A Marvel US mystery!

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:10 am

spiderfrommars wrote:Not a big deal IMO. Mindbender can know what a 'con looks like without having met one before.

Yeah, but how and when did he learn about the difference between Autobot and Decepticon when so many other characters don't seem to know?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:44 am

He kept himself abreast of current affairs.

Triple-I knew about the two factions of Transformers, they just refused to believe it was anything other than a charade, why wouldn't anyone else?

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:08 am

I was thinking about it too.. Methinks they know it, but even now, you can tell if the Americans are the good guys in these wars of now?

I think they viewed both factions as equally dangerous. In my retcon of the Marvel stuff for a (possible) Marvel cartoon, my idea was that instead of the Mechanic, the III's agents infiltrate the Ark during Optimus's memorial.

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:23 pm

Ok, I just finished up the "Legacy of Unicron" trade and was very impressed. While not as clever as "Target:2006", it was at least as good as "Fallen Angel", maybe better.

Remember that these reviews are coming from a person that followed almost the entire US series in the 1980's and, apart from "Man of Iron" reprints in the US series, had no idea that TF was flourishing (and getting better stories) in the UK!

Now, to the questions: it is explained that Scourge and Cyclonus reappeared in the past and ended up under the command of Scorponok, thus setting them in place for US Headmasters series. But where did Death's Head go? Did he ever reappear in the TF universe? Is this how he ended up in the Marvel mainstream universe?

Also, does the UK comic ever explain how Galvatron escaped from the volcano? I realize that Ultra Magnus' escape is chronicled in the 'Space Pirates'.

I just began "Space Pirates" and skimmed 'Salvage'. Ultra Magnus is beginning to become my favorite character . . . he never was before. He really has been stretched to his limits, yet manages to find the strength to keep going, you know! Marvel US never had this type of characterization . . . for the most part.

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:48 pm

veritech wrote:Now, to the questions: it is explained that Scourge and Cyclonus reappeared in the past and ended up under the command of Scorponok, thus setting them in place for US Headmasters series. But where did Death's Head go? Did he ever reappear in the TF universe? Is this how he ended up in the Marvel mainstream universe?

After Legacy of Unicron, Death's Head appeared in Doctor Who Magazine #135 (where he was downsized), then in Dragon's Claws #5 and then in his own series, which took place in regular Marvel universe. I think.

veritech wrote:Also, does the UK comic ever explain how Galvatron escaped from the volcano? I realize that Ultra Magnus' escape is chronicled in the 'Space Pirates'.

In Ladies' Night, though I don't know in which TPB it is collected.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:54 pm

veritech wrote: Ultra Magnus is beginning to become my favorite character . . . he never was before. He really has been stretched to his limits, yet manages to find the strength to keep going, you know! Marvel US never had this type of characterization . . . for the most part.

Nicely put. A popular character in the UK and it was nice to have his presence around after Prime kicked the bucket in Afterdeath. Its a shame Magnus eventually got forgotten about.

Post by **snarl** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:29 pm

Magnus was treated with contempt around the late 100's - real shame they did a lot of great work with him.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:32 pm

Veritech, what do you make of the artists?

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:20 pm

Well, I don't have my tpbs with me, so I don't know all the names, but I can tell you that I do have my favorites. The art . . . especially in 'Target 2006' is sometimes sketchy . . . almost looking like fan art at some points, but the story really transcends the art, which says alot about the story element of that series.

Off the top of my head I really enjoy Geoff Senior's art.

But you know, the art for most of the US series was subpar.

kevinjohnson999 · Post by **kevinjohnson999** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:28 am

On the Furman Magnus characterisation, I agree it was great. The way Galvatron haunted Magnus, and the way he got over it, along with other aspects of Magnus' character that were explored by Furman. The only Characterisation of Magnus I ever saw in US continuity was in 'BB of 2006', which IMO prtrayed Magnus as a bit of a loser.

bobaprime85 · Post by **bobaprime85** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:01 pm

kevinjohnson999 wrote:On the Furman Magnus characterisation, I agree it was great. The way Galvatron haunted Magnus, and the way he got over it, along with other aspects of Magnus' character that were explored by Furman. The only Characterisation of Magnus I ever saw in US continuity was in 'BB of 2006', which IMO prtrayed Magnus as a bit of a loser.

