Transformer Genetics
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- Predabot
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Rightie then. This is a topic I've given some tought. I think it's time to dig a bit deeper in it. Lets begin with the basics. Transformers base "life-information" comes from the matrix, there matter-cellular mass is either pre-designed body's ready to be plugged in, or empty embryo-like arcs, protoforms.
When the matrix is activated it transfers some base information on the personality, (we've seen that other things is ussually programmed later on, or by another transformer, ie Prime saying he's programming the Aerial-bots, and such other notions of acctual programmers within the race) but the introduction of Sparks and protoforms (asexual division too, we'll talk about that later) gives it another aspect.
The spark, is apparently a light-like metaphysical core of information, the spark contains information on the subjects core personality, but also physical properties, as apparently protoforms infused with sparks take on some physical parameters, a bit like DNA works for us organisms.
This Transformers hereditary mass, is apparently copy-able and editable, as have been seen with various clones, and even the Matrix-Prime bonding-process, as it transmutes the Transformer connected to it, if necessary, to a sort of "Ultimate Transformer", looks rather similar to genetic engineering to me.
Theoretically, the light-energy in there sparks contain information as to how the nanotech components that make out their bodies is to form, similar again, to how organisms evolve/functions.
The Bio-morphic division process! Ah, the original proto-forms. The first Transformers rose from the surface of Cybertron, and soon took form into various individuals, from the face-less empty arcs that is protoforms.
We know now that the first transformers werent created trough the time-consuming process of Matrix-energy infusion and body-designing, but rather trough a process similar to how primitive organisms reproduce, division. One Transformer divides into two, and so on.
Now, apparently the division must be in the spark-information too, partially. Spark divides into two, whereas one is identical to the original, and the other mutates slightly, or in some cases, massively, creating a different individual. This individual can have similar physical properties and personality as the donor, such as Optimus Primal/Optimus Prime.
Apparently this divison can happen before the spark has any body to program, as in the MTMTE profile-books we are told that when you "load" a spark from the matrix/matrix Flames/Vector Sigma, and transfer it on it's way to a proto-form it can, rarely, divide spontaneously, and then have to be transferred into two protoforms instead of one, this ussually results in two transformers with similar properties/personalities, such as Sunstreaker & Sideswipe.
This "DNA", can also apparently become "inbred", mutated and damaged, such as the G2-Tf, who both look and behave quite differently from normal Transformers.
In the G2-comic we also acctually got to see this hereditary mass in up front, on a hologram, when the Autobot scientists claim that The Swarm has a "genetic structure similar to a Transformers".
And apparently this "DNA" works somewhat different than the organic ones we have on earth. Rather than one, big ordered strain of information, tf-dna looks as if it has several loose parts, modules wich can connect and then reposition itself, and quickly make a different pattern, an on/off system for various feats.
Is this the core of Transformation gentlemen, or have I simply read in too much of this one panel or misinterpreted it?
Now, does anyone have any comments on these "facts" wich I've stated, or perhaps something to add?
When the matrix is activated it transfers some base information on the personality, (we've seen that other things is ussually programmed later on, or by another transformer, ie Prime saying he's programming the Aerial-bots, and such other notions of acctual programmers within the race) but the introduction of Sparks and protoforms (asexual division too, we'll talk about that later) gives it another aspect.
The spark, is apparently a light-like metaphysical core of information, the spark contains information on the subjects core personality, but also physical properties, as apparently protoforms infused with sparks take on some physical parameters, a bit like DNA works for us organisms.
This Transformers hereditary mass, is apparently copy-able and editable, as have been seen with various clones, and even the Matrix-Prime bonding-process, as it transmutes the Transformer connected to it, if necessary, to a sort of "Ultimate Transformer", looks rather similar to genetic engineering to me.
Theoretically, the light-energy in there sparks contain information as to how the nanotech components that make out their bodies is to form, similar again, to how organisms evolve/functions.
The Bio-morphic division process! Ah, the original proto-forms. The first Transformers rose from the surface of Cybertron, and soon took form into various individuals, from the face-less empty arcs that is protoforms.
We know now that the first transformers werent created trough the time-consuming process of Matrix-energy infusion and body-designing, but rather trough a process similar to how primitive organisms reproduce, division. One Transformer divides into two, and so on.
Now, apparently the division must be in the spark-information too, partially. Spark divides into two, whereas one is identical to the original, and the other mutates slightly, or in some cases, massively, creating a different individual. This individual can have similar physical properties and personality as the donor, such as Optimus Primal/Optimus Prime.
Apparently this divison can happen before the spark has any body to program, as in the MTMTE profile-books we are told that when you "load" a spark from the matrix/matrix Flames/Vector Sigma, and transfer it on it's way to a proto-form it can, rarely, divide spontaneously, and then have to be transferred into two protoforms instead of one, this ussually results in two transformers with similar properties/personalities, such as Sunstreaker & Sideswipe.
