A Marvel US mystery!

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:06 am

Growing up in the US during the 1980's, all I had available to read was the Marvel US Transformers Comic. Yes, Marvel US did tease us with a reprint of 'Man of Iron', but this was the only window we had into the Marvel UK TF universe (and not a very representative one at that).

Well, now I am reading through the Titan reprints and am finally getting to enjoy many UK TF stories . . . and they are great! It is also interesting to read the foreword of each collection that details the history of Marvel UK TF original stories. But I did find one thing to be very odd. In the foreword of Target 2006, the author mentions that Marvel UK had decided to use characters featured in TF: the Movie because they (meaning Marvel UK) knew from the beginning that Marvel US would not use them in their series.

My question is why would Marvel US decide not to use the TF: TM characters at all???? Now, obviously, some of them trickled in (Kup, Hot Rod, Alternate Universe Galvatron) but this didn't happen until UK frontman, Furman, took over the writing at Marvel US! Wouldn't Hasbro demand that Marvel US include these characters as an advertisement for the toys? Or was Hasbro satisfied with the US TF: TM comic-adaptation??

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:29 am

veritech wrote:My question is why would Marvel US decide not to use the TF: TM characters at all???? Now, obviously, some of them trickled in (Kup, Hot Rod, Alternate Universe Galvatron) but this didn't happen until UK frontman, Furman, took over the writing at Marvel US!

Never read the Headmasters mini-series? It introduced the Headmasters and Targetmasters (who include, Kup, Hot Rod and Blurr) in a plotline that was then shoe-horned into the main storyline.

Furman didn't take over the US scripting until Megatron returned, which was about a year later. By then, they'd already adapted Big Broadcast, which was firmly set in the post-movie future (albeit, the cartoon continuity...).

Scraplet · Post by **Scraplet** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:30 am

I don't think Hasbro could complain about the rate at which new characters were introduced into the US comic - my main gripe would be that Budansky never got chance to develop decent characters or plots because he had to shoehorn umpteen new characters into each issue. This normally involved several pages of pretenders/headmasters/throttlebots/micromasters stood around speaking each others names so that we knew who the hell they were

If he had tried to merge the ongoing plot with a '2005' plot it would have ground to a halt.

Anyway, Hasbro had the cartoon and the movie to sell galvatron and Rodimus Prime to the masses.

Thank god for the UK comic, Furman, and plot development!

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:09 am

Rebis wrote:
veritech wrote:My question is why would Marvel US decide not to use the TF: TM characters at all???? Now, obviously, some of them trickled in (Kup, Hot Rod, Alternate Universe Galvatron) but this didn't happen until UK frontman, Furman, took over the writing at Marvel US!
Never read the Headmasters mini-series? It introduced the Headmasters and Targetmasters (who include, Kup, Hot Rod and Blurr) in a plotline that was then shoe-horned into the main storyline.

Furman didn't take over the US scripting until Megatron returned, which was about a year later. By then, they'd already adapted Big Broadcast, which was firmly set in the post-movie future (albeit, the cartoon continuity...).

Right . . . . I remember that those three were introduced in Headmasters (along with Scourge and Cyclonus??). Did the US issues ever introduce Ultra Magnus? Springer? Arcee? To be honest, I cannot remember.

Don't get me started on the 'Big Broadcast' issues. That was not my favorite story from the cartoon to begin with and then to have to wait through 2 months of a poorly drawn comic version of it . . .excruciating!!!

Did the UK issues ever attempt to reconcile the double appearances of the 2005/2006 characters appearing in the present and the future?

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:42 am

In US, Arcee and Ultra Magnus only appeared in The Movie adaptation and 'Big Broadcast'. Springer was also seen in a couple of scenes in Generation 2 series.

As for The Movie characters in UK series, Hot Rod, Ultra Magnus, Kup and Blurr were around in the 80's and their future personas were simply them 20 years later. Arcee was created in 1995 (see UK # 234). Cyclonus and Scourge were thrown back in time at the end of 'Legacy of Unicron' and that's how they show up in 'Headmasters' mini (and later in 'Wrecking Havoc', 'Dry Run' and 'Time Wars').

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:18 pm

Thank God Marvel US wasn't forced to shift the comic's events forward 20 years to keep in line with the movie. It would have killed it there and then. I think its surprising that Hasbro didn't push for more promotion of their movie characters, but artistically it would have been destructive. And, at the end of the day, not only was there the cartoon, but the movie and Big Broadcast adaptations might have been enough.

