Imagine.... no Transformers UK

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:10 pm

If Marvel UK hadn't decided to print their own Transformers title back in 1984... how would this have affected Transformer-fandom up to this very day?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:16 pm

I would not be here!

Probably.

Maybe.

I don't ******* know.

Laserwave · Post by **Laserwave** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:46 pm

I can tell you what would have happened. There`d be no Transformers. It`d have just been a nother fad that died out real quick, like Pokemon/Digimon, Furbies, and all the other crap we get thrown year after year.

Transformers needed a backstory that wasn`t as lame as most of the US stuff we were getting, and Furman et al were basically given free rein to do what they wanted, as long as it didn`t affect the US stuff. In doing so, Marvel UK created plenty of good quality stuff, most of which has kept us all into Transformers, as we all know.

So thanks, Marvel UK.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:03 pm

i wouldn't be here. definitely.

So blame Furman.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:10 pm

I wouldnt be here - my Saturdays consited of me reciving my comic, sitting in front of the TV watching TF and reading my comic over and over and over...

Without the comic i dont think I would have got so involved in somthing, collecting it was also a big thing at a young age, it was like 'my thing' and made me feel a bit more grown up.

The cartoon would have fallen into the past, and TF to me would have just ended up as 'that robot cartoon'...

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:16 pm

Transformers-fandom would still exist, I think it wouldn't be much smaller. Only less interesting.

Me, personally? When I registered at TFA I wasn't even aware of UK comics. I guess I'd be here somewhere anyway.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:44 pm

here's a bit long, but logical theory that if there was no Marvel UK,TF would'nt be here now.

1. Marvel UK was so popular -> people in the UK bought more toys.

2. Marvel Us sales went bad -> they brought in Furman to save the day, which he did, delivering a world-shattering finale to the comic.

3. After pretenders, micros and action masters, TF became less and less popular in the US, so much that Hasbro cancelled the line in 1991.
BUT!!! That was not so in the UK/Europe and Japan. We got more action masters with new gimmicks, re-releases of some of the best japanese TFs (Overlord, Motorvators, Rescue force) and most importantly, a small, only 6-6 membered team on each sides, who brought the TF line back to being just transforming robots with not-too overdone gimmicks, the Turbomasters and the Predators.
Sales skyrocketed, so much that (as some Hasbro designers confirmed it) the success of the 1992 line was the reason that hasbro re-launched Transformers in 1993 with Generation 2.

So remember folks, logically, without Marvel UK, there'd have been no G2, no Beast Wars, and so on. Who knows, maybe the absence of Transformers would have given Gobots the space to expand and be reborn... but these things are not meant for mortal men to know...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:16 pm

Hmm.

By "No Marvel UK" do you mean "No Marvel UK" or "No Marvel Transformers UK"?

Because that's a pretty big difference.

No Marvel UK would have meant not just not TFUK, but no Spider-Man and Zoids, no Star Wars:Return of the Jedi, no Doctor Who Magazine, etc.

Pretty much nothing but US imports, which I believe were few and far between back then, seeing as even after Marvel UK had taken popular US titles to the local newsagent, the rest could only be found at very select outlets.

Action Force would have still been around, as the Eagle/Battle comic would have stayed strong with no immediate competition in its audience. 2000AD appealling to a slightly more mature audience.

Furman and Senior would've probably collaborated on a one-off 2000AD strip called Death's Head, but the appeal of a robotic bounty hunter wouldn't have been that great when put up against the mutant bounty hunters of Strontium Dog. Dragon's Claws probably wouldn't have made it off the drawing board.

