What is the matrix?

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:06 pm

What is it, what can it do, whats it all about, huh, huh?

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:29 pm

we should turn this into a poll

A- the knowledge and wisdom of all the ancients in a portable case.

B - the essence of Primus

C - Wank plot device

D - Shiny Disco ball.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:44 pm

Add "E - a transferable program of the Primal Essence (or whatever its called)"

&

"F - All of the above"

and you got it.

In which case my answer would be F.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:25 pm

No one can be told what The Matrix is.

*ducks to avoid rotten vegetables*

jboyler · Post by **jboyler** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:46 am

The matrix is a really good idea that all went horribly, horribly wrong.

-J

Repticon · Post by **Repticon** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:34 am

Its deffinition is different in each continuity, but in general terms and mixing continuities it can be defined as:

A vase carrying the essence of Primus which can access wisdom, images and facts from the past (and sometimes the future) and can grant life to other transformers. It`s also the name of the other-dimensional realm where transformers sparks go after termination (think of a Heaven) and it appears that the Autobot Matrix is a mere access gate to that dimension.

Neo Challenger · Post by **Neo Challenger** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:52 am

What it is? A prime example (pun intended) of Deus Ex Machina. A horribly, horribly overused one, at that.

In the fanfic I'm working on, the Matrix has much in common with the Lament Configuration, in that it's something you probably shouldn't open but something compels you too, and then you have to deal with the consequences.

Stormwolf · Post by **Stormwolf** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:10 am

Neo Challenger wrote:What it is? A prime example (pun intended) of Deus Ex Machina. A horribly, horribly overused one, at that.

In the fanfic I'm working on, the Matrix has much in common with the Lament Configuration, in that it's something you probably shouldn't open but something compels you too, and then you have to deal with the consequences.

So, you open the Matrix and Pinhead pops out of it?

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:26 am

What is the matrix?

overused.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:42 am

Hound wrote:we should turn this into a poll

A- the knowledge and wisdom of all the ancients in a portable case.

B - the essence of Primus

C - Wank plot device

D - Shiny Disco ball.

i vote B,C and D and... some other stuff.

mainly C tho. massively overused, but a fun idea in the first place.

altho... if Primus himself cannot destroy Unicorn, how come his essence can? eh?

I blame Creationists.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:46 am

Primus sacrficed himself, stuck his erm essence into the Matrix, and when its needed is expunged in one go to kill Unicron.

So perhaps whilst Primus still had a body and stuff it would have required him to make the ultimate sacrfice and kill himself to stop Unicron..

Via the Matrix he could pass himself off without losing himself completely.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:17 pm

The 'wisdom of ancients' cartoon stuff is basically the same as the Primus essence... in the Comic, the Matrix remembers the past Primes who were its holders.

The interestingtwist was to make the Matrix sentient... though, if it is the essence of Primus,god of do-goodery, how did it forget what evil was?

Post by **Best First** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:30 pm

it wasn't that it wasn't aware of evil - it was that it had never experienced it on a personal level before, until it encounterd the 'alien' on VSQs moon.

i love that shot where that thing nails the guy in the face - genius senior.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:45 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:Primus sacrficed himself, stuck his erm essence into the Matrix, and when its needed is expunged in one go to kill Unicron.

So perhaps whilst Primus still had a body and stuff it would have required him to make the ultimate sacrfice and kill himself to stop Unicron..

Via the Matrix he could pass himself off without losing himself completely.

That's semi what I always went with. Kind of painted Primus in a different shade for me the way I go with the notion though. I'm diehard in that he could have struck the deathblow all along during their initial physical battle while the galaxy(ies) they were battling in were being torn apart, but due to his great sense of good it limited him from thrusting the death blow to "inject" his essence and kill Unicron. So he went for Plan B. In a nutshell.

Stormwolf · Post by **Stormwolf** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:57 pm

Best First wrote:i love that shot where that thing nails the guy in the face - genius senior.