And the comic did a much better job promoting the '87 to '90 toylines than the cartoon obviously.

Hope that made sense. I'm very hungover.

So Veritech, any favourite UK stories?

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:13 pm

spiderfrommars wrote: So Veritech, any favourite UK stories?

Well, to be honest, I am just now starting the UK stories. I have picked up all but 2 of the Titan reprints (Dinobot Hunt and Second Generation) and have paged through most of Target 2006. I am amazed at how coherent the story is. I don't feel like the writer is "talking down" to me or dumbing down the story to fit a target audience of children. I think that the time travel aspect of this story is very complex . . . or at least as complex as 'the Terminator" and other Hollywood films (excepting maybe 12 Monkeys). And wow . . . the autobots make some really bad command decisions, huh?

I always felt that Marvel US comics were playing to the 'STAR' comics audience . . . and that worked for me as a kid but now I can barely go back and read some of that material.

Now that I think about it, when TF:TM came out, I didn't get to see it in the theatre. Then, Season 3 of the cartoon began 20 years in the furture and I had no clue what was going on. I didn't get it until I viewed TF:TM on homevideo. But at the time I really missed old Optimus and the gang!!

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:13 pm

I just finished Target: 2006 for the first time and was really, really impressed. I actually think that this is story is superior to Simon Furman's Marvel US material, mainly because he was obviously telling a story that he wanted to tell instead of trying to confine himself within the binds of Marvel US continuity or Cartoon continuity. You have to admit, furman had to tie up alot of loose ends in his Marvel US run.

I was amazed at how Target:2006 wrapped itself around TF:TM and the Marvel US storyline *if you can call it that* without compromising either!

Actually, in light of the last 20 issues of Marvel US and Furman's G2 series, I'm not quite sure how Target: 2006 would manage to shoehorn itself in continuity-wise. But forgetting all of that, I was totally impressed and this is definitely one I will read again.

Hey, I have a question . . .

what is the reading order of the Titan Marvel UK reprints??

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:22 am

Personally I think T2006 is one of the great comic stories ever, not only TFs. The TPB can stand proud as a great bit of comic storytelling. Furman's really at the top of his game - there's the brilliant narrative tricks in issues 81 and 83, and then the blockbusting action of issue 86. At 11 issues, incredibly ambitious. Furman's US stuff had more momentum probably, but his early UK stuff (I'm thinking Dinobot Hunt and The Harder They Die in particular here as well) seemed to have more intensity and experimentilism.

Sadly there's not a straightforward reading order to the Titan reprints, as the comics are showcased somewhat haphazardly. If you want to follow the rest of the Galvatron affair then the best order is Target 2006, Fallen Angel, Space Pirates and Time Wars. The impact isn't quite the same as the originals though - Galvatron's arc originally took place over 100 issues, but reading them in the TPBs rather repeatedly hits you over the head with it.

Post by **Denyer** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:17 pm

veritech wrote:what is the reading order of the Titan Marvel UK reprints??

My best guess: http://tfarchive.com/comics/trades/

veritech wrote:I am amazed at how coherent the story is. I don't feel like the writer is "talking down" to me

Yup. And some things (such as the rows of crucified Autobots in "Space Pirates") are things you'd never expect in kids' comics, retaining the ability to shock and move. The fact most characters are robots gave them a great deal of flexibility.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:02 pm

Denyer wrote:
My best guess: http://tfarchive.com/comics/trades/

Wouldn't Prey read better after T2006?

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:26 pm

Denyer wrote:
veritech wrote:what is the reading order of the Titan Marvel UK reprints??
My best guess: http://tfarchive.com/comics/trades/

The table layout is all wrong in my browser, so it's difficult to see the UK trades. But I'd have to say that Prey should really go straight after Target: 2006, and City of Fear belongs between Legacy of Unicron and Space Pirates.

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:21 pm

Okay, let me get this straight:

Dinobot Hunt
Second Generation
Target: 2006
Prey
Fallen Angel
Legacy of Unicron
City of Fear
Space Pirates
Time Wars

Did I leave any out?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:58 pm

No, but there's a new one coming out called Aspects of Evil, the first reprints of the UK black and white stuff.

That list is the closest you'll probably get to a coherent order. Not perfect though - the Dinobot Hunt TPB has some stories set after the Second Generation TPB, and the City of Fear TPB has some stories set after the Space Pirates TPB, etc. But give it a shot.