This "DNA", can also apparently become "inbred", mutated and damaged, such as the G2-Tf, who both look and behave quite differently from normal Transformers.
In the G2-comic we also acctually got to see this hereditary mass in up front, on a hologram, when the Autobot scientists claim that The Swarm has a "genetic structure similar to a Transformers".
And apparently this "DNA" works somewhat different than the organic ones we have on earth. Rather than one, big ordered strain of information, tf-dna looks as if it has several loose parts, modules wich can connect and then reposition itself, and quickly make a different pattern, an on/off system for various feats.
Is this the core of Transformation gentlemen, or have I simply read in too much of this one panel or misinterpreted it?
Now, does anyone have any comments on these "facts" wich I've stated, or perhaps something to add?
- Impactor returns 2.0
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Re: Transformer Genetics
Predabot wrote:Transformers base "life-information" comes from the matrix, there matter-cellular mass is either pre-designed body's ready to be plugged in, or empty embryo-like arcs, protoforms.
I thought matrix was
A. A power trip
B. a bigdatabase to store knowledge
C. Unliked by Unicron
- Señior's Covenant
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So, basically "a Transformer can be created in a variety of ways"?
And the Matrix is a life-giver as well. Saw that a few times... ...in a variety of ways.
I'm sleepy.
And the Matrix is a life-giver as well. Saw that a few times... ...in a variety of ways.
I'm sleepy.
Muchas gracias to Mob for the Sig, proving why he's called 'King'.
The "i" in "Señior" from "Señior's Covenant" is intentional and part of a stupid & cheesy inside joke from '02. Thank you for your concern.
And one of those ways, if we are to be relieved of our senses and believe The Rebirth, is to take an existing TF and modify it to be the head of a mechanical city, which will then gain the power to transform into a giant robot.Señior's Covenant wrote:So, basically "a Transformer can be created in a variety of ways"?
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- Predabot
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I thought that was because Spike & Cerebros rebuilt/equiped the entire bloody city with some serious TF-technology?Rebis wrote: And one of those ways, if we are to be relieved of our senses and believe The Rebirth, is to take an existing TF and modify it to be the head of a mechanical city, which will then gain the power to transform into a giant robot.
Last edited by Predabot on Fri May 06, 2005 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Depends on which Matrix he means. If you use all the stuff from BW and BM, then the Matrix is also called the Allspark and is a higher dimensional plane where all TF life energies originate and return to so they can be "recycled" and sent out again. When someone uses Vector Sigma or the Creation Matrix, they are simply tapping right into the Allspark, drawing SParks out of it, and then infusing them into Protoforms.
The Creation Matrix is, then, an interface to this Allspark dimension. And if the User has a compatible spark it also will power them up using energy from the Allspark. When anyone draws power or knowledge from it, they are drawing the power and knowledge of the Allspark, the source of all TF life.
The Allspark is then either Primus (along with the life energies of all unborn or dead TFs) or whever he came from.
The Creation Matrix is, then, an interface to this Allspark dimension. And if the User has a compatible spark it also will power them up using energy from the Allspark. When anyone draws power or knowledge from it, they are drawing the power and knowledge of the Allspark, the source of all TF life.
The Allspark is then either Primus (along with the life energies of all unborn or dead TFs) or whever he came from.
- Autobloke
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Personally, I preferred it when the Matrix was the only way to make a TF personality. By Predabot's fairly extensive list it seems that TFs come into being as easily as dropping out of a cereal box. I mean, originally the Matrix was officially the CREATION Matrix, but has since become fairly uncreative these days now that something as simple as slicing an orange in half ( ) seems to spawn new TF life.
Genetics in the TF universe just pointlessly confuses things, and I was never happy with the 'brother' aspect of Sideswipe and Sunstreaker. The whole DNA thing appears to have really been solidified due to the organic parts of characters in BW and BM. Now that things are a bit more mechanical, the genetics of TFs should be dumped.
I also cringed at the cellular division shown in the G2 comic, much preferring the TFs being created out of the very body of Cybertron by Primus.
Splitting Sparks also seemed a bit 'er?' 'cos I don't see why the two parts should be anything else than half a being each.
Perhaps I just latched onto the early mythos of the G1 comics and prefer the simpler way things were done. If you remember, I started the topic about Sparks a couple of months ago to try and answer my dislike of the whole affair (I'm not against sparks, but once introduced in BW they just seemed to become a way out for TFs to not die in the cartoon).
I guess I'm just an old fart and stuck in my ways. My father was the same, so perhaps it's genetics.
Genetics in the TF universe just pointlessly confuses things, and I was never happy with the 'brother' aspect of Sideswipe and Sunstreaker. The whole DNA thing appears to have really been solidified due to the organic parts of characters in BW and BM. Now that things are a bit more mechanical, the genetics of TFs should be dumped.
I also cringed at the cellular division shown in the G2 comic, much preferring the TFs being created out of the very body of Cybertron by Primus.