You can see it live action when you watch alien

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:59 pm

The Matrix is a portable interface to the Allspark dimension, the source of all TF life past present and future and all the knowledge they possess. If you have a compatible spark the Matrix links you to the Allspark and lets you access all the TF's collective wisdom, and also it enhances your physical body.

So it's not so much a contianer for the power and wisdom as it it a gateway. This is why Alpha Trion was able to recharge the Matrix in "Headmasters" after it was drained in "Return of Optimus Prime", the overuse had drained it's power and recharging it allowed it to tap into the Allspark once more.

Vector Sigma can do the same, onyl it's a part of Cybertron itself and not portable.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:27 pm

But, umm, the Allspark was never even mentioned until BW... so this is just making up things.

Did A3 really appear in Headmasters? Ithought that was inRebirth...

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:40 pm

I know, but it's a retroactive change that makes sense.

A3 was in Rebirth and Headmasters, in Rebirth he gave Prime visions, in HM he recharged the Matrix with his spirit power.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:49 pm

On cartoon concept.

You have a container that allows you access the allspark, if its just a conduit to another place, why would need to be 're-charged'

also, if it is just a conduit to another place, why would this otherplace have the ability to kill Unicron?

and

if it can be re-chraged in this vast chamber, why not just use the chamber to kill Unicron..

DOesnt quite work for me, the essence of Primus, whilst slightly religous, is a far clearner concept.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:51 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:DOesnt quite work for me, the essence of Primus, whilst slightly religous, is a far clearner concept.

Eh, I always chalked the majority of that religious speak to the work of the 'monks' that cared for the secrets of Cybertron and the sleeping Primus himself. You know, energy-essenced titans at war wrapped in mystic cloth.

gumbo · Post by **gumbo** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:39 pm

Well; in the cartoon its a mixture of primus/transformers who wielded essences empowering it.

I suppose once it was used on Unicron, Primus's essence might not be in it anymore but I don't know.

Though if I remember correctly the whole cartoon "Call of the Primitives" or whatever it was called showed a brief scene where the energy beast that was created by the maker of unicron was apparently originally "one of six" Matrix's.

I might be wrong there though but it is something I remember seeing.

In the comic it was a mixture of Primus Essence and the previous wielders as well.

One thing to consider is this; there were only three wielders of the Matrix before Prime, so that means the ancients are all of three individuals, not a whole lot of relative potential wisdom there really for creatures that live millions of years.

Though of course there is the Primus aspect of it which is probably able to bestow some wisdom, of course he got tricked by Galvatron in the US comic so maybe not and he was pretty naive if you will when his/wielders essence encountered evil, so maybe he wouldn't be that much of a beneficerie of wisdom.

Basically its a plot device; it kept Optimus aware once the Plague had devoured him, I believe this drained it of pretty much what energy was left. It made Starscream one with "Warworld" and gave him regenerative powers. It can do an uber energy blast and blow away Unicron but that basically drains it. When Thunder(wing?) used it he got taken control by the essences using it and formed an force field of energy around himself that was shaped somewhat like a demon. It hurt Unicron but was dealt with pretty easily.

Laserwave · Post by **Laserwave** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:32 pm

The power of the Matrix compels you!!!

To overuse a plot device!!!

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:52 pm

I had my own theory on the "Matrix is a gateway to Allspark" thing and how it relates to destroying Unicron:

-Primacron worked with the Quints when they were first making the TFs and makes the Primitives. Then he goes off to make Unicron as a WMD or a solar system clean-up device. He decides to give him a spark to make him more intelligent and efficient. He taps into the Allspark and gives Uni a spark.

Thus, when Rodimus tapped into the Allspark via the MoL, it simply reabsorbed Unicron's spark into the Allspark, whihc caused a chain reaction which ultimately destroyed his physical form as well as a TF Body isn't as strong without a spark (look at Vehicon drones compared to the Generals) and without his mind he couldn't regulate functions, etc, and fell apart.

