Rate 'War and Peace'!

[spiderfrommars]

No not the Tolstoy novel, but the Dreamwave 'epic'. IDW have seen fit to reprint it. Is it a classic? A step in the right direction for Dreamwave's G1? Or quite the opposite?

[Legion]

It's OK, it had some interesting ideas (not all of which were original, granted) going on behind the scenes, but i think the artwork and script really let those ideas down badly. What we're left with is a Pat Lee wank-a-thon... It tries to squeeze far too much dialogue and plot into too short a space and as a result, the story seems to lurch from one point to another rather ackwardly.
It was good to see some characterisation from characters other than Megs and Prime too. But the ending was the real let down, why? I'm not referring to the "Shockwave did it!" factor, but the whole not really giving any closure apart from Shockers (apparant) death... don't even get me started on the Prime/Magnus relationship...

Not really a classic in my opinion, but probably the best of the (admittedly limited) DW G1 crop...

[Metal Vendetta]

Not really a classic in my opinion, but probably the best of the (admittedly limited) DW G1 crop...

I disagree, I think that Sunstorm is a more coherent and well-rounded (if a little stretched) plot, while War and Peace was a jumbled and confusing mess. One minute Shockers is in charge and everyone is happy, the next there are Autobot splinter groups everywhere. Ultra Magnus is a complete gimp for 5 issues, he must be deaf, dumb and blind not to realise what's going on, and then he shoots Grimlock in the face...they do a half-hearted Wreckers tribute then kill off Roadbuster and Whirl two panels later, as well as the Omnibots - and it's too convenient how all the dead characters get killed by unpopular subgroups. Starscream killing off Reflector was pointless and a missed opportunity (imagine if he'd just killed two of them, it would have made for some great writing as the remaining one tries to come to terms with it). The Earth modes everyone has are stupid and largely unexplained...I could go on, but this is really just a car wreck of a series. At least Sunstorm had a little consistency.

[Best First]

yeah, nothing happened for 6 issues.

i'd err towards the embaressment angle myself - it's just not a good comic, rather its highly produced fanwank.

[Legion]

I could go on, but this is really just a car wreck of a series.

Totally agree, the plot is in tatters, losely held together with a few ideas, but you're right, it is quite inconsistant.

At least Sunstorm had a little consistency.

Yeah a bit, certainly feels more consistant than War and Peace, but there is something about the whole Sunstorm arc that just really annoys me, i can't quite put my finger on it. The Sunstorm arc also has the benefit of far superior artwork, which makes the story telling seem a lot better, the pacing is certainly slower, they weren't trying to cram as much into the ongoing as they did V2, so that makes it seem more consistant too. But whether it's actually better or not, i really wouldn't like to say to be honest.
War and Peace is trying to be different, and for that i will give it a bit of credit. It fails miserably of course for numerous reasons (all of the points you raise for instance are very valid points).
Might just have to chalk this down to personal preference until i can explain my feelings on this one (which might involve having to re-read said stories *shudder*)

rather its highly produced fanwank.

yes, that is probably a good way of describing most of DW's TF output to be honest tho...
actually, i've read much better fanwank than most of DW's TF output...

[Best First]

artwirk aside i see very little that distinguishes the two arcs in terms of quality, both ultimately lack resolution and there is a fairly equal amount of stupidity in terms of forcing the plot in the direction the writers want it to go and bad sci fi in abundance in both.

equally both has the occasional enjoyable character flourish.

however overall i'd have top say that i prefer war and pece because at least something happens of seeming consequence, the whole of teh Sunstorm saga feels like an issue 0, with nothing but tease and innuendo as to what the **** is going on. I know there is plenty of this in W & P as well but at least we get insight into what has been happening on Cybertron and what Shockers has been up to and we get the pottered origin (as crap as it is).

I don't like W & P at all but at least it gives me something to dislike, the sunstorm 'saga' is pretty much just a bunch of fight scenes strung together with no real plot driver other than 'ooh, he's mad and dead powerful...for...some...reason'.

its all pretty shee-ite mind.

[Yaya]

I thoroughly enjoyed War and Peace for several reasons:

1. It moved away from Prime and Megs and focused on Magnus and Shockwave for a change
2. It introduced the idea that life went on on Cybertron after the Ark left, and not just with Shockers twidling his thumbs waiting for Megs orders
3. Despite the megahuge cast, somehow there were plentiful moments of individual characterization


However, I do understand the gripes mentioned above, particularly with the art and with the lack of sufficient closure.

