Life in the Matrix

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:10 am

When a TF ceases to exist, does his spark go to the matrix? in a heaven'ish way?

If it does, how aware is the matrix holder ofall these different personalites.

What if u dont get destroyed on cybertron?

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:17 am

I think the Matrix is beyond our common conventions of time-space. So it doesn't matter where you die. Except if you die in Unicron, then he'll take yer soul.

Also, since the Matrix is all Primus, since all of the TF are parts of his whole, it would be logical that the sence of self change into Primus. And Primus hence get all of their memories. I'd say there's still a limited sence of the different personalities.

Stormwolf · Post by **Stormwolf** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:00 am

They are stored with Primus until repainted bodies become available

jboyler · Post by **jboyler** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:52 pm

Go read "God-Emperor of Dune." It has a really good example of a character with the memories of multiple past lives.

-J

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:24 pm

Yes, it was a good book.

I always like to think that 'sparks' go rejoin Primus in some sort of a TF 'heaven' - but those who still have strong ties to the material world can be brought back. Like Prime and his countless deaths and rebirths.

Interesting question - whatever happens to Nebulans? They are not Transformers, but their minds (well with Headmasters at least) is linked to their TF counterpart, uniting mind and soul.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:01 pm

Good point - is Spike in the Matrix post-G2? Most of the fleshy companions just seemed to get forgotten about.

Personally I think the idea of heaven for TFs is kind of silly, just like it is for real people. But then TFs have a genuine god who actually exists in their universe and we´ve seen in BW that when they die their sparks (not souls, please) do join the Allspark "where all are one". But does that mean that, say, Ramjet ends up in the same place as Bumblebee? Is there a karmic element to the selection process? Also, what the hell is Jn´wan or wherever all the "Legends" went? Was that ever explained by Mr. F?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:36 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:Good point - is Spike in the Matrix post-G2? Most of the fleshy companions just seemed to get forgotten about.

What about Buster? He held the Matrix for a time, and he even managed to perform a few feats with it! Won't he end up in there too?

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:17 pm

Well, if it'd be LOTR, he would - where everyone who held the Ring even for a short time eventually travelled over the sea...

But I think not. Though, we don't even know what happened to Buster. We last saw him in the story where Carnivac and Snarler hunt Spike, methinks.

I agree that TF's don't have a 'heaven' or especially hell, since Unicron is not the Devil. heck, he's not even in any relation with the TFs other then that they are the sons of his mortal enemy. That's why I found the whole 'Pit' concept of BW quite annoying.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:46 pm

I don' think the Pit is supposed to be hell for TFs, ti's a POV thing:

- The Pit and the Matrix are physical facilities on Cybertron (well the Pit is probably on the main Moon the Preds live on) where Predacon and Maximal protoforms are made. They both are really just links to the Allspark where all TF life comes from.

Basically, I think the Pit and Matrix are really the saem place, like how differant religions all have their own names for Heaven, God, Hell, but they're really all the same things.

Maximals only refer to the Pit as a bad place due to their differences with the Preds, it likely is the same place as the Matrix, they just don't realize it.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:55 am

ShadowSonic wrote:Maximals only refer to the Pit as a bad place due to their differences with the Preds, it likely is the same place as the Matrix, they just don't realize it.

Oh, i don't think it's a case of them not realising it, i mean after all, most transformers know (i would think) that the matrix is the only way of creating new TF life. I think it's a case of choosing to not recognise it as the same thing, a way of distancing themselves from the Preds...

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:41 pm

ShadowSonic wrote:I don' think the Pit is supposed to be hell for TFs, ti's a POV thing:

- The Pit and the Matrix are physical facilities on Cybertron (well the Pit is probably on the main Moon the Preds live on) where Predacon and Maximal protoforms are made. They both are really just links to the Allspark where all TF life comes from.

Umm, and where was this ever stated on the show?

I honestly doubt that life comes from the Matrix in the BW era- After all, the great war is over, and there should be plenty of TFs on Cybertron.

Besides, we never ever found out what happened to G1 OP in BW, and there is not even a hint of a new Prime existing, thus we can assume the Matrix was either lost or destroyed. Or, if we take the G1 cartoon as precursor, the Matrix was used up to cure the hate-plague.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:29 pm

BB Shockwave wrote: Umm, and where was this ever stated on the show?