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:02 pm

I finished the "Fallen Angel" TPB last night and I can say that, while not near as good as Target:2006, I enjoyed it quite a bit. The characterization of Magnus was great. And I especially enjoyed the suprise twist of only Galvatron remaining when all the future autobots are remitted to the future. That was cool.

But what is the deal with Wrek-Gar creating Goldbug? Now it has been a while since I read my Marvel US comics, but i'm sure that Bumblebee's transformation to Goldbug was dealt with pretty specifically there. How did the UK issues deal with this?

On to Legacy of Unicron!

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:07 pm

Goldbug's creation was covered in the American Marvel TF/Joe crossover. Now, that was never printed in the UK, so we had our own version of Goldbug's creation in the UK comic. Of course, his creation wasn't shown in the main US TF title either, so its easy to discount the awful crossover story and have the UK version be the official Goldbug origin.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:26 pm

UK!!!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:31 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:Goldbug's creation was covered in the American Marvel TF/Joe crossover. Now, that was never printed in the UK

Due to the GI Joe reprinting as Action Force being so far behind (many years, in fact!), but they did print it in the latter 200s as filler while they waited for the US TF to get a significant lead again. Also, Furman was stateside by then, so he wasn't efficiently able to manage both titles simultaneously.

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:45 pm

Well, US or UK versions notwithstanding, what was the reasoning behind turning Bumblebee into Goldbug? I mean, Bumblebee was one of the most popular characters!

I don't remember what Goldbug's techspec said, maybe it said he was a rebuilt Bumblebee. In that case, Marvel had no choice. You know, I have the goldbug figure and it is nothing to write home about. I think that the term, "Brick" applies here.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:17 pm

It was Hasbro's fault.

They figured they'd killed off two of everybody's fave characters (Prime and Megs) and must have been on a roll...

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:34 pm

Goldbug had no arms!!! no arms!!! His little doors swung out and that was it!

Also, Goldbug had a pull back motor didn't he? what subset category was he in?

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:35 pm

He was a Throttlebot.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:43 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:Goldbug's creation was covered in the American Marvel TF/Joe crossover. Now, that was never printed in the UK, so we had our own version of Goldbug's creation in the UK comic. Of course, his creation wasn't shown in the main US TF title either, so its easy to discount the awful crossover story and have the UK version be the official Goldbug origin.

Except that it gets fairly explicitly referenced in the G2/GI Joe crossover.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:52 pm

Bouncelot wrote:
spiderfrommars wrote:Goldbug's creation was covered in the American Marvel TF/Joe crossover. Now, that was never printed in the UK, so we had our own version of Goldbug's creation in the UK comic. Of course, his creation wasn't shown in the main US TF title either, so its easy to discount the awful crossover story and have the UK version be the official Goldbug origin.
Except that it gets fairly explicitly referenced in the G2/GI Joe crossover.

For the UKers, there's always Ancient Relics to explain that away.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:28 am

Rebis wrote:
Bouncelot wrote:
spiderfrommars wrote:Goldbug's creation was covered in the American Marvel TF/Joe crossover. Now, that was never printed in the UK, so we had our own version of Goldbug's creation in the UK comic. Of course, his creation wasn't shown in the main US TF title either, so its easy to discount the awful crossover story and have the UK version be the official Goldbug origin.
Except that it gets fairly explicitly referenced in the G2/GI Joe crossover.
For the UKers, there's always Ancient Relics to explain that away.

Doesn't explain how Mindbender recognises a Decepticon though.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:31 am

Not a big deal IMO. Mindbender can know what a 'con looks like without having met one before.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:24 pm

that purpel symbol gives it away...

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:59 pm

How does Ancient Relics explain away the Goldbug creation story?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:48 pm

It doesn't, but Ancient Relics was a UK crossover between the TFs and Action Force (G I Joe). So in UK continuity the likes of Flint, Scarlett and others met the TFs (well Megs, Grimlock and Blades mainly).

Summaries here:

http://www.transfans.net/comics_guide_d ... 137&page=7
http://www.transfans.net/comics_guide_d ... 560&page=1
http://www.transfans.net/comics_guide_d ... 561&page=1
http://www.transfans.net/comics_guide_d ... 562&page=1
http://www.transfans.net/comics_guide_d ... 564&page=1

It's unlikely to get reprinted.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:35 pm

I much preferred Goldbug to Bumblebee.

Sue me.

TransFans.co.uk

A Marvel US mystery!

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