Splitting Sparks also seemed a bit 'er?' 'cos I don't see why the two parts should be anything else than half a being each.
Perhaps I just latched onto the early mythos of the G1 comics and prefer the simpler way things were done. If you remember, I started the topic about Sparks a couple of months ago to try and answer my dislike of the whole affair (I'm not against sparks, but once introduced in BW they just seemed to become a way out for TFs to not die in the cartoon).
I guess I'm just an old fart and stuck in my ways. My father was the same, so perhaps it's genetics.
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Well, let me just say I've dropped out of many a cereal box and I've yet to master reproducing asexually.Autobloke wrote:By Predabot's fairly extensive list it seems that TFs come into being as easily as dropping out of a cereal box.
Personally I love the multi-facet ways (comic-wise) a TF can be created. Especially the G2 splitting and rising from the flesh of Primus bits. Yumtastic stuff.
But I'm still sleepy.
Muchas gracias to Mob for the Sig, proving why he's called 'King'.
The "i" in "Señior" from "Señior's Covenant" is intentional and part of a stupid & cheesy inside joke from '02. Thank you for your concern.
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Why do people seem to be so uncomfortable about TF's, haveing offspring or siblings?Autobloke wrote: Genetics in the TF universe just pointlessly confuses things, and I was never happy with the 'brother' aspect of Sideswipe and Sunstreaker. The whole DNA thing appears to have really been solidified due to the organic parts of characters in BW and BM. Now that things are a bit more mechanical, the genetics of TFs should be dumped.
I think the vast majority of folks seems to forget, that although TF are 50 foot roots fom another planet, that they are still "people".
Yeah, they're metal and all of that, but they are still sentient beings with feelings and emotions.
Autobloke's girl.
Re: Transformer Genetics
I was always confused as to why they would talk about Transformers having DNA. Why would a machine made out of metal have strands of organic protein telling it how to shape itself.Predabot wrote:
In the G2-comic we also acctually got to see this hereditary mass in up front, on a hologram, when the Autobot scientists claim that The Swarm has a "genetic structure similar to a Transformers".
But what if instead of the "DNA" being organic it was instead a long nanomachine that directed the other, constructive, nanomachines. I found this article in Discover magazine. Please read it and tell me what you think:
http://www.discover.com/issues/apr-05/d ... echnology/
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Re: Transformer Genetics
I didn't acctually think they meant organic acids either, hence when I mentioned "DNA" I used "" (don't know what their called in english..) I always thought it was like some sort of energy-carried information, sorta like what Underbase is. And when the energy is read and absorbed by the nano it starts to build it's stuff.jboyler wrote:I was always confused as to why they would talk about Transformers having DNA. Why would a machine made out of metal have strands of organic protein telling it how to shape itself.Predabot wrote:
In the G2-comic we also acctually got to see this hereditary mass in up front, on a hologram, when the Autobot scientists claim that The Swarm has a "genetic structure similar to a Transformers".
But what if instead of the "DNA" being organic it was instead a long nanomachine that directed the other, constructive, nanomachines. I found this article in Discover magazine. Please read it and tell me what you think:
http://www.discover.com/issues/apr-05/d ... echnology/
I'll have a look at the link soon, a bit too tired now.
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Re: Transformer Genetics
Quotation marks. [/informative]Predabot wrote: (don't know what their called in english..)
Muchas gracias to Mob for the Sig, proving why he's called 'King'.
The "i" in "Señior" from "Señior's Covenant" is intentional and part of a stupid & cheesy inside joke from '02. Thank you for your concern.
Re: Transformer Genetics
Also known as Quotes as opposed to the plural of a quote, which is also known as a quotation, but specifically rather brief. Confused?Señior's Covenant wrote:Quotation marks. [/informative]Predabot wrote: (don't know what their called in english..)
You were last time you didn't know what the "" were, Predabot.
As an aside, they are also known as speech marks, as they often denote the presence of speech in a passage.
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Well, I think that line about DNA in the g@ comics can be explained like this:
In Beast Wars and Beast Machines the wrtiers said that the Maximals and Preds were mainly made out of Nanites (This is how Terrorsaur got bigger when he got super-charged with energon, the nanites multiplied faster and added to his mass).
It's not too much of a stretch to say that the G1 TFs are also similarly composed mainly of nanites, maybe the nanites are arranged in their bodies in the same way DNA strands are in our bodies. Thus they have DNA just not organic like ours. It's very very complex nanites.
In Beast Wars and Beast Machines the wrtiers said that the Maximals and Preds were mainly made out of Nanites (This is how Terrorsaur got bigger when he got super-charged with energon, the nanites multiplied faster and added to his mass).
It's not too much of a stretch to say that the G1 TFs are also similarly composed mainly of nanites, maybe the nanites are arranged in their bodies in the same way DNA strands are in our bodies. Thus they have DNA just not organic like ours. It's very very complex nanites.