Marvel TF cartoon...

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:09 am

Well... I just saw the "new" TMNT cartoon, and was first taken aback (what's this new setup?) Until a little net-search made me realise they are re-doing the original Mirage comics, which are above the original TMNT cartoon as much as the Marvel TF comic was above the Sunbow cartoon.

So I was thinking... if TMNT can re-do the original comic as a cartoon, even make toys of them... why can't Marvel do a TF cartoon for Hasbro?

Wouldn't it be great to see stories like Smelting Pool, Crisis of Command, Time Wars, Matrix Quest or EDge of Extinction on screen?

And since these were Marvel stories, Marvel must still have the rights to make them...

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:25 am

Marvel would have the rights to the stories, but they would no longer have the rights to use the characters.

Same reason DW can't use Death's Head.

Dead Head · Post by **Dead Head** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:00 pm

BB Shockwave wrote:why can't Marvel do a TF cartoon for Hasbro?

They did. A 3-and-a-bit-seasons Marvel/Sunbow cartoon from 1984-87 called "The Transformers".

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:07 pm

I thought Marvel only wrote the character profiles for that...

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:43 pm

Marvel created the characters, but Hasbro put up the money so they owned them.

If Hasbro decided to animate the original Marvel Comics I'm sure it would pretty good. Better than Armada and Energon at least.

We can keep the good (Bob's earlier work, he was still a good writer) and ditch the bad (Give Prime a better death, lose the first half of Matrix Quest, have the deaths in Underbase be better animated). Like how the New TMNT takes most of the elements of the original series but put them in differant order (That whole 8 part story with the Triceratrons and the Utrom was in the first 6 issues of the series!)

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:29 pm

That's what I was thinking too!

And they could make the stories after Edge of Extinction longer, introduce the other Action Masters, etc. Simon once mentioned his plans about that part.

Stormwolf · Post by **Stormwolf** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:36 pm

That would rock, and it would finally make those pesky "cartoon only" fans forget about the original cartoon.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:40 pm

Stormwolf wrote:That would rock, and it would finally make those pesky "cartoon only" fans forget about the original cartoon.

Oh, I'm sure they'd find a way to complain.

"It's doesn't fit with the original continuity! I don't understand!"
"Shockwave never acted like that!"
"Rumble's the wrong colour!"
"It hasn't got enough Starscream in!"
"Soundwave shouldn't be talking normally like that!"

And so on. :-/

Stormwolf · Post by **Stormwolf** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:05 pm

Brendocon wrote: Oh, I'm sure they'd find a way to complain.

"It's doesn't fit with the original continuity! I don't understand!"
"Shockwave never acted like that!"
"Rumble's the wrong colour!"
"It hasn't got enough Starscream in!"
"Soundwave shouldn't be talking normally like that!"

Or how about:

"It has a story and makes sense, the original cartoon never had that!"
"Holy crap! I just saw a Autobot die in a smelting pool, that never happend in the orginal cartoon!"
"Oh no, Grimlock is smart, he's supposed to be stupid because he transforms into a Dinosaur!"
"The Decepticons won! My fragile little mind just got scarred!"

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:17 pm

"They've discarded standalone episodes in favour of coherent story-arcs and character progression!"

Stormwolf · Post by **Stormwolf** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:09 pm

lol

Back on topic, we'd get all kinds of reactions from people who never read the original comic. I bet tons of them would think that the stories have never been done before.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:09 pm

If they did do this, how would you put the stories in order? I mean, we should probably ignore the early Furman work he did as filler in between #4 (Where Shockwave killed everyone) to #5 (The beginning of the New Order Plot). Mainly because it doesn't fit with continuity and honestly they weren't as good as Bob's earlier works.

We should keep most of Bob's stuff up to #24, change how Prime died, but keep it until #40 or so. There we can keep the Underbase Saga but ditch the "Skullgrin" and "Roadjammers" stories.

Also, get rid of the first three parts of Matrix Quest and just cut to the bits with Thunderwing finding it on Cameron.

Also, have the Matrix originally be a computer program/energy in Prime's mind, then have him implant it into the container device. This preserves continuity between what Bob established it to be vs the Movie version Furman used.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:33 pm

That's a good idea.