I honestly doubt that life comes from the Matrix in the BW era- After all, the great war is over, and there should be plenty of TFs on Cybertron.

Besides, we never ever found out what happened to G1 OP in BW, and there is not even a hint of a new Prime existing, thus we can assume the Matrix was either lost or destroyed. Or, if we take the G1 cartoon as precursor, the Matrix was used up to cure the hate-plague.

Bob and Larry said so (about the Matrix/Pit facilities)

The Matrix they describe is different from the Creation Matrix/MoL, this Matrix is a physical location, like a temple or something, it's just called "The Matrix". It's where all the new Maximal/Predacon Protoforms come from/came from. Probably was built in synch with the Maximal/Predacon upgrade.

Remember, the Maximals/PRedacons aren't all just Autobot and Decepticons in new bodies, they're entirely new guys.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:05 pm

Umm, so the Matrix is the assembly line? Frankly I don't like the idea (plus, even during BW, events contradict this, like Rhinox getting OP back from the Matrix). I guess they wrote this before season 2.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:11 pm

Rhinox's comment amkes sense if you include Beast Machines in the statement. The "Matrix" and "Pit" are physical locations where protoforms are made, but they are, in truth, simply gateways into the Matrix Zone (That's what Rhinox meant), or "Allspark" which is where ALL TF life, Bot or Con or Pred or Maxies or Cybertron or Destron, came from, comes from and will come from.

It's confusing, ain't it?

But heck, at least they explained this and didn't leave it open-ended like the G1 Comic did, which led to ideas like the Matrix Flame being the source of all TF life after Prime left, even though there's no evidence it ever did anything other than stay lit as long as the Creation Matrix was in existence.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:12 pm

But the Flame could somehow transfer the Matrix's power, otherwise how could Ultra Magnus have been created? I think it was a 'charged' thing, due to the distance of the Matrix from Cybertron, they propably had to wait vorns to charge it enough to give one TF life. That's why there were so much expectation towards Magnus.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:32 pm

Ultra Magnus was a recent creation? I always assumed he was an older TF who just had been in space or something and returned. Blurr and Hot Rod were created just prior to Prime's departure (Blurr says he 4 million years old) so he used the Matrix on them. Magnus acts and seems "older" than either of them so I figured he was around before, just was away or something but was famous for whatever he did before, that's why the Resistance put so muhc faith in him.

So the Flame didn't create him, it's just some religious thingy they pray to.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:58 pm

Nah, Magnus was given life from the flame.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:21 am

spiderfrommars wrote:Nah, Magnus was given life from the flame.

As documented here:

http://transfans.tfarchive3.com/popup.php?id=750

Oh, and the Matrix/Matrix Flame was not 'the only source' of TF life in the comics.

G2 budding aside (which wouldn't be discounted from Matrix-sourcing, btw, as the parent could have been either born of Matrix or budded from one who was, ad infinitum), Aerialbots over America shows that the Aerialbots were created and alive, but it wasn't until Heavy Traffic that the others aside from Silverbolt received their programming from the Matrix.

So similarly, Ultra Magnus could have been created and been up and about, but wasn't ready to join the Autobot cause until he'd been imbued by the Matrix Flame, which could be seen as being some sort of educational facility.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:27 pm

Rebis wrote:G2 budding aside (which wouldn't be discounted from Matrix-sourcing, btw, as the parent could have been either born of Matrix or budded from one who was, ad infinitum), Aerialbots over America shows that the Aerialbots were created and alive, but it wasn't until Heavy Traffic that the others aside from Silverbolt received their programming from the Matrix.

In Aerialbots over America, Wheeljack states that the Aerialbots have been given the Creation Matrix, which blows apart your theory.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:52 am

Yes, I just wanted to add that... they were already alive and given life BY the Matrix in their first appearance, just their programming wasn't complete. I guess, that means they knew nothing about history of Cybertron and Earth and the Cons in general, just some broad guidelines like 'shoot anything that has a Con sign on it'.

If a TF is running on programming only, that's like Jetfire in 'Brainstorm' - a soulless machine, not even capable of talk.

After their fiasco at the dam, the Aerialbots were promptly deactivated and their minds erased, then Prime gave them life a second time.