Don Murphy...

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:20 pm

Sounds good Nosecone.

Now for something else: I see a Brendocon there.

Nosecone · Post by **Nosecone** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:27 pm

http://www.d13satellite.com/donmurphy/s ... #post57559

To be honest the more I read posts here the more I am convinced the movie will be a flop.

Everyone here expects Don to put in every last bit of fanboy material with little or no thought actually given to the most important part, the story.

No matter how important and big a fanbase you think transformers has it is tiny when compared to the figures needed in order to be a sucess at the box office. Most people who wil go and see it (assuming it is a success) will not know that half the stuff you want put into it, all they will care about is seeing big transforming robots, lots of action and a good story.

I need two examples to proove this, the first is the Dreamwave comics which have flopped. Many people have theories on this but ultimatly you can't deny that sales had dropped after the first series, by placing so many fanboy wank references in every comic and basically making it a compilation of bits of the cartoon they alienated a large proportion of the casual fanbase who might of seen the comic, had good memories of tf as a kid but hadn't seen it since so had no idea or didn't really care if Prime said "one shall stand one shall fall".

The second example(s) to proove how doing your own thing and not listening to rabid fans can work are the X-Men films. These moved away from following the typical story with set characters and kept parts but made sure characters were treated well and the story was put ahead of Wolverine wearing yelllow spandex (intended). This allowed the casual fan to enjoy the film who perhaps didn't know the full origin of Wolverine or Cyclops whilst still placing cameos and little hints every now and again for the fan to enjoy (the spandex issue above).

The only way this movie has anychance of being a sucess is if it basically throws away the cartoon association and makes up its own story, if it needs any inspiration on transformer stories that adults enjoy there are plenty of sources, first of all the UK comic (later Issues) as that was still going in the early 90's when many of us fans were in our teens and it was no longer able to use childish plots to keep us reading it, Beast Wars also had some good stories that actually has brought a lot of adult fans backinto the fandom (whether you dislike animal tfs is irrelevent the stories are good) and there is even a whole host of fandom fictioni at the hub - A website run by people who have been writing tf fiction since the uk comic was cancelled and has even spawned a paperback book from it called Eugenesis (again another good read to get an idea of adult stories) -> opps, sorry I said I'd only name one film but I have another example of success where the story was placed before the desires of fans, The Lord of the Rings, if Peter Jackson had listened to fans screaming for Scouring of Shire and Tom Bombadil or the wolf attack on the way to Caradras then who knows how the film would of ended up

Of course if it wants to basically be a feature length cartoon like in 1984 and target Children (which was the target of the cartoon) then it may as well be fully animated as it would probably be a lot cheaper and easier to produce but as I suspect Don wants to make a film for adults (i.e a 12A certificate) then he should concentrate on the story more than meeting the demands of rabid fans

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:03 pm

Well said.

To put it bluntly, I'm embarrased. My fellow TF fans have embarrased me.

All fandoms are prone to grumbling, but if you want to compare 'Transfans' with the average Star Wars fan, Trekkie, LOTR, Spidey, Superman, Xmen, Batman fan, whatever, you'd never find a more fractured, close-minded, intellectually challenged, anal and downright immature fandom as ours.

There, I said I'd be blunt.

Stormwolf · Post by **Stormwolf** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:53 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:Well said.

To put it bluntly, I'm embarrased. My fellow TF fans have embarrased me.

All fandoms are prone to grumbling, but if you want to compare 'Transfans' with the average Star Wars fan, Trekkie, LOTR, Spidey, Superman, Xmen, Batman fan, whatever, you'd never find a more fractured, close-minded, intellectually challenged, anal and downright immature fandom as ours.

There, I said I'd be blunt.

That's pretty accurate.

Post by **Kaylee** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:45 pm

All summed up nicely

Reason No. 4762/C why Transformers is unlikely to become a proper Sci-Fi franchise rather than just a sort of half-cult interest more remembered through the eyes of nostalgia than given propery justice by most of its alleged fans.

That said of course, I still think Don Murphy is a pretty dislikeable individual- his posts, that I've read on there, I feel are the sort of self-indulgent arrogance I'd expect from an adolescent talking to his gang of friends.

Hopefully the movie will be watchable. Anything else is a bonus really, in my eyes.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:39 am

I think, given TF's toy roots, a much more applicable comparison would be "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turltes".

To me, things like X-Men or LOTR or Star Wars are light years ahead of Transformers. I think a part of that is due to the fact that the people who liked LOTR or X-Men when they first came out are now old and gray, while the people who liked G1 TF are still (relatively) young.

But I think a larger part is due to the fact that they are seen as fiction which turned into toys, not toys that turned into fiction. That's the reality of the lens through which the world sees TF. It's not even given the respect that something like Gundam or Robotech has in some circles, because since Hasbro is there, it's hard for a lot of people to see the connecion between TF and modern robot manga/anime.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:49 am

what sucks is it could be a really cool film - but because alot of the TF fan base is frealing stupid, its gonna carry over and make it cack-o-mundo

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:29 pm

Nosecone wrote: The second example(s) to proove how doing your own thing and not listening to rabid fans can work are the X-Men films. These moved away from following the typical story with set characters and kept parts but made sure characters were treated well and the story was put ahead of Wolverine wearing yelllow spandex (intended). This allowed the casual fan to enjoy the film who perhaps didn't know the full origin of Wolverine or Cyclops whilst still placing cameos and little hints every now and again for the fan to enjoy (the spandex issue above).