Also, I am in the process of watching the cartoon series for the first time, and I see now how many feel elements were ripped off straight from the cartoon, particulary from the "Key to Vector Sigma" episodes. The whole Alpha Trion-key to Vector Sigma thing was new to me when I read the comic. I think if you are a fan who has watched the cartoon, then some of the War and Peace story will come across as stale.

[Denyer]

2. It introduced the idea that life went on on Cybertron after the Ark left, and not just with Shockers twidling his thumbs waiting for Megs orders

There were around ten years of comics working from the same premise.

It's only new to people who know very little about Transformers. Which I think sadly applies to most Dreamwave material -- those who half-remember the movie wouldn't have been so pissed off at having scenes badly paraphrased back to them, for example.

[Metal Vendetta]

2. It introduced the idea that life went on on Cybertron after the Ark left, and not just with Shockers twidling his thumbs waiting for Megs orders

Uh, on the contrary, didn't it introduce the concept that when Megs and Prime left, everyone had a kip for a few million years?

[Yaya]

There were around ten years of comics working from the same premise.

Those privileged to have access to the UK Marvel TF comics benefited from this, but not in the US. In the US, we had issue #17 and #18 (two of the greatest comics ever) with Blaster, Straxus, and the gang, and that was it for a loooong time.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

Edge of Extinction? etc...?

[Denyer]

Those privileged to have access to the UK Marvel TF comics benefited from this

The entire later part of the US comic is based on the war having continued in a guerilla fashion under Xaaron (one of the instances in which UK characters were brought across to the Marvel US title, if I'm remembering correctly.)

But yeah -- I'd say not knowing about roughly half the original-era TF comics material out there classes as knowing very little. We're all ignorant about some stuff -- although my Japanese gaps are slowly being filled by the translations I get sent to put up.

[Best First]

even in terms of just the Return to Cybertron and Headmasters arcs ist clear lots hs goenm on on Cybertron since Megs and Prime left.

Focus on Magnus and Shockers is hardly new either - focus on Gears and Frenzy might be cause to pay attanetion gut 2 big characters getting squeezed out by 2 other big characters isn't really a reason to sit up and pay attention.

The megahuge cast woekred well for the fisrt issue, when the number of TFs doubled, but a few issues later if anything they did a very good job of making Cybertron feel empty IMO.

[Yaya]

but a few issues later if anything they did a very good job of making Cybertron feel empty IMO.

Yeah, I think they could have at least added a few scenes of Shockwave making speeches to throngs of bots from his citadel or something, like that scene with Saurumon in the Two Towers.

[sprunkner]

I dunno... I thought W&P was the best of the two. Sunstorm left me very cold and very confused. True, there was too much story, and pilfered story at that. But some of the "high concept" was great-- the Big Shutdown, the scenes of Ultra Magnus arresting other Autobots, etc... Sunstorm seemed like a long excuse for a long slugfest.

W&P was the only piece of DW output, except Worlds Collide, to leave me with that "gosh-wow-we've-just-had-a-cosmic-adventure" feeling. I look back on it now and I can see the flaws, but at the time, it was at least a push in the right direction.

DW's biggest mistake was in trying to rewrite all TF continuity while keeping familiar elements. As a result, they kept writing stories in territory we had all seen before. I mean, I loved Worlds Collide, but it was such a Furman rehash: Galvatron shows up and is unbeatable. Then Unicron shows up, too. W&P was a great amalgam in that sense, mixing together "The Key To Vector Sigma," "The New Order," "Surrender" and a dozen other stories.

Infiltration kicks the entire DW canon's @$$ six ways from Tuesday.

[Shanti418]

I have to agree with Yaya and Sprunkner. It's not the best, but when compared to G1 Vol 1. and the Sunstorm Arc, it was a lot better. Vol. 1, as well all know, is kind of like the crap they feed you at the cafeteria in elementary school: disgusting, but you're starving, so you ate it.
I thought Sunstorm was too similar to the main guy whose name escapes me right now that is the catalyst for WW Vol. 2. And the story didn't really go anywhere.
I think, at its face value, the idea of "During Ops and Megs sojurn to Earth, Shockwave has orchestrated a mock peace by seducing Magnus, and the return of the old leaders causes much havoc to ensue," is a good one. Yes, they f***** it up, but at least they started with something good. "Army gets ahold of Deceps only to find out they can't control them?" Yawn. "Seeker talks crazy and has lots of powers?" Been there, done that.

[Legion]

focus on Gears and Frenzy might be cause to pay attanetion

now that would be great!

[Impactor returns 2.0]

its like operation volcano or blaster and the yellow guy losing his arm, they hang around on cybertron with all the other dead beats and even go to a pub - makes cybertron feel busy.