Stormbringer #1 (SPOLIERS)

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:30 pm

IMO he has control over his emotions more than most TFs, but still has them, not that he would admit it ("emotions say otherwise").

He's partial to going a bit mental especially where humans are concerned.

Aardvark wrote:
Anyway I was only saying you could, I didn't say I would...

Only after you edited it.

Aardvark · Post by **Aardvark** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:39 pm

But I had edited before I saw your reply

He certainly could get annoyed but he never had any "real" feeling towards anyone and he was quite "cold". I don't think he even hated Megatron, he was rather...eh... civil towards Megs in the early US stories after taking command.

But don't mind me, I'm still pretty out of it

Edit: I don't like this thread anymore; I've tarnished the good name Aardvark

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:44 pm

Well it wasn't 'Aard to do.

There ya go, I'm tarnished too now...

*on topic*

Anyone else not received their copy from oneshallstand?

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:01 pm

KingMob wrote:
Yaya wrote:Actually never really followed the cartoon, but I did kind of like that idea of the Autobots being workers and the Decepticons being warriors. I like it much more than the whole Primus/Unicron thing.
Yeah? Not too keen myself; a little too much like predestination to me.
Seems like it takes away a lot of drama and emotional content from the idea of a civil war, both on a larger scale but perhaps more importantly, on a smaller, more personal scale...referring to the personal motivations of individual characters here.
If someone was always and is always going to be a Good Guy or a Bad Guy and has absolutely no chance to change, who cares what their reasoning for their behaviour is, or even what tehy think about events? They're simply going to be responding to stimuli based on a narrower set of choices, of which morality and ethics have been drained of meaning. Carrying out rote roles that have no higher purpose other than executing predetermined objectives.
Execute {Evi}l Plan 42 to Gain Energy to Build Planetary Dreadnought. Counter with {Noble} Action 69 to stop the Other Ones.
Except 'evil' and 'noble' barely mean anything and you fight each other because You Are Of the Other and Not One of Us and nothing else.
Oh, we're back to robots and programming. Intended to be that or not, is it fair to evaluate them according to what that means to a human?

The Transformers may look like robots to humans, but they are aliens first, no? I think of them as aliens before robots. Metallic mechanical aliens, to be sure, but that doesn't make them analogous to our conception of robitcs...and now I end up repeating a point made by BF and Karl and Rebis...

...

Also, the idea of a god being involved and also not particualrly giving a toss about the individual lives of his 'children' makes warfare, esp civil warfare, more gim and gritty for me. The god doesn't actually have to show up for that to work, but it was pretty powerful when Primus turned up and sent everyone to die, no? But also doesn't work that often.

So a compromise state is desirable, yes - and that atmosphere is one that seems present in Stormbringer, with the characteristic moment of Jetfire looking for a scientific explanation for the apparitional qulaity of his menacers, and other moments.

Hopefully it will continue. And we won't find out that Thunderwing was originally designed to turn into an axe and Jetfire a saucepan.

I pretty much agree with everything you say above.

Some might have misconstrued that I don't like my Transformers to have an emotional side, but that's not the case. I like a balance, and I too think this first issue of Stormbringer achieves that. The problem for me arises when Simon goes overboard. For example, remember in Age of Wrath when Grimlock "died" protecting Magnus, and Magnus had this out-of-character crying-to-the-sky breakdown? I mean, you could almost see the tears streaming down his face. Now, if Magnus is the ultimate soldier, we just shouldn't be seeing that. That's called "going overboard" emotionally.

Furman needs to rein that tendency in. Its okay to display emotions but don't detract from the mechanical nature of the characters either.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:59 pm

Yaya wrote:Some might have misconstrued that I don't like my Transformers to have an emotional side, but that's not the case. I like a balance, and I too think this first issue of Stormbringer achieves that. The problem for me arises when Simon goes overboard. For example, remember in Age of Wrath when Grimlock "died" protecting Magnus, and Magnus had this out-of-character crying-to-the-sky breakdown? I mean, you could almost see the tears streaming down his face. Now, if Magnus is the ultimate soldier, we just shouldn't be seeing that. That's called "going overboard" emotionally.

See, here is where you make a valid point about your gripes concerning Furman's writing style....

Furman needs to rein that tendency in. Its okay to display emotions but don't detract from the mechanical nature of the characters either.

