The Savage/Noble creature.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:52 pm

What's the opinion of him? Was it neat to have an entirely organic Transformer? Did he suck a dong on Donkey Kong? Should the souless husk have still been alive without you know who inside?

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:48 pm

S/N confuses the hell out of me. He seems to appear from nowhere, although perhaps he was formed by the organic matter that BM Megs was trying to eradicate from his form when he was destroyed. Of course, that would mean he had no 'soul' of his own, and certainly no spark. Perhaps the fact that he was spawned from a sentient being, PERHAPS in a similar way to the TF 'cell-division' in the G2 comic could have imbued S/N with a simple personality - a leaking of Meg's lifeforce - because he definately didn't have many marbles after Meg's spark left him. Who knows, perhaps S/N gave birth himself via the cell-division process during his time wandering around under Cybertron's surface, and that there could be generations of similar creatures existing into the far future, thriving on the organic nature of the planet after the remormatting at the end of BM. There's an idea that you might like to use, SC.

I should image that - if S/N didn't have a spark, which I feel is the case - then he died from the wounds inflicted by the bag-assed laser that shot him (and seemingly killed him) - he didn't appear again in the show after that episode. It also meant that he was unlikely to be able to become 'one with the Matrix' after death like TFs normally do, 'cos he doesn't have a spark. It would seem dead is dead in the case of S/N.
A TF with two beast modes is a cool idea though, but I wouldn't want an entire TF series based on the premise, although there was a range of toys created for the idea.
And it became obvious fairly quickly that he was Megatron (in some form) in the show.

Any help?

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:57 pm

Autobloke wrote:Who knows, perhaps S/N gave birth himself via the cell-division process during his time wandering around under Cybertron's surface, and that there could be generations of similar creatures existing into the far future, thriving on the organic nature of the planet after the remormatting at the end of BM. There's an idea that you might like to use, SC.

MAMTHAR! Er, I mean... ..."IDUNNOWHEREALLTHESEPILLSCAMEFROMOFFICER!" No, um, yeah, thanks dude.

Autobloke wrote:Any help?

Well, to be honest I was really looking for help this time, really. No really. It's just that I've, as you know, been thinking about it and I was really wondering what other folks thought about the S/N thing.

Now what would help is to know exactly where he was shot. I'd look for myself but I don't have the series, or omnipotence. At least not since that whole ordeal in Singapore.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:36 pm

Señior's Covenant wrote:Now what would help is to know exactly where he was shot.

I'll look out the vids tomorrow and check for you. Scraplet has the show on disc at the moment, so he could probably find you a good clear picture of the shot and where it hit though.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:43 pm

Yayness!

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:34 pm

Here you go.

WARNING TO SCRAPLET!!! EPISODE SPOILERS AHEAD!!!

In the episode: 'Sparkwar: Part#1: The Siege', Megatron detatches his spark from his flaoting head form and begins to suck up the stolen sparks into himself (also nicking the main cast Maximal's sparks via a continuous double beam to their chests). S/N flies up in his reptile mode to stop Megs, but he takes a blast directly in the chest with the same type of beam. He falls quite a distance to the ground, transforms and dies (Primal actually says later that S/N had sacrificed his life to save them, which would imply that he is indeed dead). As the beam that hit S/N was one designed to extract sparks, it could be assumed that he either lost his version of a spark (such as a soul) to the beam, or was just fatally injured by it as if it was a nasty laser blast, or that the fall killed him (unlikely). All conjecture, of course.
Anyway, here's the pics of S/N getting hit by the beam (exactly at the place on the body where a spark would normally be extracted from, you'll notice):

Conclude from all that what you will...

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:52 pm

Autobloke wrote:Conclude from all that what you will...

You know I will good sir.

Too bad this topic ended up like this though. I really wanted to know the general thoughts about S/N.

Eh, s'all good. As the song goes...

You can't always get what you want,
You can't always get what you want,
You can't always get what you want,
But if you try sometimes,
You just might find,
You get what you need.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:22 pm

Señior's Covenant wrote:Too bad this topic ended up like this though. I really wanted to know the general thoughts about S/N.

