biggest mistake?

anna · Post by **anna** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:46 pm

we all know they made mucho errors in the old show (like divide and conquer showing shockwave among fallen autobots just before optimus reappears) but what was the biggest error? i tend to think it was return of optimus primes dead all fixed prime(in dark awakining he was still alive and falling apart when the star went nova)

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:53 pm

Y'know, I think you just answered your own question. I've just been having a think and nothing worse than that wrecked/unwrecked Prime thing comes to mind. It always bugged the hell out of me 'cos it was so obvious (don't these cartoon makers have eyes?).
Prop designs sometimes changed between episodes too - didn't the Quintesson journal change appearance from one ep to the next? Or am I just remembering that wrong?
Not exactly a mistake, but a contrievance, but Omega Supreme's appearing/disappearing base section when he transformed annoyed me (and Prime's trailer too. Not that it annoyed his trailer - I mean the disappearing nature of it). Or Sky Lynx's occasional triple-changer abilities. Perhaps that kind of thing should be a new topic, eh?

Nope, it HAS to be the thing you mentioned. Unless anyone else can beat it of course...

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:27 pm

Five Faces of Darkness, Part 1, when Cyclonus gives his "Let's bring Galvatron back to us", and Galvatron is seen among cheering Decepticons.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:31 pm

Surely just a standard animation error. Then again, the entire Energon cartoon series could be considered a BIG animation 'error'.
Duplication of characters has always plagued the TF shows. Of course, talking about someone who isn't supposed to be there and then mistakenly putting him in the shot is pretty dumb, I must admit.

Kup_1 · Post by **Kup_1** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:15 am

Ozz wrote:Five Faces of Darkness, Part 1, when Cyclonus gives his "Let's bring Galvatron back to us", and Galvatron is seen among cheering Decepticons.

I never noticed that!

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:45 am

It's definately the Dark Awakening/The Return of Optimus Prime thing. Not only because of the being wrecked/not being wrecked thing, but because the whole storyline seems to have changed. It's tough to believe that a huge space battle in the general area was not noticed by the astronauts.

Pretty much all of Armada was a animation/voice confusion error though. The DA/TROOP thing might have had you scratching your head for a second, but there are large parts of Armada that don't make any rational because of the incredibly shoddy translation. In fact, I'll go on record as suggesting that Armada may be the single worst professional dub in the history of anime. I honestly believe that Headmasters-Victory were dubbed better than this. Sure, some names might have been changed, but you could follow the story with no problem.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:05 am

Two Megatrons.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:34 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:Two Megatrons.

I assume you mean in the comics - the 'Lord Straxus' thing. That was all explained though (kinda - oh the trials of retconning!). Not so much a mistake as the difficulty in trying to write for the same title across two countries and comicbooks. Still hard to make sense of storywise though, I will agree.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:46 pm

I still wonder why Furman did that though. I mean it wouldn't have been hard to alter Megs' dialogue in the UK comic version to say he just was damaged and disoriented after a fight on Cybertron, met Blakcjack and etc rather than the whole "I've been here since US# 25 and the other guy wasn't me".

As for the DA/TROOP thing, I agree that it was screwed up. I heard that the wrtier was given some other version of DA's script to work with rather than see the epeisode. If I had written it I'd have had the Humans see the fighting, and use a teleporter to get Prime off of the ship before it blew, and then the sun nova thing was the result of that bomb detonator Prime's ship set off at the end of DA (you actually do see the twin suns' go nova in DA at the end).

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:54 pm

That's the problem - most scripts were being worked on at the same time, but without much overseeing of the whole series in terms of actual visuals and design.
Pity that the wrecked/unwrecked thing was such a big error that it distracted from the enjoyment of what was a cool set of eps. I was so excited that 'The Touch' played at the end of 'The Return of Optimus Prime'!
Did anyone else think that the Swanson woman was going to become Prime's engine a'la Powermasters? Especially when the Quintesson mentioned Prime's engine was knackered, and then the woman got an exosuit. Also, the video cover in the UK was the picture of Powermaster Prime from the back of the current toy boxes. A big missed opportunuiy perhaps? Certainly a misleading dissapointment, I feel.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:47 pm

ShadowSonic wrote:I still wonder why Furman did that though. I mean it wouldn't have been hard to alter Megs' dialogue in the UK comic version to say he just was damaged and disoriented after a fight on Cybertron, met Blakcjack and etc rather than the whole "I've been here since US# 25 and the other guy wasn't me".

I'm tempted to say that he did it just so we could have Geoff Senior draw us a lovely Megatron Vs Megatron fight. But in truth, I think his US version of Megatron's return was inconsolable with the Megatron that had been around for a couple of years in the UK. So he took the easy "it was all just a dream" kind of option.

Megatron's return in 'Back from the Dead' was so effective it would be a shame to ditch that version either.

As it is, I quite like the long-spanning impact of the clone Megs on the title. It certainly gives us something to talk about.

grymloq · Post by **grymloq** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:49 am

i missed quite a lot of the catoon esp. season three. could someone tell me what happened in the lead up to the return of optimus prime, ive picked up a bit from this topic but id like to konw more.
also when does prime get fixed after he dies in the movie, im assuming these arnt the same deaths as that would be really weird. die on earht end up in a space ship. cheers guys

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:14 am

If i remember correctly, after the movie, all the dead autobots bodies were put onto a giant ship ( a mausoleum SP??). I guess this was seen as an honourary gesture.