Well, that was to be expected, since it was based off of an episode of the crap-tastic cartoon. An especially bad one, at that. I know many (myself included) were hoping that WW would finally return Magnus to the Furman-induced greatness he came from, especially after his "characterization" in Vol.2.

veritech · Post by **veritech** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:37 am

Yeah, to be honest, I really had a hard time accepting that Ultra Magnus would follow Shockwave.

But if Furman's take on the character taught us anything, it was that Magnus is a flawed character . . . and that is what is so endearing about his character.

Now, we have other TF characters who are filled with self-doubt and and self-loathing (Optimus and Rodimus), but that aspect of their character is played out too much . . . to the point it is a cliche! It becomes unbelievable. For instance, after Optimus is captured early in G2 by the G2 Decepticon, Prime automatically believes them and gives in to despair. Only Grimlock is able to take charge and essentially become Prime's Cheerleader. Again, in DW's Vol.2, Prime begins to believe that he is become obsolete and delves into despair. My point is that if Prime is such a legendary leader, why does he give up so easily??

Magnus, however, is thrust into positions beyond his control and manages to overcome, but not before becoming scarred. And, he doesn't always win!

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:25 am

veritech wrote:My point is that if Prime is such a legendary leader, why does he give up so easily??

Being a legendary leader doesn't necessarily mean that you live up to the legend. Prime's an idealist, and his idealism often comes into conflict with reality. He's also the only person who's aware of his faults. Because of his legendary status, there are very few people who might criticise him, so of course he becomes his own worst critic.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:43 am

Bouncelot wrote:
Being a legendary leader doesn't necessarily mean that you live up to the legend. Prime's an idealist, and his idealism often comes into conflict with reality. He's also the only person who's aware of his faults. Because of his legendary status, there are very few people who might criticise him, so of course he becomes his own worst critic.

One of the best posts on Prime's character I've seen.

Dead Head · Post by **Dead Head** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:27 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:(Ultra Magnus) A popular character in the UK and it was nice to have his presence around after Prime kicked the bucket in Afterdeath. Its a shame Magnus eventually got forgotten about.

snarl wrote:Magnus was treated with contempt around the late 100's - real shame they did a lot of great work with him.

Yes and yes.

Ultra Magnus was about to be decently used in TWW volume 3 too. A rare aspect of lamentation about Dreamwave's demise.

Going back to the UK comic, I had imagined that UM would have gained much confidence after slaying his 'demon image' of Galvatron at the end of Salvage, and that that would be the ideal platform for setting him up for another great fall against another Galvatron/Jhiaxus/whoever 'monster' type. He's interesting when things are going relatively well (like when kicking zombie ass with Flywheels/Sparklers) but even better when under severe duress.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:16 am

[quote="BB Shockwave"]I was thinking about it too.. Methinks they know it, but even now, you can tell if the Americans are the good guys in these wars of now?

I think they viewed both factions as equally dangerous. In my retcon of the Marvel stuff for a (possible) Marvel cartoon, my idea was that instead of the Mechanic, the III's agents infiltrate the Ark during Optimus's memorial.[/quote

That's brilliant, man.

So how were you going to deal with Op and Megatron's deaths? I know there wouldn't be any "Afterdeath" in this happy cartoon.

I just last year read the Titan TPBs. They were incredible. My favorite was actually "Time Wars." I need to buy Prey, Second Generation, Dinobot Hunt and Aspects of Evil, actually, though I read most of them online at the old Transfans.com.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:19 am

Well let's suffice to say there is an "Afterdeath", however it doesn't end like the comic did. After all, we need OP's conciousness stored on a huge hard drive (not a friggin floppy!!!) for the future storylines.

And Megs "death" was one of Budiansky's great stories, though I will alter it in some way (especially since the Predacons are doing this the second time around...)