Stormbringer #4 (SPOILERS)

[Yaya]

Those who liked this issue should never complain about the Sunstorm Saga again.

I hate to say it, but though it was a decent comic, the ending fell flat for me, as I found it anticlimatic. Granted, with three excellent issues, it's harder to deliver. But it could have ended stronger.

There are several sources of my disappointment. Storywise, I would have hoped for a more clever ending than what we get. What do we get? We get an ending that doesn't quite make a lot of sense.

For example, Thunderwing withstood the entire Autobot and Decepticon forces in the past, including the likes of Prime, Megatron, Omega Supreme, Trypticon, etc. and still could not be stopped. But this time around, Thunderwing falls to the combined might of the Wreckars, some Decepticons, some Centurions, and Prime with a gun at really, really, really close range. Didn't see that one coming.

(Note to self. If I ever face an uberpowerful planet destorying menace, just stand really, really, really close when firing my gun.)

And Cybertron suddenly loses its unstable, caustic enviroment in this issue because every bot and their grandmother arrives on the planet to have a nice long slugfest.

Sigh. It's not as bad as I'm making it out to be, it just doesn't stack up to the first three issues by any stretch. The ending, as in the first two War Within series, doesn't end with the bang it really should.

I even found the art weaker in this issue. The coloring was overly dark, and some of the panels were overly cluttered.

I give this issue a "C+". The series gets a "B+", exciting stuff but not quite up to par with the Sunstorm Saga, IMO. So much is at stake with that concluding issue.

But Simon, I do apologize for the "washed up" comment anyway. You have shown me, despite this issue, that you can still tell a story.

[Metal Vendetta]

I liked Sunstorm.

I liked this.

This was better than Sunstorm.

[Yaya]

I liked Sunstorm.

I liked this.

This was better than Sunstorm.

I liked both too. But I enjoyed Sunstorm more.

[BB Shockwave]

I liked Sunstorm.

I liked this.

This was better than Sunstorm.

I liked both too. But I enjoyed Sunstorm more.

Great Golly. Now I know why you sounded familiar, Yaya... you are THE Commander Shockwave! (from DW/IDW board and others)... Should have guessed sooner.

Anyway, once I read the issue, get ready for some debates!

[Metal Vendetta]

Great Golly. Now I know why you sounded familiar, Yaya... you are THE Commander Shockwave! (from DW/IDW board and others)... Should have guessed sooner.

*penny drops*

[Shanti418]

To me, the whole problem with the Sunstorm arc was that it COULD'VE been crammed into 4 issues, but instead it draggggggggggged on for 6.


I too thought the whole, "Well, we could barely defeat him with every single Autobot and Decepticon before, but THIS time we'll get Prime to shoot a big gun at him and spout a monologue" thing was ridiculous too.

[Yaya]

To me, the whole problem with the Sunstorm arc was that it COULD'VE been crammed into 4 issues, but instead it draggggggggggged on for 6.


I too thought the whole, "Well, we could barely defeat him with every single Autobot and Decepticon before, but THIS time we'll get Prime to shoot a big gun at him and spout a monologue" thing was ridiculous too.

Well, in fairness to Furman, there was some hitch with the ultra-Energon that allowed them to exhaust Thunderwing. But still, it was sort of anticlimatic.

I thought the Sunstorm Saga was better though. Sunstorm had some personality, and the story was more intriguing to me.

[snarl]

I agree the end was a bit poncy - was over too quick. They coulda maybe cut into the middle of the fight and had a few of the bots and cons scattered round, all mashed up, with flashbacks etc. I like the idea of giving the reader a bit of personal scope of trying to work out how a certain character 'bought it' off camera.

Think it would have been cool if in the middle of that monologue Prime got kicked in the tits HARD, then freaky Bludgeon came out and ran Thunderwing through with his sword or something.

If they had shown more effect on Thunderwing in the earlier issue it woulda been easier to take.

Would have liked the arc to go on a little bit longer, because the setup was great but the payload was just a bit lacking.

[spiderfrommars]

Hmm, not as good as the other issues, but I have no problem with the logic of the ending - this was a reanimated Thunderwing, powered by unstable Ultra-Energon. Having an army of Centurions pummel him was a nice idea too.

The only thing is that Prime bellowing overlong monologues whilst shooting the big bad guy doesn't impress me as much as it did when I was 11 years old...

I have to say I had trouble following the art at several points. Thunderwing's demise wasn't very explicit.

But Yaya, when will you stop going on about the Sunstorm saga?? I enjoyed it more than most, but you keep talking it up like its a pinnacle of Transformers storytelling than all other writers must aspire to match!!

And what did that story even achieve? And yet you've slated Infiltration repeatedly, but think for a moment how much it has done to establish the IDW TF mythos. You even at one point said Hearts of Steel was better than Infiltration. FFS.