No Marvel TFUK, on the other hand, would've probably just resulted in some combined title, like Transformers and Action Force, which wouldn't have survived for too long, even when they'd try to inject interest by introducing a third player that would act as backup to the other two.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:34 am

Rebis wrote:Spider-Man and Zoids

man, i wish they'd release TPBs of Zoids, that was excellent, shame it ended up being cut off early (after promising (if i recall correctly) a smaller, monthly title instead of it's weekly offering... ) it was starting to really get good.

as to the question at hand, i really don't think i would be here personally. the comic is what really got me into TFs in a big way, i mean, the cartoon was fun and all (when you're eight!) but long term appeal? i don't think so, not for me.

just imagine, without TFUK, there would probably be a greater percentage of cartoon fans! *shudder*

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:01 am

Spider-Man and Zoids was awesome. I really need to dig out my old issues.

The no TF UK = no TFs theory is interesting, but I dare say there would still be an online TF fandom. There's online fandoms for pretty much everything, including most 80's toylines that had much less success and longevity than Transformers. Some of those got new toy lines, shows and comics also.
I reckon I'd agree with Ozz, but perhaps go a little smaller on the size of the fandom.

Again, personally, I wouldn't be here. I'd probably be on a 2000AD board or something.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:40 am

i think i'd be on an X-Men board monaing about how crap all the x-titles (bar Exiles and Astonishing) are.

Or maybe a Whedon site.

Certainly not here, as i guess here wouldn't exist in this form anyway. ooh, spooky.

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:31 pm

Honestly, I think that TF would have been just as big in the USA, just not as story-driven as it is today because of the exceptional UK storytelling.

Growing up, all I ever had was the US comics and the toon . . . and that was enough to sustain the popularity of the franchise from 1984 to the early 1990's. Now, at least prior to the coming of Furman, TF comics were as shallow as could be.

I didn't start reading the UK TF comics until 2 years ago with the Titan reprints. They are brilliant . . . . at least when compared to most of the Toy licensee comics dreck that was being manufactured at the time.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:45 am

I wonder...

With no Marvel UK there'd be no...

Simon Furman
Geoff Senior
Lee Sullivan
Andy Wildman
Bryan Hitch (!)
Barry Kitson
Primus
Death's Head
G2 comics
War Within

to name but a few.

Now seriously, if Furman hadn't scripted the last 25 issues of US G1 and all of G2, would even as many US fans have returned after all these years?

I think we'd have a fandom centered around cartoons and toys (admittedly thats what we have anyway!) which would be similar to many of the other 80s fads but more popular than most.

What we definitely have instead is a very diverse community because of the comic angle.

Post by **Best First** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:10 pm

i think its safe to say many of the artists would have found their way anyway.

i wonder how US G1 would have ended without Furmy involved though?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:03 pm

I think it would have petered out around issue 60. Megatron would probably have still come back and Op would have beat him up. The End.

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:22 pm

Well, because of the story possibilities, I think that Transformers will survive the demise of most of the other 1980's nostalgia fads. Just look at what has already come and gone since 2000.

I think for me, the quick death of the He-man and Masters of Universe toyline and new Cartoon was the most amazing. Both toy and 'toon were great.

I think the difference is that TF has a real mythology, you know?

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:21 pm

KingMob wrote:Spider-Man and Zoids was awesome. I really need to dig out my old issues.

The no TF UK = no TFs theory is interesting, but I dare say there would still be an online TF fandom. There's online fandoms for pretty much everything, including most 80's toylines that had much less success and longevity than Transformers. Some of those got new toy lines, shows and comics also.
I reckon I'd agree with Ozz, but perhaps go a little smaller on the size of the fandom.

Again, personally, I wouldn't be here. I'd probably be on a 2000AD board or something.

Of course I meant Marvel TF Uk, not Marvel UK, Rebis... You're worse then Spock sometimes, you know...

Kingmob: Wonder if there's a Visionaries online fanbase?

Or Dino-Riders? (They had a really insipid short Marvel comic, though the cartoon was generally TF with dinos, Questar was Peter Cullen, Rasp Chris Latta, Krulos Frank WElker, you get the picture...)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:18 pm

BB Shockwave wrote:Of course I meant Marvel TF Uk, not Marvel UK, Rebis... You're worse then Spock sometimes, you know...

As I am, in this reality at least, real, and Spock is fictional, I'd imagine quite justifiably that I have an infinite spectrum to be more or less worse than Spock on any occasion that one might select.