Post by **Denyer** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:04 pm

Señior's Covenant wrote: I'm diehard in that he could have struck the deathblow all along during their initial physical battle while the galaxy(ies) they were battling in were being torn apart, but due to his great sense of good it limited him from thrusting the death blow to "inject" his essence and kill Unicron. So he went for Plan B. In a nutshell.

I'm pretty sure he didn't want to, too... his power could kill Unicron, but he'd die too. Using the matrix allowed for the possibility that his personality would survive... of course, as things turned out, it didn't.

ShadowSonic wrote:The Matrix is a portable interface to the Allspark dimension, the source of all TF life past present and future and all the knowledge they possess. If you have a compatible spark the Matrix links you to the Allspark and lets you access all the TF's collective wisdom, and also it enhances your physical body.

Not bad for something that was in mothballs when Megs was ripping open Optimus in season two.

Uberking Robert · Post by **Uberking Robert** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:44 am

Personally I always hated the thing Furman did with the Matrix. Primus is a crappy god and Unicron sucks. It was better in the US cartoon where it was just this thingy that looks cool. The Furman Matrix never struck me as anything but a fancy disco ball (which, by the way, is what Unicron was killed by).

Post by **Denyer** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:44 am

Uberking Robert wrote:Primus is a crappy god and Unicron sucks. It was better in the US cartoon

Clearly a robot that's larger than a planet being built by a chibi ape is far more realistic, yeah.

Uberking Robert · Post by **Uberking Robert** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:46 am

All will bow down before the power of the Fishmonkey. Well, to be honest I think it's a much better plot than being some retarded biblical character. It's my strict opinion that robots and scientific things should definitely not have anything to do with gods. And I've never seen that fishmonkey alien but I think it would be a better story if they had made him not look like a fishmonkey and if they had also given a reason why he hates the Transformers.

I think a good explanation (though this one might not have gotten past the censors...damned PC) would be that Primacrom (sp? I think that was the fishmonkey alien's name) had lived for so long that he was tired of living and wanted to die. Except he's indestructible and immortal and can't be killed by anything. But finally using his genius intellect he builds a device that can kill him, but it cannot possibly be duplicated, rebuilt or repaired if it's destroyed. Primacrom is about to use it but then a battle between the Autobots and Decepticons (they were fighting over the machine Primacrom built) erupts in his lab and the machine is destroyed. So he builds Unicron because he blames all Transformers for cursing him to have to live for the rest of eternity and he wants revenge so he builds Unicron and sends him to kill the Transformers. And of course there's a little irony that the Transformers are being killed by a really, really big Transformer (like I said, only a little).

Post by **Denyer** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:52 am

Uberking Robert wrote: It's my strict opinion that robots and scientific things should definitely not have anything to do with gods.

Who says Primus is a god? Primus does. Astrotrain claims to be a god... does that make him one?

Primus and Unicron are basically fairly powerful aliens in the comic.

Transformers are sentient. It's therefore reasonable that a few of them ascribe spiritual explanations to stuff they don't understand.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:00 pm

Uberking Robert wrote: It was better in the US cartoon where it was just this thingy that looks cool.

Heaven forbid it actually had a purpose... yes, the Autobot Matrix of Leadership/Creation Matrix is just a bit of bling...

Uberking Robert wrote:Personally I always hated the thing Furman did with the Matrix. Primus is a crappy god and Unicron sucks.

and

Uberking Robert wrote:The Furman Matrix never struck me as anything but a fancy disco ball.

Err... Furman didn't actually come up with the disco-ball Matrix. The disco-ball Matrix you're talking about was created by the Movie writers (as opposed to the Matrix first introduced in the comic that was just a computer programme). Furman did come up with Primus tho, yes.

Uberking Robert wrote:(which, by the way, is what Unicron was killed by)

maybe he really didn't like Disco?