[The Last Autobot]

Great Golly. Now I know why you sounded familiar, Yaya... you are THE Commander Shockwave! (from DW/IDW board and others)... Should have guessed sooner.

*penny drops*

Hasnt this been discussed already? They are really -different mother- twins separated at birth from alternate/future timelines. One christian and one muslim each with a fragment of a God medal

I liked this series a lot.

Sunstorm arc was "good" but served better as a poster with letters than a story.

[Metal Vendetta]

Great Golly. Now I know why you sounded familiar, Yaya... you are THE Commander Shockwave! (from DW/IDW board and others)... Should have guessed sooner.

*penny drops*

Hasnt this been discussed already? They are really -different mother- twins separated at birth from alternate/future timelines. One christian and one muslim each with a fragment of a God medal

Wha...?

I thought they were both Brendocon

[sprunkner]

We're all Brendocon. You, me, the whole damn forum... it's just Brendocon, talking to himself.

[Yaya]

But Yaya, when will you stop going on about the Sunstorm saga??

Because both featured unstoppable freaks of nature with hardly any personality that none could stop, that's why. Not because I think the Sunstorm Saga was some of the greatest TF work. I just feel it makes the two actually somewhat comparable.

In fact, one could add WW:Dark Ages in there too, as it also featured an unberpowerful, unstoppable freak of nature.

As far as Infiltration goes, I'm not sure what you mean. Infiltration was good, but if you think it stands as something in the realm of spectacular, I have to disagree. And if you read my posts, I said I really liked the first issue of HOS because it was as good as the first few issues of Infiltration.

So where exactly do I dog Infiltration more than it deserves?

[snarl]

Infiltration maybe was overstretched and the kids were a bit annoying at times, but it had a lot of good going for it.

HOS... was gash.

[composite word including 'f*ck'] me, it was well gash.

Agree with all who are getting pissed with the Prime Monologues.

The G2 one was good. Internal ones are. But it takes the piss a bit when he shouts it off and it is used as a dramatic shield... I'm saying this, so this is how it will be... You know where the story is going and it is a bit wanky to be honest.

Hence I'd have liked it if T Wing had booted him.

[Brendocon]

Thunderwing's defeat was a bit WTF. Foot... foot... foot... oh, what? Eh? Oh... he's... conked out? Epic...

I love the fact that the only rubbish stuff IDW have done is out of continuity.

I can let Infiltration off on the grounds of being feet-finding. If Escalation carries on with the damn cipher brats as central "characters" I may have to cry.

We're all Brendocon. You, me, the whole damn forum... it's just Brendocon, talking to himself.

It's not my fault I'm lonely.

[Best First]

Sunstorm was clunky, badly paced incosequential tedioulsy drawn out crap. with nice art.

the plot device of ultra energon being a bit funky is certainly more bearable than "oh, my protective face mask is smudged, i'll just... oh sh*t!" and TF's doing ****ING WRESTLING MOVES OMG!!!! R0XX0R!!! TEH COOL3ST!!!

"slightly lame ending" is better than "written by and for three year olds".

The notion that people who liked this should never complain about Sunstorm is like saying "Hey! you like coke! don't ever dare criticise lemonaid again! Especially becasue i like lemonaid so you have to agree with me from now on about lemonaid because, er, well mainly because i say so" - yeah, sure, bye now.

Movig away from DW crap (as we are, hooray)and onto this issue:

Good:

CARNIVAC
Razorclaw being sensible, honorble and bloody ruthless at the same time
The Wreckers being cool as smeg, especially Roabusters appluase line
The art, just... whoah.
Prime being nails
Prime being decisive
Something actually getting resolved in 4 issues
Jetfire and co actually working as scientists
Dogfight not getting killed, good deception
Broadside picking up Scoop as the leg it
Scoop!

Bad:
Ultra Energon thingy made little real sense - so essentially if they just gave him normal energon he would have ruined everyone?
Not enough red shirtage, espically after Nebulos
Prime's plan was a bit, hmm, i'll just try shooting him (evn if it looked cool)
Prime's monologue being external, internal i could have lived with
Environment thing as has been pointed out, although i ssupect warships are better tooled in terms of shields and stuff than the science vessel may have been.

Best thing was the way it all tied in with everything so far, so there is a general sense of building towards something, and knowing that this is being done by a writer and editor with a sense of purpose and direction (the Nighbeat thing really adds a new dimension as well) rather than, with DW a writer who just layers lots of mysteries on top of one another without really bothering to solve them and a, editor? what's an editor? approach to long term plotting.

TF comics are in a good place right now.

[Brendocon]

Ultra Energon thingy made little real sense - so essentially if they just gave him normal energon he would have ruined everyone?

But maybe have been more succeptable to being ruined himself, I think... I'm not sure.