On the other hand, they resulted in a drawn-out and completly uninteresting movie, where most of the characters were given only marginal characterisation, sometimes bordering the ridiculous... (see Pyro in United).

Nosecone wrote:The only way this movie has anychance of being a sucess is if it basically throws away the cartoon association and makes up its own story, if it needs any inspiration on transformer stories that adults enjoy there are plenty of sources, first of all the UK comic (later Issues) as that was still going in the early 90's when many of us fans were in our teens and it was no longer able to use childish plots to keep us reading it, Beast Wars also had some good stories that actually has brought a lot of adult fans backinto the fandom (whether you dislike animal tfs is irrelevent the stories are good) and there is even a whole host of fandom fictioni at the hub - A website run by people who have been writing tf fiction since the uk comic was cancelled and has even spawned a paperback book from it called Eugenesis (again another good read to get an idea of adult stories)

Agreed, except with the fandom stories. Most of them think that killing off characters left and right (kingdom of the blind), introducing multiple Unicrons (continued G2) and 10 page long fight scenes (Globequake) or new relationships (Star Saber as Prime's brother (o Brother...), Ultra Magnus as Scrounge rebuilt) are enough for a good story.

I have read countless fanfics and honestly, I haven't found one that even hits the mark as high as Furman's worst stories. That's why I have never published my own ones as well...

Nosecone wrote: -> opps, sorry I said I'd only name one film but I have another example of success where the story was placed before the desires of fans, The Lord of the Rings, if Peter Jackson had listened to fans screaming for Scouring of Shire and Tom Bombadil or the wolf attack on the way to Caradras then who knows how the film would of ended up

I agree these were left out to make the film shorter and easier to understand. However, things like making Faramir into Boromir v2.0 or the idiotic "Frodo believes Sam has betrayed him" stuff in ROTK have seriously devaluated the triology. I loved FOTR, liked TTT and yawned ower ROTK...

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:15 pm

What can I say, except that I agree with almost everything you BB Shockwave said.

Except the LOTR stuff, I think. I didn't think it was so bad, but then I'm not a rabid LOTR fan, only having read the original trilogy once, at the age of 13-14.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:29 am

spiderfrommars wrote:I quite like this guy's attitude. And he promises "No cute kid sidekicks."

But then what is the first reply he gets?

Kevin wrote:NO SPIKE AND SPARKPLUG?!?!?!?!?!?

*sob*

Good luck anyway.

You f**k.

thats quite possibly the most upsetting thing i have ever read.

who the hell gives a crap about the Witwicketwaketywonketies?

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:what sucks is it could be a really cool film - but because alot of the TF fan base is frealing stupid, its gonna carry over and make it cack-o-mundo

This of course, has already happened with the comic relaunch.

fan fic ahoy.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:23 pm

No cute sidekicks does not, in my mind, equal no Witwickys, considering the Witwickys are a father and his son in his late teens/early twenties.

And to me, it's not "Oh, the Witwicky's are so cool, they better be in the movie," it's "Well, you're already said humans are going to play a big part, and chances are you're going to have some de facto Joe Average person/family befriend the Autobots who knows how the Autobots are good guys. So if you're already going to have that, you might as well call them the Witwickys."

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:52 pm

for a film to have mass public appeal some humans would have to be init.
but maybe they can just be squished

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:07 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:for a film to have mass public appeal some humans would have to be init.

Incredibly true, and highly disheartening that it's a practical requirement for any and all movies these days. I'd love to see someone have the cahones to do without "the human factor" just once. I'd watch it.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:26 pm

The Dark Crystal?

Post by **Computron** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:38 pm

When the film is released we should disguise Transfans as a Transvestite fanclub until the shame from the film blows over.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:40 pm

Or possibly host pictures of solenoids and tesla coils.

spiderfrommars wrote:The Dark Crystal?

IT'S A PUPPET!!!

Fraggles would probably count, if they steered clear of the lighthouse...

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:41 pm

Computron wrote:When the film is released we should disguise Transfans as a Transvestite fanclub until the shame from the film blows over.

You were suggesting that even before the movie was announced...

Post by **Best First** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:38 pm

and when we go to unlock the safe to restore the site to its defaults they will have mysteriously dissapeared...

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:43 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:The Dark Crystal?

Never seen/heard of it. Should I take the time?

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:39 pm

Computron wrote:When the film is released we should disguise Transfans as a Transvestite fanclub until the shame from the film blows over.

That's funny because in my other group, we disguised our Transvestite message board as a Transformer fanclub until the fame of "Hedwig and the Angry Inch" blew over.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:48 am

Señior's Covenant wrote:
spiderfrommars wrote:The Dark Crystal?
Never seen/heard of it. Should I take the time?

If you get a chance to, sure.
It's a difficult film to describe, really. Fantasy-quest type affair but with what are basically slightly higher-tech muppets; and it's played straight. It can tend to scare little kids, so that's obviously a bonus point right away.
http://www.fast-rewind.com/darkcrystal.htm might give you an idea if it's your cup of tea.

I used to think it was tops, but I don't really watch it anymore. Still love the Chamberlain, tho. He's ace.

.........
What was this thread about again? Don's forum? Bag of spanners, that lot.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:32 am

Obviously it works better if you watched it when you were young - like most things, the nostalgia factor bumps these things up a bit in peoples' estimations.

But if you're coming to it fresh, I'm sure you'd still appreciate the imagination thats gone into it, and its pretty dark stuff. (Jim Henson, the director, obviously got bored of doing cheery muppet stuff).