PM Scraplet and see what he thinks - if he's got that far in the eps yet. Personally, I think that the series could have easily done without S/N, despite the nice spin on the beast concept that he presented.
And anyone lurking in this thread, put fingers to keys and help SC out here. C'mon - you know it makes sense.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:30 pm

Autobloke wrote:And anyone lurking in this thread, put fingers to keys and help SC out here. C'mon - you know it makes sense.

Plus it could help out the slower traffic of the BW/BM section. Eh, IDW's release next year will do it too I guess...

Mother: Patience is a virtue my son.
Son: Yeah I never got into being virtuous. It interferes with my...everything.

Scraplet · Post by **Scraplet** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:52 pm

Autobloke wrote: WARNING TO SCRAPLET!!! EPISODE SPOILERS AHEAD!!!

'Sokay - I'm up to that episode! Cheers for the thought, anyway

I kinda took it as being the residual 'being' left when Megatron abandoned his organic side. Its not just a physical thing, because while he has a beast mode he becomes a slave to his beast instinct whenever he looses his temper (leaving his control harness, changing to his dragon mode and indulging in some mindless violence)

So, I figure as he wants to get rid of his beast mode, he also wants to get rid of his 'primal instincts' as well. Its these instincts that make N/S more than just a pool of protoplasm when the TF/spark is seperated from the organic, but explains why he doesn't have a personallity as such.

That was my take on it, anyhow. Did that make sense???

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:55 pm

Absolutely.

Still, I wonder where the wolf came from.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:47 pm

Señior's Covenant wrote:where the wolf came from.

Indeed. The dragon mode obviously came from Meg's own beast mode.
Hmm... need to think on this one...

Scraplet · Post by **Scraplet** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:18 pm

Señior's Covenant wrote: Still, I wonder where the wolf came from.

It's because Megatron is big and bad........

........I'll get my coat.....

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:38 pm

Dreadful.
Besides, wasn't Billie Piper the Bad Wolf?

I can't believe that no-one else has an opinion on Savage/Noble.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:47 pm

Eh, I blame slow traffic. And conquistadors of course.

Scraplet · Post by **Scraplet** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:47 pm

I don't think anyone comes in here anymore........
HELLO........HELLLLLLOO........ANYBODY THERE!

*echoes*

Nope.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:53 pm

It's as empty as.........I'll leave it at that. I've got too many possibilities to fill in the blank there.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:16 pm

Well, it's enough for you to mull over for now, I'm sure. Perhaps there'll be something new at a later date.
Perhaps adam (the fella Scraplet got the BM eps off of) will be back soon and have his own opinions to add to the pot.

The Last Autobot · Post by **The Last Autobot** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:49 am

An what if along with his beast mode/instincts he left all the goodness (albeit it wasnt too much) his spark had in S/N ? So that would be what fueled him.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:52 pm

True - Megs did seem to become even more evil after his spark was extractracted from S/N, so perhaps he did leave something else behind besides a residual lifeforce.

Wonderpants · Post by **Wonderpants** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:53 am

Well, Megatron did at least seem to keep his word in BM (notably in The Weak Component). I guess that could have transferred over or been left behind in Savage/Noble.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:21 pm

I always thought the winged wolf was a great homage to Fangry, who,let's be frank, got one hell of an ugly beast mode... unlike in the comics, where Andy drew him kick-ass.

In fact, I'm buying the S/N toy from BF to repaint him to Fangry!

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:45 pm

Well, the real reason he was a dragon and werewolf was so he'd be the "Noble" Beast Mutant toy from the end of BW. In-show, they never explained it but you can say it was the result of Meg's own evil persona having some effect on the organic remnants.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:43 pm

i recall reading somewhere (in some sort of fanish theory i think) that Megatron had been experimenting on Silverbolt's sparkless Fuzor body in one of his attempts to rid himself of his organic portions. this went wrong and ended up with the Savage/Noble form being a mutated version of his own dragon/dino mode and the wolf/bird form fuzor form of silverbolt.