The Big 'un

Post by **Best First** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:20 pm

Marvel or DW.

why?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:24 pm

Marvel.

DW've only been pumping stuff out a couple of years, with the majority of it (IMNSHO) being tat.

Whereas Marvel have a much more extensive back catalogue, extending over many many years, which whilst being littered with some absolute tosh, contains some top notch quality storytelling.

It's a bit like comparing U2 to the Strokes.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:27 pm

do you think DW show any sign of matching Marvel toppermost moments?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:34 pm

Most of Marvel's cracking stories were the culmination of slow-burn stories and plot-threads that stretched back years.

Dreamwave seem set on throwing as many ideas as possible into effect right this moment, effectively drowning the story in the process.

Until they learn to show some patience (the ongoings are the only place this is going to happen, as limited miniseries by definition get wrapped up now), and start putting more emphasis on long-term plot instead of "wow, look at this great two-page splash!", then I'd have to say no.

Arguably the best story-arc DW have produced was the highly derivitive Worlds Collide, which Furman already told the bulk of during his Marvel run (AU Galvatron / Unicron's eating planets, sends a group of warriors as his heralds; gets wasted by the Matrix for his trouble).

jboyler · Post by **jboyler** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:51 pm

I voted for Dreamwave. (Grabs his Kevlar and hides in a corner)

I think that they are writing ADD stories with no patience for character or plot development. But the art is, at times, really, really cool. I did think that 'Worlds Collide' was a very good story arc and I was also pleased with the second 'G1' arc. It had some unexpected depth. I also like the fact that they tried to make the Mini-cons into real characters in the way that they resent the Transformers using them as tools.

Now, that all still doesn't compare to the depth of the Marvel series.

What puts Dreamwave over the top for me is their GI Joe / Transformers crossover. While the plot moves too fast and doesn't give the characters much depth, I applaud the idea of setting it in a dark and gritty WW2 setting. The art matches the setting beautifully and conveys an enormous amount of atmosphere. And while I know this is getting off-topic, it seems odd that the 'Transformers' company (Dreamwave) can beat out both Marvel and Devil's Due and write what I consider the best GI Joe story ever. (Compare the Snake-Eyes vs. Storm Shadow fight to any Devil's Due comic... wow)

I also think I'm more inclined to appreciate the Armada comics because the PS2 video game was what re-introduced me to Transformers in the first place

(And yes I know that I am a blasphemer, pagan, heretic, sell-out, muppet, Pat, and smurfing squiddlyfub)

-J

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:02 pm

Marvel, naturally.

Brendocon summed it up nicely in his first post. It's one big tale with (at least) 60% of its chapters being (at least) good versus set of handful, generally not so good, stories.

Other than that, my biggest complains being Dreamwave writers' (other than Furman) inability to tell a self-contained story within 22 pages, and the fact that Dreamwave's stories generally can't meet expectations after usually good starts.

Generally I see wasted potential, and that's why my answer to the second question should be: "I see signs, but they seem to lead into dead end", or something equally pseudo-poethical.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:41 pm

Marvel. I hate what Dreamwave has done.

That statement might be misleading. It's not that I hate everything about DW and what it's doing. I buy the merchandise (1 copy, no multiple copies due to different covers crap) when I'm interested as I love the Transformers. I'm a fanatic for the TFs, not for Marvel, not for DW, not for G1, G2, BW, BM, not any writer or artist of any sort. I'm not fans of these people and things. There's plenty from each and every one I'm sure that pisses me off. I'm a Transformers fan. And while Marvel is hardly airtight, I love it. What I hate is that I now keep running into folks that consider DW THE continuity. And what's the number 1 reason? They've started it all over again, and detailed everything, so it's solid and going to be perfect. Puh-leeze, ****ing nonsense! I'm going to stop now before I go into a two page rant.