And here is where you ruin it. Where you could say, "Simon needs to write less melodramatic characters," or "Magnus is the ultimate soldier, so that's out of character for him (He seemed like quite the whiny pansy in TF:TM to me)", you say, "Magnus is a robot, so therefore his emotional reactions must be limited and mechanical"

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:45 pm

Shanti418 wrote: And here is where you ruin it. Where you could say, "Simon needs to write less melodramatic characters," or "Magnus is the ultimate soldier, so that's out of character for him (He seemed like quite the whiny pansy in TF:TM to me)", you say, "Magnus is a robot, so therefore his emotional reactions must be limited and mechanical"

I shouldn't have to do a double take to make sure there weren't tears flowing from Magnus' optical sockets.

I like when terminology like kliks, vorns, chasis, sparks, cerebrocircuitry, programming, etc. are used to stress the mechanical nature of these beings. Emotions are necessary or we would be reading about a bunch of television sets and microwaves on legs. But stress the mechanical nature more to balance things is all I'm saying.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:41 pm

emotions - mental attribute.
mechanical - pyshical attribute.
correlation - negative.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:03 pm

Best First wrote:emotions - mental attribute.
mechanical - pyshical attribute.
correlation - negative.

Omega Supreme? Is that you?

Now there's a mechanical bot for ya!

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:28 am

Yaya wrote:
Best First wrote:emotions - mental attribute.
mechanical - pyshical attribute.
correlation - negative.
Omega Supreme? Is that you?

Now there's a mechanical bot for ya!

Heh, yes. Although even Omega Supreme's monosyllabic speech and monodominant terminology is a result of emotional reasoning, as succinctly explained by his original profile:

His fellow Autobots consider him serious, even grim, but those with insight know the reason why: the enormity of the responsibility placed on Omega Supreme. He knows that should he fall in battle, chances are there will be no other Autobots left by that point to take over his role. His is a situation Omega Supreme finds both challenging and chilling. He would have it no other way.

He uses terminology that reflects both his military nature, his precision and desire for perfection in personal performance...values built on a foundation of full knowledge that he simply cannot and must not let his people down.
Not quite the unthinking 'positive/negative' automaton-brute he is sometimes made out to be.
A simple character sketch, but an effective one. And anything that results in memorable dialogue is a good thing IMHO.

Think we may have a little too much expectation built upon preconcieved notions derived from looks/'accent' here? Bit of a dodgy approach. There is more than meets the eye where the Transformers are concerned, after all...

Have to agree on the Magnus screaming being cheesy as all get out, but I'm not sure I'd concur that it was tremendously out of character - even if we didn't know about Magnus from other contexts, there's enough material in the earlier scenes with him in the story that shore up his response. If anything, I think the artist perhaps caused the lion's share of the problems there with his depiction of Magnus in full-on KHAAAAAN mode.
Unless Furman actually wrote "Magnus channels the Shat, from the cheesiest 'I just lost my partner and he only had 1 day until retirement' angle you can come up with please" of course.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:03 pm

Yaya wrote:
Best First wrote:emotions - mental attribute.
mechanical - pyshical attribute.
correlation - negative.
Omega Supreme? Is that you?

Now there's a mechanical bot for ya!

Flamefeather? Is that you?

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:55 pm

Best First wrote:
Yaya wrote:
Best First wrote:emotions - mental attribute.
mechanical - pyshical attribute.
correlation - negative.
Omega Supreme? Is that you?

Now there's a mechanical bot for ya!
Flamefeather? Is that you?

Cindersaur, actually.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:01 pm

Shall we just call you Cindy?

Post by **Best First** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:13 pm

Or maybe Susan Hoffman.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:40 pm

I think when it looks like Magnus cries its more artistic license then anything at that point.

In regards to his emotional state at the time - Hes a caring indvidual, so why not...

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:26 pm

Stormbringer #1 SOLD OUT!!!!!

Yes!

http://comicnewsi.com/article.php?catid=208&itemid=8847

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:34 pm

Whew, what did I miss... well I'm getting to old and tired for these late night discussions.

May I just butt in, and note that no matter how much I'd like it - seeing as he's my second favourite Con - that purple guy in Bludgeon's cult with the fangs around his head is not Carnivac but Iguanus.

Explanation - 1. his colors are pink and dark purple - Carnivac's are pink, blue and gold.
2. he has two wheels on his back - Iguanus turned into a motorcycle
3. since all the other followers, save Bludgeon, are 1988 'humanoid' (monstroid, more like) Pretenders like Skullgrin, Finback, Bugly, Bomb-Burst, it'd be more logical that he is one of these, not a pretender beast...