Didn't quite get the Earth thing. Shockwave laced multiple planets? Therefore they need to go to Earth? Eh? Eh.

Still makes more sense than whatever the hell was going on in DW.

Prime's plan was a bit, hmm, i'll just try shooting him (evn if it looked cool)
Prime's monologue being external, internal i could have lived with

Internal: "Here I stand, back at the scene, reliving it... facing up to my past."
External: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRHGGGHHHHHH!"

How anybody can concentrate on shooting The Robo Hulk whilst spewing that is a mystery to me...

Definitely shows through that it's all been written by one person to an actual goal point.

[Best First]

Didn't quite get the Earth thing. Shockwave laced multiple planets? Therefore they need to go to Earth? Eh? Eh.

i think... i think Shockers intended to seed multiple planets, but started with Earth, and got mugwumped by the Dino's - so earth is the only source.

if thats the case probably should have been more explicit.

Prime screaming his head off at T-Dub whilst thinking flowery poetry would have been ace.

Internal: I wander over field and hill...
External: You Want some? You ****ing want some? Oh you want some too, mother ****er? ARRRRRGGGHHHHHHH

Bah. Ok ending to great build up is overall a bit vexing, even if it plays into the grander scheme well.

Was kind of glad twin twist wasn't dead, but can't help but feel that he should have been.

[spiderfrommars]

Infiltration was good, but if you think it stands as something in the realm of spectacular, I have to disagree.

No, I'm saying it achieved a lot and had clear goals. Sunstorm arc achieved [composite word including 'f*ck'] all.

So where exactly do I dog Infiltration more than it deserves?

Oooh, I dunno. Maybe here?

"I want to believe that after six-issues of story, that something worthwhile, something groundbreaking would have happened.

I want to believe that Simon's decades-long bag of storytelling tricks can never end.

But after turning that last page, I am left a doubter. I am left unimpressed."

In fact, read the whole thread, where a lot of people talk sense, and you start going on about Sunstorm again.

http://transfans.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5589

And if you read my posts, I said I really liked the first issue of HOS because it was as good as the first few issues of Infiltration.

I did read them, wouldn't miss 'em for the world. At HOS 2 you said you were enjoying it more than Infiltration.

Ultra Energon thingy made little real sense - so essentially if they just gave him normal energon he would have ruined everyone?

Maybe there was no other way to bring him back?

[Yaya]

In fact, read the whole thread, where a lot of people talk sense, and you start going on about Sunstorm again.

Oh, you mean when I said, "We are left with most plot lines open at series end, a strategy much akin to the Sunstorm Saga and its failure to achieve sufficient closure.

Yeah, that sounds like real praise of the Sunstorm Saga.

Regarding Infiltration, I gave it a "B-" if you check my review. Which means pretty good, but not great. It would seem some who love Simon get a little peeved when someone prefers McDonough in some instances. I did enjoy the Sunstorm arc more. Why? Because I thought the characterization was well done, the mystery element was there, we got some kickass fights like Predaking vs. Bruticus and Sunstorm vs. Jetfire (I don't watch wrestling, so I had no clue). And of course, the art was top notch. I recognize its faults, but still enjoyed it.

At HOS 2 you said you were enjoying it more than Infiltration

I was. Until all went to ****. [/quote]

[Best First]

Predaking vs Bruticus wasn't part of the sunstorm arc.

[spiderfrommars]

Oh, you mean when I said, "We are left with most plot lines open at series end, a strategy much akin to the Sunstorm Saga and its failure to achieve sufficient closure.

The Sunstorm arc had no strategy!

the characterization was well done

Quoting tech specs word for word is characterisation?

the mystery element was there

So many mysteries it became difficult to care anymore.

we got some kickass fights

Oh, well thats ok then.

One of which ended in the most stupid ways imaginable too.

[Brendocon]

Lots of flashy fight scenes instead of actual plot is the comic equivalent of spending your wage budget on sports cars.

What?

Oh.

[Best First]

I think the thing that I have the most problems with Sbringer is… I really don’t see why T-Dub was that much of a threat.

OK, he had an outer shell.

Which as far as I can gather was made up of living tissue, culled from other transformers.

So in essence he is a TF wearing a suit made from other TF’s, right?

And also, you can’t interface with without going nuts… for some reason.

So, why is he so all powerfull? I mean not only is he seemingly super impervious, but he also has seemingly enhanced strength and massively powerful weaponry. How would that be the case when he is essentially just wearing skin sown together from, say Backstreet, Ramjet, Wingspan and Bluetstreak?

Am I missing something?

I like the story that results from him being super dooper, but I don’t really see why he was super dooper in the first place.

[BB Shockwave]

Great, I really want to add my point and I still haven't read the issue...

Good:

CARNIVAC

Really? Coooollll...

