Movie reality?

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Thu May 05, 2005 9:56 pm

Just wondered: how do you think the people making the new TF movie will do the characters with actual mouths? Having moving lips like in, say, Beast Wars, strikes me as going to look weird 'cos of the fact that they need to be metal but also realistic and 'elastic'.

I just hope that they don't go the ventriloquist's dummy way.

What about the weight of their movements? Things that big and made of metal would look dumb if they moved as fast and fluidly as they did in the cartoon. But then they can't move like Thunderbirds puppets either.

Anyone else got any concerns about the realistic portrayal of the TFs? I'm sure there are other valid points.

Scraplet · Post by **Scraplet** » Sun May 08, 2005 12:36 am

That TV ad where the car transforms and dances - that seems to illustrate that you can have a big, bulky robot moving fast and fluidly without it looking unrealistic.

Now I think about it, I've no idea what car that commercial is advertising.....ha! you've failed marketing man!!

{slurps Coke, takes bite of McChicken sandwich}

As for faces, a bit of artistic license with very human-like facial movements won't detract, i think. I'm more worried about Prime and Soundwave with face panels. Have them flapping about like your Great-Uncle's mustache may have worked in the cartoon (or did it?

) but I don't think it will look right in live action.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Sun May 08, 2005 5:28 am

I think really, they could do it with just a motionless face plate for Optimus. I do agree that when you think about it, it could look weird.

As for actual mouths, that's a great, great question. Probably the best one IMO out of your current Autobloke Threadstorm. The only example of robotic lips talking using current CGI technology that I can think of up the top of my head is "I, Robot".

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Sun May 08, 2005 8:23 am

The thing about the mouths in 'I,Robot' was that the lips were formed with some kind of 'rubber' stuff, so unless the TFs have rubber faces (I certainly hope not), then there's still the question of what the lips would be made of. Liquid metal? Of course, then THAT would require some kind of explanation during the course of the movie, which would feel crowbarred in. I still get flashes of the robot mouth in Michael Jackson's 'Moonwalker' (I - am - a - robot. Yeek!).
As for Prime and Soundwave's mouthplates, I'd prefer for them to have a bit of voice-synched movement instead of just being static - I really missed the effect in the RID, Armada and Energon cartoons (you just know that the people doing the english translations are duplicating the static frames to add more dialogue). Even G1 Wheeljack had his light-up 'cheeks' to show he was talking.
The only way I can think about for the lip animation (besides the filmakers just ignoring the reality and doing it with straight animation as in BW and BM) is to have really complex mouths with lots of moving parts, to show that they aren't just some malliable metal (a bit like the statues that came to life in the 'Tomb Raider' movie - they were made of lots of separate bits of stone that allowed free movement, and not portrayed as solid 'stone robots' with some kind of 'magic' bendy joints).
And yes, I'd forgotten about the Citreon advert with the dancing car robot. But then again, he was fairly skinny and flimsy, and never really struck me as a very sturdy 'bot. I want the movie TFs to be hulking great badasses, not pipecleaners.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon May 09, 2005 1:40 am

artistic license!

the technolagy to create photo-realistic TF has been around for a while now, the Car advert (citeron) shows this, and I belive is good way to look at how the film will look.

I feel that moving mouths issue, (a problem I have myself) would have to be one of them things the audience accepts. if the camera is ever close enough to see fine detail you might be able to see lots of tiny plates.

In essence the 'metal' in use is probably just very flexible.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Mon May 09, 2005 10:20 am

I suppose. I'm just too picky sometimes (flicks scab across room).

Scraplet · Post by **Scraplet** » Mon May 09, 2005 12:41 pm

We're talking super-advanced alien beings afterall. Why can't they have alloys that are beyond our experience and explaination. Did anyone want a deeper explaination of Terminator 2's technology or DH2's fluid-molybdenum arm? Not knowing the technical details doesn't impare my enjoyment. I don't even know how my car works and I drive that everyday without thinking about it.

But then, maybe i'm just thick

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:27 pm

metal meets rubber... somehow...

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon May 09, 2005 2:41 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:metal meets rubber... somehow...

mebber? rutal?

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Mon May 09, 2005 4:07 pm

I did mention liquid metal of some kind. It's just a suspension of disbelief that I though may look kinda weird in a supposed realistic live-action TF movie.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Mon May 09, 2005 4:37 pm

Personally I have no problem with this issue. Given they're robots from another planet comprised of various metals of which we aren't familiar with likely, it wouldn't surprise me if some portion were a type of 'flexible metal'. In fact, I think it's rather neat.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Mon May 09, 2005 4:42 pm

Yeah, but I'm not just talking in terms of scientific explanation - I just hope it doesn't look weird in a real-world situation. Just try and picture Megatron talking in all his super hi-res photorealistic glory.
It just doesn't look right.
Then again, this IS in my head, and a lot of things are just plain WRONG in there.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Mon May 09, 2005 5:07 pm

If think 'rubbery' faces are essential if the makers of the film want the CGI to convey any kind of emotion.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm

Hound wrote:'rubbery' faces

Thinks of Phil Cool (shudder)

Post by **Kaylee** » Mon May 09, 2005 5:58 pm

Their mouths will just slide open and a voice will pipe from inside, sort of like the really old cybermen eps of Dr. Who

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon May 09, 2005 10:45 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:Their mouths will just slide open and a voice will pipe from inside, sort of like the really old cybermen eps of Dr. Who

as long as they don't sound like them too!

jboyler · Post by **jboyler** » Tue May 10, 2005 7:24 am

The most important thing to making the TFs realistic will be creating a sense of size and momentum. No matter how fast they move, the effects of intertia on such heavy creatures is not something that can be ignored.

-J

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue May 10, 2005 9:46 am

Autobloke wrote:Having moving lips like in, say, Beast Wars, strikes me as going to look weird 'cos of the fact that they need to be metal but also realistic and 'elastic'.

Beast Wars actually convinces me that TFs' moving lips can look good.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Tue May 10, 2005 1:17 pm

But BW isn't exactly what I'd call 'photorealistic' though. I guess I'll just have to reserve judgement until I actually see the movie. I'm sure the filmmakers will have put their best efforts into all aspects of TF design.

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Movie reality?

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