Interesting that you bring up Star Trek during this, tho, as I remember reading my first (regular) issue of TFUK while watching an episode of the original series during its mid-80s re-runs on BBC2.

Not that this has much relevance on the topic, btw.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:39 am

Rebis wrote:As I am, in this reality at least, real, and Spock is fictional, I'd imagine quite justifiably that I have an infinite spectrum to be more or less worse than Spock on any occasion that one might select.

You are Mr. Logic from Viz and I claim my five pounds

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:09 pm

Well,just check my quote - If you can't explain why you did something, then : Shockwave did it!

Hope we won't have to deal with Shockwavediditis in the IDW comic. Ol'one -eye deserves a vacation after stealing the matrix, connecting to Vector Sigma, creating the Duocons, Triple-Changers and Micromasters and who knows what else....

Uberking Robert · Post by **Uberking Robert** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:24 am

I don't think the Transformers would have automatically gone out of business within a little while of coming along if there wasn't any UK stuff. I don't think the UK stuff is as well known in North America as it is in Britain (which makes sense). And I read the UK comics. As far as I cared they sucked.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:27 am

Uberking Robert wrote:I don't think the Transformers would have automatically gone out of business within a little while of coming along if there wasn't any UK stuff. I don't think the UK stuff is as well known in North America as it is in Britain (which makes sense).

Which isn't what anybody is saying. I think it goes without saying that without the UK comic, UK fandom would be a lot smaller, and also that the end of the G1 comic without Furman (who was only there because of his work on G1) and the G2 comic (if it existed) would have been completely different. It's impossible to say for sure whether the fact that the UK and Europe still had a toyline between G1 and G2 led to G2 (which played a strong part in Beast Wars, without which Western versions of TF would be reduced to the short-lived nostalgia return of things like Thundercats and He-Man that we've seen over the past couple of years).

And I read the UK comics. As far as I cared they sucked.

Burn the heretic!

More seriously, what on Earth made you come to that conclusion?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:06 am

Uberking Robert wrote:And I read the UK comics. As far as I cared they sucked.

You're opinion, fair enough. But what some of us are discussing is the knock on effect UK TF comics had on the rest of the TF universe. The US G1 and G2 comic benefitted tremendously (same writer) and its led right up to the present day - Furman being the first person IDW called up for their new stint.

Not to mention the amazing artistic talent the UK TF comic unleashed amongst the comic world.

Uberking Robert · Post by **Uberking Robert** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:53 am

Bouncelot wrote:
Uberking Robert wrote:I don't think the Transformers would have automatically gone out of business within a little while of coming along if there wasn't any UK stuff. I don't think the UK stuff is as well known in North America as it is in Britain (which makes sense).
Which isn't what anybody is saying. I think it goes without saying that without the UK comic, UK fandom would be a lot smaller, and also that the end of the G1 comic without Furman (who was only there because of his work on G1) and the G2 comic (if it existed) would have been completely different. It's impossible to say for sure whether the fact that the UK and Europe still had a toyline between G1 and G2 led to G2 (which played a strong part in Beast Wars, without which Western versions of TF would be reduced to the short-lived nostalgia return of things like Thundercats and He-Man that we've seen over the past couple of years).

And I read the UK comics. As far as I cared they sucked.
Burn the heretic!

More seriously, what on Earth made you come to that conclusion?

I don't know how I possibly couldn't have. The artwork sucked. Unicron sucked and is the most overblown, overrated villain of all time. The whole thing about the Transformers being sons of a god is dumb. I couldn't stand the style of writing, the way the characters talked (all of a sudden they're all ultra-stupid low class sailors?) and Optimus Prime turned from being a heroic Autobot warrior into being a pussy who couldn't even put that dumb Megaratchet creature out of its misery. And it doesn't get any better in G2. If I'm not mistaken, Furman was the wanker who came up with the idea that Transformers should reproduce by cell-splitting like giant amoebas. In the immortal words of comic book guy: Worst. Idea. Ever.