Back on topic - I think it's too early to discuss whether religion will even come to play. Bludgeon might worships Thunderwing, but we don't know whatever did TW do to gain such status - he could have made what he did with scientific means, not magic/mysticism.

If you read the preview to #2 - I really like the 'battle damaged' armor on Bludgeon, especially the lack of a face, which makes him as creepy as if he was still a robotic skeleton under that armor. In fact, his brown inner robot reminds me of the generic robots and the empties in Budiansky's early stories.

Plus, I really didn't see it coming - Furman using the word Primacron (one of the most insipid ideas in the cartoon). But it makes perfect sense, that Jetfire, a being of reason would believe in a scientist creator who's physically existent, not a supreme god-like being like Primus.

Post by **Best First** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:21 pm

BB Shockwave wrote:
May I just butt in, and note that no matter how much I'd like it - seeing as he's my second favourite Con - that purple guy in Bludgeon's cult with the fangs around his head is not Carnivac but Iguanus.

Explanation - 1. his colors are pink and dark purple - Carnivac's are pink, blue and gold.
2. he has two wheels on his back - Iguanus turned into a motorcycle
3. since all the other followers, save Bludgeon, are 1988 'humanoid' (monstroid, more like) Pretenders like Skullgrin, Finback, Bugly, Bomb-Burst, it'd be more logical that he is one of these, not a pretender beast...

i was kind of thinking/hoping that was the case, although Bludgeon's presence made/makes me unsure.

good news about the sell out.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:35 pm

Yeah, I hope too that when/if we'll see Carny, he'll be a bit more then a background character.

Amongst the IDW news, I'm most interested in the Six-Shot mini... It'll be interesting to see how Simon handles a character he never wrote for before. I was kinda sad that there are more Bot one-shots then Cons. How many will there be alltogether?

inflatable dalek · Post by **inflatable dalek** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:18 pm

Legion wrote:Ugh.. i hate to site this... but the V'Ger machine from StarTrek:TMP gained sentience and asked "Is this all that I am? Is there nothing more?" and to try to seek answers to these questions it went about trying to find it's creator.

As a random aside, the "Planet of the machine people" Spock sees a hologram of whilst on his trip looks allmost exactly like Cybertron, and Robo-Ilyria has a TF like voice. Endless cross-over fanfic (or even an Evolutions...) potential there. Not to mention that A Rage In Heaven rather shamelessly nicks the end of the first Trek film (except that Prime, unlike Decker, is returned after merging...)

As for the Formies and religion- Charecters like Bludgeon, Mindwipe Bugly and ActionMasterNinjabloke have long standing spiritual leanings, so it makes sense for them to believe in Gods or dark forces (I'd even include Prime in that group, as his role as Matrix carrier makes him a sort of President and Pope combined). Peeps like Perceptor and Jetfire on the other hand would most likely be trying to find a scientific explanation for everything even if Primus came round for afternoon tea. In the end, like us they all believe a variety of different things, which is fine by me.

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:43 am

BB Shockwave wrote: May I just butt in, and note that no matter how much I'd like it - seeing as he's my second favourite Con - that purple guy in Bludgeon's cult with the fangs around his head is not Carnivac but Iguanus.

*ding ding!*

we hath a winner :P

it is indeed iguanus not carnivac

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:50 am

inflatable dalek wrote:As for the Formies and religion- Charecters like Bludgeon, Mindwipe Bugly and ActionMasterNinjabloke have long standing spiritual leanings, so it makes sense for them to believe in Gods or dark forces (I'd even include Prime in that group, as his role as Matrix carrier makes him a sort of President and Pope combined). Peeps like Perceptor and Jetfire on the other hand would most likely be trying to find a scientific explanation for everything even if Primus came round for afternoon tea. In the end, like us they all believe a variety of different things, which is fine by me.

http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20060804.html

inflatable dalek · Post by **inflatable dalek** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:53 am

See, even the internet agrees with me!

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:01 pm

Josh wrote:
BB Shockwave wrote: May I just butt in, and note that no matter how much I'd like it - seeing as he's my second favourite Con - that purple guy in Bludgeon's cult with the fangs around his head is not Carnivac but Iguanus.

*ding ding!*

we hath a winner :P

it is indeed iguanus not carnivac

Thanks Josh! I do hope Carny turns up at some future issue, though...