But Matrix Quest part 1. was good... and the other two could be re-written. Honestly, the Triggerbots and the 1989 Pretenders did shine in other stories (Race with the DEvil, Longtooth's shame, White Fire) so I don't see why Simon couldn't give them a better storyline.

Stormwolf · Post by **Stormwolf** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:38 pm

ShadowSonic wrote:If they did do this, how would you put the stories in order? I mean, we should probably ignore the early Furman work he did as filler in between #4 (Where Shockwave killed everyone) to #5 (The beginning of the New Order Plot). Mainly because it doesn't fit with continuity and honestly they weren't as good as Bob's earlier works.

We should keep most of Bob's stuff up to #24, change how Prime died, but keep it until #40 or so. There we can keep the Underbase Saga but ditch the "Skullgrin" and "Roadjammers" stories.

Also, get rid of the first three parts of Matrix Quest and just cut to the bits with Thunderwing finding it on Cameron.

Also, have the Matrix originally be a computer program/energy in Prime's mind, then have him implant it into the container device. This preserves continuity between what Bob established it to be vs the Movie version Furman used.

I like those ideas, here's some of my suggestions:

1. Make better relations between the UK and US stories, they could mention events from "Prey" when Prime dies for real later on.

2. Give Soundwave a normal voice, face it, the cartoon voice isn't really suited for long lines.

3. 1 cartoon cameo (Alpha Trion standing in the shadows somewhere), just to shut the cartoon fans up.

4. leave out the "Big broadcast of 2006", it's got to be the worst comic ever

5. change part 1 of the Underbase saga, the Decepticon holliday resort sucked about as much ass as a regular cartoon episode.

6. Give Grimlock some lines like "You think me stupid because me transform into Dinosaur and have speech-defect?" "What kind of childish reasoning that be?". Those diehard "Grimlock must be stupid fans" will completely go insane when they hear that.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:30 pm

I don't see why Alpha Trion is so hated, at least he showed he could get off his butt and lead troops (A3).

Why not merge him and Xaaron together into one character? Sorta like Eastman and Laird made the Shredder and Krang the same character in the new TMNT TV show?

I agree, Underbase itself wasn't so bad, just the art and the first part. Have the Club be run by androids controlled by the Decepticons or something rather than the Decepticons themselves while they looked for the Underbase information.

Instead of haveing Headmasters be a seperate mini-series, I have an idea:

We merge "Toy Soldiers" and the story with Blaster and those kids being in space into one episode, constantly sutting back and forth between Goldbug's adventures on Earth and Blaster in space.

The episode would end with Blaster surrendering to Grimlock and Buster being caught by Ratbat. We'd have a to be continued appear...

...And then the next 4 or 5 episodes would be the Headmasters series on Cybertron and Nebulos, it'd drive the fans nuts waiting a month or so to see what would happen to Blaster and Goldbug.

Okay, keep the Triggerbot and Pretender sequences in "Matrix Quest" but give them better stories for God's sake.

And let's cut out the line in Mechanibals about them being able to restore their victims, or maybe just do a similar story (With more believable villains) about Landmine trying to get parts to fix the dead Autobots with.

And I guess if the story was mentioned in the US comic (The Powermasters finding Starscream's zombie body, the Deathbringer story) we can include it in as well.

Some UK stories can be carried over, but not the ones that made people's heads hurt (Two Megatrons and the affect it had on Time Wars, for example)?

Maybe have the Quints for more than one story (Space Pirates). We can merge the Primus and Quints origins together like it's been theorized, since Eastman and Laird took some elements of the kiddy-friendly TMNT cartoon series (Krang) and made them believable and serious.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:51 am

Hmm, I say keep all the UK stories up until Earthforce... those could still be tied into general US continuity.

Heck, even the Wolf saga could be tied into the US line, only they should have change the ending, having Springer ask aid from Optimus' group of Autobots instead of Earthforce. Then show some epilogue of Spinister recovering and returning to Cybertron with Needlenose, where they report to a shadowy figure of THunderwing... Snarler can stay dead, and the three pretenders will have a breakout from the Ark... that would rock, yes?

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:17 am

I'd change something about the Two Megatrons story. It never made sense why the clone ended up under London. It would be simpler to cut it out, and have the Megs in the US stories be the one from Time Wars. And find a convincing way to write out Omega Supreme following Command Performances.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:16 pm

Just say he was permenantly killed at Underbase, that's what really happened.

