Not to mention the fact that Unicron's time portal was designed to circumvent the mass-displacement effect. Unless someone out there was going to end up in Limbo when Uni stuck his hand through it?spiderfrommars wrote:No-one.Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: who was displaced for Cyc and Scourge again?
Hence that whole, y'know, rift-in-time-and-space-end-of-the-entire-universe-time-war thing.
Galvatron's insanity
Moderators:Best First, spiderfrommars, IronHide
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Umm... Unicron?Legion wrote:Heck, imagine the size of the person that would mass displace Unicron?!Rebis wrote:Not to mention the fact that Unicron's time portal was designed to circumvent the mass-displacement effect. Unless someone out there was going to end up in Limbo when Uni stuck his hand through it?
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sprunkner
- Over Pompous Autobot Commander
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I don't know much about psychology, but I DO know...
Megs tends to be a bit unstable. His desires for power, which come from the id, overwhelm the superego's natural response to fit into society. His ego corresponds with his id by trying to create a new society out of violence.
However, his ego is flawed. It is proved to him again and again as plan after plan fails and is foiled. He begins to realize, subconsciously, that this isn't working-- that his method of restructuring the universe to fit himself doesn't work. It would be better to restructure himself to fit the universe, but he can't handle that. He must rule. The only other alternative is madness.
So it starts eating at his brain. Luckily for him, a welcome oblivion beckons. I would argue that Megs was actually happy to die, because the problem he was faced with: the universe will not do what I tell it to, was unsolvable. The only refuge was his madness or death. Perhaps he subconsciously sought death in the final battle with Prime-- which led him to be more ruthless and vicious than ever before.
However, instead of death, a new solution presents itself. He can become a new person, much like someone who runs to a new town and a new identity trying to escape their problems. Yes, he has to deal with servitude to Unicron, but he will take care of that. The identity of Galvatron beckons him through the promise of increased power. Surely, with increased power, a new start, a new name, he will no longer be Megatron the loser, but Galvatron, conquerer or worlds, slayer of Primes.
Only Galvatron fails just as miserably as Megatron ever did. So the madness redoubles. In his state as Galvatron it is tempting to see the Megatron persona as the problem, as a weak whiner stuck in the back of his mind. In Savage Circle, he attempts to kill Megatron out of his inner anger against the weak persona he fears he still is.
Although this Galvatron, the Rhythms of Darkness Galvy, was more confident than the movie version, he still bore the same insecurities and would tend to blame his problems on Megs, still in the back of his mind.
So in Savage Circle Galvy actually achieved a profound moment of therapy. He realized that he could not deal with his inner demons by killing the Megatron persona, but by accepting it. He becomes more whole. Of course he still has the f***ed-up desires he had before-- but now he has recognized that he cannot exorcise the Megatron part of his persona.
The Target: 2006 and cartoon Galvatrons never realized this. They were threatened by madness because of the complications of being Megatron but trying to ignore being Megatron.
Of course, I need a good argument now as to why Galvy would work with Megatron in Time Wars, but I'm sure I can BS something.
Megs tends to be a bit unstable. His desires for power, which come from the id, overwhelm the superego's natural response to fit into society. His ego corresponds with his id by trying to create a new society out of violence.
However, his ego is flawed. It is proved to him again and again as plan after plan fails and is foiled. He begins to realize, subconsciously, that this isn't working-- that his method of restructuring the universe to fit himself doesn't work. It would be better to restructure himself to fit the universe, but he can't handle that. He must rule. The only other alternative is madness.
So it starts eating at his brain. Luckily for him, a welcome oblivion beckons. I would argue that Megs was actually happy to die, because the problem he was faced with: the universe will not do what I tell it to, was unsolvable. The only refuge was his madness or death. Perhaps he subconsciously sought death in the final battle with Prime-- which led him to be more ruthless and vicious than ever before.
However, instead of death, a new solution presents itself. He can become a new person, much like someone who runs to a new town and a new identity trying to escape their problems. Yes, he has to deal with servitude to Unicron, but he will take care of that. The identity of Galvatron beckons him through the promise of increased power. Surely, with increased power, a new start, a new name, he will no longer be Megatron the loser, but Galvatron, conquerer or worlds, slayer of Primes.
Only Galvatron fails just as miserably as Megatron ever did. So the madness redoubles. In his state as Galvatron it is tempting to see the Megatron persona as the problem, as a weak whiner stuck in the back of his mind. In Savage Circle, he attempts to kill Megatron out of his inner anger against the weak persona he fears he still is.
Although this Galvatron, the Rhythms of Darkness Galvy, was more confident than the movie version, he still bore the same insecurities and would tend to blame his problems on Megs, still in the back of his mind.
So in Savage Circle Galvy actually achieved a profound moment of therapy. He realized that he could not deal with his inner demons by killing the Megatron persona, but by accepting it. He becomes more whole. Of course he still has the f***ed-up desires he had before-- but now he has recognized that he cannot exorcise the Megatron part of his persona.
The Target: 2006 and cartoon Galvatrons never realized this. They were threatened by madness because of the complications of being Megatron but trying to ignore being Megatron.
Of course, I need a good argument now as to why Galvy would work with Megatron in Time Wars, but I'm sure I can BS something.
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Warcry
- Got turned into the Spacebridge
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I think there's a flaw in that theory, though.
In Rhythms of Darkness, when Galvatron was the more-or-less unchallenged ruler of North America and all but seven Autobots were dead, he was still crazy (not as crazy as he would later become, certainly, but not at all a stable personality). His ego wasn't being constantly crushed, but he'd still tipped over the edge into madness. Third-person delusions of granduer and hanging corpses off of the ruins of the World Trade Center so you can taunt them from time to time aren't signs of perfect mental health, after all...
No, I think Galvatron was destined for madness whether or not he was able to succeed. In fact, success might have made it worse; the fact that he remembered his time as Megatron and his constant failures is bad enough. But the fact that he needed help from Unicron to become powerful enough to do what he wanted...that's gotta hurt, no?
In Rhythms of Darkness, when Galvatron was the more-or-less unchallenged ruler of North America and all but seven Autobots were dead, he was still crazy (not as crazy as he would later become, certainly, but not at all a stable personality). His ego wasn't being constantly crushed, but he'd still tipped over the edge into madness. Third-person delusions of granduer and hanging corpses off of the ruins of the World Trade Center so you can taunt them from time to time aren't signs of perfect mental health, after all...
No, I think Galvatron was destined for madness whether or not he was able to succeed. In fact, success might have made it worse; the fact that he remembered his time as Megatron and his constant failures is bad enough. But the fact that he needed help from Unicron to become powerful enough to do what he wanted...that's gotta hurt, no?
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sprunkner
- Over Pompous Autobot Commander
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I'm glad you found a different flaw from the one I already pointed out.
I think Galvy tends toward quite a bit of paranoia. With the repressed idea of a Megatron causing him to fail (and this was said by the Rhythms of Darkness Galvy) not to mention the fact that we're never really sure that Unicron is dead, and the fact that Starscream already killed him... well, you get one guy who is constantly looking over his shoulder. Anyone or anything could be coming back to life, trying to kill him, and Megatron is always part of him, causing him to fail.
I think Galvy tends toward quite a bit of paranoia. With the repressed idea of a Megatron causing him to fail (and this was said by the Rhythms of Darkness Galvy) not to mention the fact that we're never really sure that Unicron is dead, and the fact that Starscream already killed him... well, you get one guy who is constantly looking over his shoulder. Anyone or anything could be coming back to life, trying to kill him, and Megatron is always part of him, causing him to fail.
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Metal Vendetta
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