Character discussion : This Week 'Unicron'

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:55 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:
Universe: Alive (with big holes in him). Can someone explain why?

And so on.

He was attacking Cybertron and then Primus sent him into a black hole... Ithink that was it,but I'll check....

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:53 pm

But I was thinking more about Unicron's essence. Can he be killed simply by destroying his physical form? Or is he ever-present in a more ethreal form, like seen in the BotCon story Reaching the Omega Point?

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:05 pm

I don't think he can be destroyed completely... just like Primus lives on in his children, evenafter his 'death', UNicron will exist as long as there's evil in the hearts of some TFs.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:14 pm

i felt that Unicron was destroyed quite convincingly at the end of the Marvel G1 run tbh.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:42 pm

Definitely. Primus died there so the TFs could live.

However this...

BB Shockwave wrote: just like Primus lives on in his children, evenafter his 'death', UNicron will exist as long as there's evil in the hearts of some TFs.

... is an interesting thought.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:48 pm

For the record, I never bought that Primus is dead. While I never thought about it like BBS mentioned just now, I was always with the idea that as long as Cybertron was, Primus was. Weak, thinned out to non-detectable levels, never able to participate in class again, whatever, I never thought him really gone. Besides, if Primus is ying to Unicron's yang (*senses joke acomin'*) and considering the vastness of the multiverse that is Unicron, Primus would have his dues too, right?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:28 pm

Well if we're talking Marvel US, then Primus is dead, Unicron is dead. There's your yin and yang right there. Prime says in EOE, "You must die Primus, so that all might live!" I'm sure he was onto something.

The Aspects of Evil trade paperback available now (the small b&w manga format) showcases the stories where Unicron returned from within the Matrix and wrecked havoc on Rodimus and his gang. Check it out, its only a fiver!

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:50 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:Prime says in EOE, "You must die Primus, so that all might live!" I'm sure he was onto something.

Yeah, but do you really take everything characters say to be the final word? Surely even the best have to be allowed to make assumptions once in a while, be it right or wrong. Maximo once said (basically) he was the balance of evil created to balance the creation of the first Prime. I'd think there's a bit of propaganda and embelishment going on there.

I get what's being said. With Prime's outlook on the energy of Primus being channeled into the Matrix, and with the severity of Unicron's death visually, yeah, it seems likely a finalized deal. But the fact there's a Matrix in Generation 2 would (kind of leaning back on BBS's idea) imply there's something left of Primus. Plus I'm just of the mind that as long as Cybertron exists (the core of it anyway, be the core what you will believe of core's HAR-D-HAR, HAR!, erm, course) Primus, the energy being that inhabited it and created from it, will always be alive in some degree.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:55 pm

The problem is G2. G1 ends with the last vestiges of Primus causing a planetwide recreation, and The Last Autobot pops up (possibly the closest thing the TFs have left to a deity).

In G2 the Matrix is back. How? Hmmph, dunno... do we still take literally that its' Primus' essence? That issue when Prime goes beneath Cybertron and meets those mystical types could hint there's something else/more.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:57 pm

I was of the mind the Matrix was recreated in him by the Last Autobot. I also took the mind that the Last Autobot was the backup to temporarily stabilize Cybertron once Primus had been so weakened from channeling the majority of himself energy-wise to kill Unicron.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:12 pm

Yeah I go with the Last Autobot theory too, not sure if that proves Primus lives tho. If the Matrix is as strong as it was before (and it certainly appears to be) that means Primus' light shines as brightly as ever, which would kind of diminish the dramatic effect of his sacrifice in EOE. More likely its something he leaves behind after he's gone.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:15 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:...which would kind of diminish the dramatic effect of his sacrifice in EOE.

Wouldn't be the first time something like that happened though.

spiderfrommars wrote:More likely its something he leaves behind after he's gone.

To each his or her own I guess.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:28 pm

Yeah sure, IMO of course.

I like the idea of the TFs having to get by without their God I guess.

I liked the way we had only a fleeting glimpse of Cybertron in G2 too. Brought back some of the mystery.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:41 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:I like the idea of the TFs having to get by without their God I guess.

Agreed, makes for a nice story. Would have been killer to explore the race like that.

But it's still a non-issue for me in that way. Were Primus weakened to the point he was no longer able to participate in this physical existance as anything but the Cybertron just being there, is still works. There, but dead to the universe.