Post by **Kaylee** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:13 pm

Marvel. Just for having some sense of humility.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:07 pm

Marvel.

jboyler wrote:the PS2 video game was what re-introduced me to Transformers in the first place

Then welcome back.

Don't stray again.

AndyTurnbull · Post by **AndyTurnbull** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:42 pm

I'd have to say Marvel purely for the fact that very little of the DW stuff seems to have been written well (or at all) and the complete absence of editorial in correcting flubs.

Andy

Kup_1 · Post by **Kup_1** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:26 am

Gotta go with Marvel myself.

Post by **snarl** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:12 am

Marvel by some way, although I've enjoyed most of the Furman written DW stuff.

Whilst DW have Don for art, they also have some real stinkers....

Marvel had a lot of talented artists.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:14 pm

Marvel, coz it's da best, innit?

DW are, despite the pretty art, a bunch of second-stringers. The MickDonagh creature isn't a comic writer, he's a guy who comes up with some ideas and lines derived from popular past TF moments (notably mostly from the cartoon and movie), scribbles them down and hands them to an artist to make work.

Brendocon's summation is one I would agree with, and I also agree with the 'lack of editorial presence' criticism. The DW TF work has positively screamed for a good editor since the beginning.

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:53 am

I dont care about the consequences! I say Dreamwave! But before you burn me at the stake hear me out. Who brought us Pretenders? Who brought us Spacehikers? Who, in Gods name, brought us The Mechanic and Robot Master!?!?

Marvel thats who!

At least when DW gave us the concept of Robot Master it was Hallo. I thought he came across as a badass. Oh yeah and DW gave us White Magnus.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:06 am

Optimus Prime Rib wrote:Who brought us Pretenders? Who brought us Spacehikers? Who, in Gods name, brought us The Mechanic and Robot Master!?!?

Marvel thats who!

They also brought us Primal Scream, On the Edge of Extinction, Prey, Target 2006, Time Wars, Legacy of Unicron, Space Pirates, Generation 2 and loads of other stories that piss all over Dreamwave's output.

Technically Hasbro brought us Pretenders. And Dreamwave will as well. White Magnus wasn't created by DW, and I for one really could have done without it.

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:14 am

But the Mechanic! For the love of all things cute and cuddly the mere thought of once reading that story makes me want to cry like a little girl.

Post by **Best First** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:01 am

the mechanic was appalling. But he does not offend me as much as issues with no plot or direction whatsoever.

Definitive fact: Optimus Prime never said "Hello Boys" in a Marvel comic.

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:02 pm

Best First wrote:the mechanic was appalling. But he does not offend me as much as issues with no plot or direction whatsoever.

Definitive fact: Optimus Prime never said "Hello Boys" in a Marvel comic.

This is true, but I cant remember ever seeing TF's (especially autobots) randomly slaying innocent people. Sure Shockers attacked a few and created circuit breaker (another strike against Marvel lol), but there was no blood, no sense of horror of being ripped apart by Prowl or crushed by Megatrons big 'ol foot. I think thats what hooked me on DW is they werent scared to get a little messy.

I will hand it to Marvel as far as some story arcs go. Time Wars, Primal Scream, etc. all Rock ***. However, the worst story arc Ive seen so far by DW is "Sunstorm" and that wasnt all crap. It was just a shameless toy plug.

Oh yeah, and I dont recall Prime ever saying "I want thier heads" in any Marvel Comic.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:04 pm

Optimus Prime Rib wrote: Oh yeah, and I dont recall Prime ever saying "I want thier heads" in any Marvel Comic.

As well he shouldn't have.

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings... ...now, I want their heads!"

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:38 pm

Optimus Prime Rib wrote:but there was no blood, no sense of horror of being ripped apart by Prowl or crushed by Megatrons big 'ol foot. I think thats what hooked me on DW is they werent scared to get a little messy.

You've obviously never read Icarus Theory/Dinobot Hunt then. Blood and corpses is nothing new in TFs and at least then it wasn't because they were trying to be cool.