I'm sorry, but I can't think of anything about Furman's crap that wasn't, well...crap. In my opinion, the only-and I do mean ONLY-good Transformers thing that ever, ever happened was the American G1 cartoon.

Post by **Denyer** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:48 am

Uberking Robert wrote:Prime turned from being a heroic Autobot warrior into being a pussy

And the cartoon, in which he failed to kill much of anything apart from during the extended hour-and-a-half toy commercial?

Uberking Robert wrote:came up with the idea that Transformers should reproduce by cell-splitting like giant amoebas. In the immortal words of comic book guy: Worst. Idea. Ever.

Liquid metal worked for the T-1000.

Uberking Robert wrote:I'm sorry, but I can't think of anything

Don't apologise... you can be fairly sure no-one else is going to...

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:30 am

Uberking Robert wrote:I don't know how I possibly couldn't have. The artwork sucked.

Personally I love the artwork most of the time. Particularly the covers.

Unicron sucked and is the most overblown, overrated villain of all time. The whole thing about the Transformers being sons of a god is dumb.

Personally I love comic Unicron and think that the idea that they are sons of a god is a brilliant idea. It's certainly more interesting than the idea that they were created as goods to sell.

I couldn't stand the style of writing, the way the characters talked (all of a sudden they're all ultra-stupid low class sailors?)

They do? I thought that the dialogue mostly portrayed the TFs as being pretty intelligent. I guess this means that you must absolutely hate the G1 Cartoon take on the Dinobots then. "Me Grimlock Talk Stupid."

and Optimus Prime turned from being a heroic Autobot warrior into being a pussy who couldn't even put that dumb Megaratchet creature out of its misery.

Ah, so you think that he shouldn't have compassion? In the comics Op was a rounded character - an effective leader who, as so many leaders are, is wieghed down by the burden of responsiblility and the consequences of some of the decisions he's made. A realistic 3-D portrayal which, IMO,. improves the character by miles.

And it doesn't get any better in G2. If I'm not mistaken, Furman was the wanker who came up with the idea that Transformers should reproduce by cell-splitting like giant amoebas. In the immortal words of comic book guy: Worst. Idea. Ever.

Another area where what I think is quite an interesting idea is something you despise. Maybe you're my opposite or something. How do you think TFs should reproduce, then?

I'm sorry, but I can't think of anything about Furman's crap that wasn't, well...crap. In my opinion, the only-and I do mean ONLY-good Transformers thing that ever, ever happened was the American G1 cartoon.

So you don't rate Beast Wars either?

Post by **Denyer** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:27 am

Bouncelot wrote:I guess this means that you must absolutely hate the G1 Cartoon take on the Dinobots then.

"Yeh boss!"

"Nice one boss!"

"We have no personalities boss!"

"All shut up! Me Grimlock hate everyone! Me Grimlock murder nuns!"

What's not to love?

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:10 am

Uberking Robert wrote:I couldn't stand ... the way the characters talked (all of a sudden they're all ultra-stupid low class sailors?)

Because Seaspray, Warpath, Shrapnel, Dinobots, Ironhide, Blaster, Jazz and several others didn't talked in the annoying way in the cartoon?

Bouncelot wrote:How do you think TFs should reproduce, then?

Fembots, dude. ain't it obvious?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:13 am

I like the way Furman took chances with Primus and the G2 reproduction method. Certainly not to everyones tastes, but it broadened the scope of TFs in the long run.

However, criticising the "style of writing" and then celebrating the cartoon is faintly ridiculous. I suppose what you mean is you prefer it when Transformers is childish and plays safe?

Same goes for the artwork really.... you're saying all the art was *****. Obviously its not your thing, but don't forget some of those hideously animated cartoon episodes either ('Kremzeek', 'Carnage in C Minor' *shiver* ) or the millions of animation errors throughout the series.

Post by **snarl** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:09 am

Come on, this guy has to be an alt id troll...

I dont believe he's a real person for one second.