But to add to the Sunstorm comparisons... To me, the worst thing in that story arc was that Sunstorm was spouting religious nonsense for 6 issues, and when he died... we weren't a mile closer as to what the heck he was babbling about!

Also there was some truly bad characterisation there...

I mean... Starscream is on Earth, and suddenly his 'brother', all powerfull and mighty, comes for him. Not to kill him, but to help him. And Starscream? He runs from him, tries to kill him! Wouldn't SS, you know, tap Sunstorm on the shoulder and say "Yo, bro, I'd be reaaal glad to visit that strange glowing energon pool, but first, would you mind helping me dispose of some folk?" ... and producing a death list of all the Bots/Cons he hates... Now that's what I called bad writing, and I elaborated that at the DW board back then as well.

Another bad points include the destruction of the Ark for only shock value, killing off Jetfire, and numerous others... (also the pointless, stupid storytelling method of Brad Mick, in which each issue starts 'in medias res' and they explain later what happened between the stuff he left out. Again, for pure shock value only.

Yeah, I know, I don't like Mad Brick. I cannot forgive him what he did to Shockwave in War and Piece and to Carnivac in MTMTE

[Yaya]

Well, if IDW released the Sunstorm Saga in TPB, I'd buy it. Yes, I like it enough to buy it again.

I mean, if we want to get really nitpicky, you could find equal flaws in Stormbringer. As Best First says, we never really came to find out why Thunderwing was so powerful that a planet of Transformers couldn't stop him. At least with Sunstorm, he had received some special enhancement from Vector Sigma and ?elementum(or whatever it was called).

It depends how forgiving you want to be when reading these stories, and what your cup of tea is.

The Sunstorm Saga, for it's flaws, was not anywhere near as bad as others say it was, IMO.

I don't follow a "I like DW, therefore cannot like IDW" mentality, nor do I follow a "I like McDonough, so I cannot like Furman" thought process.

[spiderfrommars]

I think the thing that I have the most problems with Sbringer is… I really don’t see why T-Dub was that much of a threat.

OK, he had an outer shell.

Which as far as I can gather was made up of living tissue, culled from other transformers.

So in essence he is a TF wearing a suit made from other TF’s, right?

And also, you can’t interface with without going nuts… for some reason.

So, why is he so all powerfull? I mean not only is he seemingly super impervious, but he also has seemingly enhanced strength and massively powerful weaponry. How would that be the case when he is essentially just wearing skin sown together from, say Backstreet, Ramjet, Wingspan and Bluetstreak?

Am I missing something?

I like the story that results from him being super dooper, but I don’t really see why he was super dooper in the first place.

I believe TW cocked up the process. Big stylee.

It also fecked Bludgeon up, in a different fashion.

Well, if IDW released the Sunstorm Saga in TPB, I'd buy it.

Don't worry, they will.

It depends how forgiving you want to be when reading these stories, and what your cup of tea is.

Could be.

[Ozz]

I don't follow a "I like DW, therefore cannot like IDW" mentality, nor do I follow a "I like McDonough, so I cannot like Furman" thought process.

Who does think like that?

And more importantly, how is that different than "if you liked Stormbringer, you shouldn't complain about Sunstorm"?

[Best First]

I mean, if we want to get really nitpicky, you could find equal flaws in Stormbringer.

why equal? Sbringer didn't have any idiotic child writteen characterusation that i recall, nor embarressing attempts at comedy, nor was it massively drawn out for no apparent reason, nor was it utterly devoid of resolution.

At least with Sunstorm, he had received some special enhancement from Vector Sigma and ?elementum(or whatever it was called).

mmmm, far better. "some special enhancement". wow, cleared things right up.

I don't follow a "I like DW, therefore cannot like IDW" mentality, nor do I follow a "I like McDonough, so I cannot like Furman" thought process.

and, who exactly, are you implying does? same old ****...

[Brendocon]

I think the thing that I have the most problems with Sbringer is… I really don’t see why T-Dub was that much of a threat.

OK, he had an outer shell.

Which as far as I can gather was made up of living tissue, culled from other transformers.

So in essence he is a TF wearing a suit made from other TF’s, right?

And also, you can’t interface with without going nuts… for some reason.

Psychic backlash I think was the term used for what it did to Bludgeon...

I'm not sure the tissue was culled from TFs... I got the impression it was gathered from more "organic" lifeforms. Basically he Frankensteined himself... I think the shell might, to some degree, have been alive itself...

Having just re-read The Ultimates, I'm tempted to make a Banner/Hulk comparison.

So, why is he so all powerfull? I mean not only is he seemingly super impervious, but he also has seemingly enhanced strength and massively powerful weaponry.

I think that may have been the point of it. "I'm going to make a super suit! And it'll be full of organic stuff to help me survive the fact that Cybertron's slowly fecked! And have lots of big guns. Oh, whoops, I've gone a bit crazy."

I think we may need some Furmo clarification...