In one episode called Dark Awakening ( a great episode) The autobots are being chased by the decepicons and happen to stumble across the ship. Once inside they discover that Prime's tomb is empty. Galvatron attacks and Prime appears to save the day.

However, Prime has been reawkened by the Quintessons (their creators, stupid cartoon origins) and is a zombie designed ti lead the Autobots into a trap.

He bum fluffs Rodimus, takes back the matrix and goes back to Cybertron where he plans to lead the bots into an ambush set up by the Quints.

Predictably Op comes to his senses just in time, saves the rest of the bots but his ship is destroyed. The final scenes you see flashes of Prime's face, missing various bits.

Rodimus becomes leader again. Everyone boooes. Hasbro decide they need Op back full time.

So you then get the 2 parter Return of op episodes. At the start of this some human explorers find Ops body (in misb condition!) and seek to use it to lure the autobots to their lab and infect them with some nasty plague which makes them all hate each other. It all goes tits up and this plague starts spreading across the galaxy. Rodimus decides only Prime can save the day and gets the Quints to reactivate him. Op's alive again, teams up with Galvatron, gets some metal that protects him from the plague, unleashes the disco ball of power and all is well in the world.

I have probably missed loads out. Dark Awakening is a great episode, quite chilling but sadly Op's final sacrifice is cheapend by the wanky and rushed R.O.O.P.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:44 pm

Hound wrote:He bum fluffs Rodimus

I think I missed that bit

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:38 pm

A distinct lack of US #81's/UK #333's.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:12 pm

Rebis wrote:A distinct lack of US #81's/UK #333's.

And G2 #13s.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:19 pm

And Dreamwave anythings...

Backscatter · Post by **Backscatter** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:42 pm

In regards to TROOP, it was once suggested that Prime's ship might have had an "Auto-Doc" like the ARK. "Repair! Repair!". Optimus turned black in the movie when he died, so I guess the Quints restored his colors as well. I was just happy to see Optimus Prime alive again, even though it was way too late to save G1. As for DA, I was saddened the Rhino DVD used the "Don't Worry" message over the episode credits. It was more chilling the first time on TV, when Hasbro intended to leave Prime dead. I still have a copy of that show on a VHS tape.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:25 pm

Backscatter wrote:the Rhino DVD used the "Don't Worry" message over the episode credits.

What's that? I don't remember that (although I haven't watched the ep for ages). Details please.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:52 pm

Autobloke wrote:
Backscatter wrote:the Rhino DVD used the "Don't Worry" message over the episode credits.
What's that? I don't remember that (although I haven't watched the ep for ages). Details please.

Basically on the rerun of DA at the end there was a voice over saying "Don't worry kids, super pants prime will be back again next week in The Return of Optimus Prime" (paraphrased)....

completely spoiling the dramatic moment of Prime's 'death'...

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:53 pm

URGH!

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:55 pm

acutally... thinking about it, i must check my VHS copy of the episode, i've no idea which ending it has... (being in the UK and without cable/satellite at the time i was reduced to having to buy episodes from season #3 on tape *shudder*)

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:57 pm

I've got the UK VHS of that episode (hence my lack of remembering), and it didn't have that ending. Niether did the UK DVD.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:21 pm

ah-ha! cool, that saves me the (huge) effort of going up to my top shelf and getting the vid down!

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:55 pm

The TOP shelf eh? Like in newsagents?

Actually, help me out here:
Biggest mistake in Transformers:
Armada or Energon?

Just got reminded of something while posting on a different topic. That walrus pretender, Longtooth, had a Pretender shell back on Cybertron before they'd even been created on Earth - in that story when Prime had given him a piece of the Matrix centuries ago.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:42 pm

Ah, but would you have recognised him in the flashbacks if they'd used his inner robot?

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:03 pm

They could have used his name. Although, why ANY Transformer would be called 'Longtooth' when his robot mode probably doesn't HAVE teeth - long or otherwise - is beyond me.
The writers should have just used a less stupid character in the story. Like Doubleheader perhaps.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:21 am

The reason that they alwasy draw the Pretenders in their Shell modes is two-fold:

1) They're easier for the kids to recognize as their box art

2) Well...their real robot forms kinda suck, I doubt any of the Cons would've accepted Bludgeon as their leader if they saw his real form...

But yeah, that thing with Longtooth didn't make much sense since they made such a hulabaloo over Scorponock making them in the "Pretender to the Throne" story.

Also, did they ever explain how Scorponock's crew developed Combiners (Abominus) when they apparently had no contact with Earth (where Shockwave made the Constructicons) and all tech advances on Cybertron were pretty much Zero as the war drained the planet?

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:03 am

That's quite simple... Combiner technology already existedwhen the TFs left Cybertron, albeit only in early stages.

So when Shockwave created the Constructiocns, they were built with the prototype tech developed millenia ago.

INthe meantime, more advanced combiners already existed on Cybertron. The Earth Bot/Cons got this tech only through matrix vision.

As for Prtenders, well an exo-skeleton tech is important, Scorpy propably traded it for fuel andresources with the Cybertron Cons. Xaaron's Bots got it from Optimus.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:42 pm

ShadowSonic wrote:Well...their real robot forms kinda suck, I doubt any of the Cons would've accepted Bludgeon as their leader if they saw his real form...

How they'd laugh at him. 'Til he cut their heads off.
The only problem with flagging up TF mistakes is that then we try to rationalise them to preserve the integrity of the stories.
It's like deleted scenes on a DVD sometimes. No bad thing, of course.