Just either ignore the Two Megatrons story entirely and say that after Time Wars when he reutrned to Cybertron he got blown into Dead End, was badly damaged and amnesiac, then Blackjack found him.

Or just ignore the UK stories with Megs and have Galvatron be by himself in Time Wars...

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:58 pm

ShadowSonic wrote:
Or just ignore the UK stories with Megs and have Galvatron be by himself in Time Wars...

That would take the fun out of it, no?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 6:40 pm

Yeaahhhhhh. One of the big selling points of Time Wars is that it's Megatron and Galvatron teaming up.

Take Megatron out of it and it's just Galvatron... and you've pretty much got a rerun of Target 2006.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:27 pm

ShadowSonic wrote:Just say he was permenantly killed at Underbase, that's what really happened.

I think that's a reference to Omega. What I want is a convincing way of writing him out between Command PErformances and Target: 2006. He's just too powerful to not end the war at that point.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:39 pm

I'd say shunt him into limbo instead of one of those who did go. But I think it's mainly mass-based, so that wouldn't work.

Off looking for the Dinobots?

The Last Autobot · Post by **The Last Autobot** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:43 pm

Brendocon wrote:
Stormwolf wrote:That would rock, and it would finally make those pesky "cartoon only" fans forget about the original cartoon.

"Rumble's the wrong colour!"

And so on. :-/

And when was Rumble consistently the same color in the comic?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:57 pm

The Last Autobot wrote:And when was Rumble consistently the same color in the comic?

I can't bring any colouring errors to mind regarding the character. Even if occasionally the subject of art errors, Rumble was consistently black and red.

Congratulations on spectacularly missing the point, btw.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:31 pm

The Last Autobot wrote:
And when was Rumble consistently the same color in the comic?

Kind of like, all the time actually - if we're talking Marvel, which, by looking at the thread title, I can see we are.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:57 pm

Bouncelot wrote:
ShadowSonic wrote:Just say he was permenantly killed at Underbase, that's what really happened.
I think that's a reference to Omega. What I want is a convincing way of writing him out between Command PErformances and Target: 2006. He's just too powerful to not end the war at that point.

He was supposedly equal to Devestator wasn't he? Just have Devstator form in Target 2006 and then Galvatron helps him take out Omega together.

Of course, that's not to say Omega's absence in Target 2006 was the only plot hole: What was to stop the Autobots from destroying the cannona fter Galvatron left? If Unicron could control TFs minds why did he bargain with Megs to destroy the Matrix for a new body if he could just reach into the past and influence Shockwave tod estroy the Matrix when he had Prime prisoner?

And Time Wars wasn't very good by the end of it...maybe we should skip the Galvatron stories...

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:11 am

Hmm, now I've got another Q. I'm confused by the Meg Clone (Straxus? Right? Straxus-Megs???). Is the Megatron that was against Galvy in T: 2006 and working with him in Time Wars, as well as the Megs at the end of Generation 2 the same guy?

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:46 am

The Megs in Time Wars is a different guy to the Megs in Target: 2006 and G2, but Target: 2006 and G2 are the same Megs.

The only stories that feature the clone are the UK ones from the Action Force crossover up until Two Megatrons.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:40 pm

The whole "Two Megatrons" storyline is something that sorta makes me prefer the US only continuity compared to the UK one.

Another thing that doesn't make sense: After Time Wars we find out the future has changed into something differant from the regualr future Rodimus and co came from, all the stories set after Target 2006 never happened apparently, so why is Unicron still inside the matrix when his head is supposedly still spinning around in space somewhere?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:57 pm

ShadowSonic wrote:Another thing that doesn't make sense: After Time Wars we find out the future has changed into something differant from the regualr future Rodimus and co came from, all the stories set after Target 2006 never happened apparently, so why is Unicron still inside the matrix when his head is supposedly still spinning around in space somewhere?

What doesn't make sense?

Roddy absorbs Unicron's essence in the Matrix, then goes back in time to retrieve Galvatron, taking the Matrix with him. This Matrix being the same Matrix that previously absorbed Unicron's essence. Returning to his own time, Roddy finds out it has been inextricably altered, however, the Matrix he still carries with him still contains Unicron's essence, which is later allowed opportunities to take over, due to some meddling by this new future's Galvatron.

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Marvel TF cartoon...

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