Optimus Prime Rib wrote: However, the worst story arc Ive seen so far by DW is "Sunstorm" and that wasnt all crap.

If you say so. I'd say the first Armada arc and the first two volumes of G1 were much worse.

Optimus Prime Rib wrote: Oh yeah, and I dont recall Prime ever saying "I want thier heads" in any Marvel Comic.

Thats because in Marvel he wasn't a psycho.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:04 pm

Optimus Prime Rib wrote:But the Mechanic! For the love of all things cute and cuddly the mere thought of once reading that story makes me want to cry like a little girl.

I think my 'wanting to throw up my dinner until I dry-heave myself hoarse' at the thought of re-reading DW volume 1 beats your 'cry like a girl' at the thought of the Mechanic.

Post by **Best First** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:12 pm

Good to know that someone was swayed by DW's cheap use of violence in the place of actual plotting...

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:14 pm

Well someone's had to fund all this crap, yes?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:09 pm

Actually, I think we've all had a hand in that...

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:13 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:Actually, I think we've all had a hand in that...

But not like the true fans of DW that love everything they do, build shrines to them, and pay out the arse to obtain every frivolous cover and special piece of nothing they put out there. Were there a book store local to me that stocked them regularly I'd play "library" and never spend a nickel on them. Or penny.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:32 pm

disapointingly, a mate of mine has just read the first 2 volumes of DW TFG1.

He knows how much I love TF's and the first thing he said to me today was, ''oh my god, i just read some of the new transformer comics! THEY WERE AMAZING!!! I loved it when Megs stomped ona human and Prime dragon punches Devastator in the face, and it was so dark when that big jet plane one flew into the nuclear missle The art is amazing too.''

I nearly cried.

I have made it my mission to educate him, so tommorrow I'm taking him target 2006, as he loves TFTM, I hope that he can see the superiority and isn't swayed by visuals that are pretty on the exterior, but deeply flawed, or by a crap storyline with one or two interesting 'moments'.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:36 pm

Hound wrote:disapointingly, a mate of mine has just read the first 2 volumes of DW TFG1.

Tell me it's Bailey. Tell me he's joining us on the dark side.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:17 pm

sadly its not Bailey, he is only remotely interested when it suits him!

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:29 pm

Señior's Covenant wrote:
spiderfrommars wrote:Actually, I think we've all had a hand in that...
But not like the true fans of DW that love everything they do, build shrines to them, and pay out the arse to obtain every frivolous cover and special piece of nothing they put out there. Were there a book store local to me that stocked them regularly I'd play "library" and never spend a nickel on them. Or penny.

Whoa! I wouldnt go that far. Just because I enjoyed the story in Vol. 1 and the pacing of Vol 2. doesnt mean I hate Marvel and Love DW. I just didnt like some story arcs and so far I am happy with what Im getting in the new Gen 1.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:57 pm

Optimus Prime Rib wrote:
Señior's Covenant wrote:
spiderfrommars wrote:Actually, I think we've all had a hand in that...
But not like the true fans of DW that love everything they do, build shrines to them, and pay out the arse to obtain every frivolous cover and special piece of nothing they put out there. Were there a book store local to me that stocked them regularly I'd play "library" and never spend a nickel on them. Or penny.
Whoa! I wouldnt go that far. Just because I enjoyed the story in Vol. 1 and the pacing of Vol 2. doesnt mean I hate Marvel and Love DW. I just didnt like some story arcs and so far I am happy with what Im getting in the new Gen 1.

I'm not talking of you per say. More the ones out there who (and I **** you not) believe they're breaking news when they post in some forum NEWSFLASH! Primus is realy...*drum roll*...CYBERTRON! *sigh*. The same ones that have practically never touched a Marvel related TF item and think everything DW does is gold. Perhaps similar to the friend that almost made Hound cry?

TransFans.co.uk

The Big 'un

Who you like best, eh?