The Big 'un

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:01 pm

Ahh got ya, how about we get a bunch of TPB's and go beat the snot out of all of them Jay and Silent Bob style?

"are you dave?"
"Ya"
"did you say 'Ill bet you didnt know that Shockwave can transform into a giant gun'?"
"Ya"

"Hmm.." *knee to the junk*

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Aug 21, 2004 1:17 am

spiderfrommars wrote:Actually, I think we've all had a hand in that...

Not me, guv. I'm 100% innocent of that particular crime.

Nearest I ever got was picking up a grab bag while in a comic shop in Bath last November with Dylan and Hound, but it was sealed and I put it down very soon after.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:22 am

Way I see, lots of fans are easily turned over with the art... which is sad, since it's a matter of newer printing techniques.

Yet many believe that the artists of old were worse... And most praises I hear of DW are about the art.

Thankfully, if Pat Lee forces more of his protegees like Rob Ruffolo on other lines as well, we can soon say by-by to DW.

(I bet the only reason they said "hey look, Micromasters DID sold well" was because they read my review. Oh, and they mentioned the "great fan support of the title". Which is true, but they cleverly didn't mention the art nor the artist by name...

)

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 12:00 pm

Marvel - DW is just eye candy...

cant type much, bad hand...grr

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:40 pm

Señior's Covenant wrote:
Optimus Prime Rib wrote:
Señior's Covenant wrote: But not like the true fans of DW that love everything they do, build shrines to them, and pay out the arse to obtain every frivolous cover and special piece of nothing they put out there. Were there a book store local to me that stocked them regularly I'd play "library" and never spend a nickel on them. Or penny.
Whoa! I wouldnt go that far. Just because I enjoyed the story in Vol. 1 and the pacing of Vol 2. doesnt mean I hate Marvel and Love DW. I just didnt like some story arcs and so far I am happy with what Im getting in the new Gen 1.
I'm not talking of you per say. More the ones out there who (and I **** you not) believe they're breaking news when they post in some forum NEWSFLASH! Primus is realy...*drum roll*...CYBERTRON! *sigh*. The same ones that have practically never touched a Marvel related TF item and think everything DW does is gold. Perhaps similar to the friend that almost made Hound cry?

Where are these people? They sure ain't here. Or at my local comic shop. DW stacks to the moon there, never sells out.

Stormwolf · Post by **Stormwolf** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:26 pm

DW is starting to get too cartoony for me, I had some high hopes for this series when Shockwave appeared in vol. 2 but unfortunately those hopes were misplaced.

So I'll vote Marvel for now.

Dark Link · Post by **Dark Link** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:56 pm

Although Marvel will win hands down, I go with Dreamwave.

As a transformers fan who didn't come of age to effectively enjoy it until G2 I missed all of what would be considered G1. While I enjoyed the marvel comics I have found the art in Dreamwave's series to be better aswell as enjoying the stories more.

It may have a lot to do with seeing the cartoon first. So when ever I see transformers my mind immediately relates to the cartoons which I have been able to see all my life. Not the comics

I also enjoy Dreamwave more since I can experience the feeling of going out and buying transformer comics. Something I was never able to enjoy in the 80s.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:41 pm

As with most, I really only liked DW for the art, but that could have just been 'cos we hadn't had a TF comic in ages and it was so different to what we'd had before. The stories however were just such a mess that - factoring the memory-eroding month between titles and multiple titles that supposedly were interwoven in some way - I just couldn't follow the stories. Even the four-part Micromasters was confusing - how the hell do you confuse in just four issues (well, APART from putting like ten million similar-looking characters with hard-to-remember names in it - who the hell is WHO?)?
The MTMTE books were okay - for the art of course, but I didn't appreciate the rewiting of the Marvel continuity to fit their lackluster stories.
But MOST OF ALL, I utterly resented the major use of Dreamwave artwork and continuity (Primus/Cybertron transforms?!) in 'The Ultimate Guide'.

Oh yeah, and the DW GI Joe+Transformers crossover was a muddy dark mess that concentrated too much on human characters saving the day. Pity, 'cos the TF redesigns looked so good in the preview sketches. It was the worst comicbook by a supposedly professional company that I'd EVER seen. That other GIJ+TF one out at the same time (the company name escapes me as I write and I'm too lazy to check) did the crossover a much better service than DW ever did.

Marvel may have had a few stinkers (mostly dumb human character stuff - Mechanic: I HATE YOU!!!), but it kept us all happy for years and is remembered extremely fondly considering the 'Better than the G1 cartoon' rhetoric I constantly see on these boards.

Wow! Sorry, I seem to have written more than I intended to.

Post by **Denyer** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:22 pm

After three years all Dreamwave had to show for it were storylines dragged out to a point at which they became meaningless when cancelled, and the innovation of one freelancer in designing pre-Earth modes.

I appreciate good art when it's there, but I read for story.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:25 am

Denyer wrote:I appreciate good art when it's there, but I read for story.

The antithesis of everything that Dreamwave stood for...

Bloody narcissistic idiots...

Manchester Devil · Post by **Manchester Devil** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:19 pm

Marvel, simple - Great stories, great characters, great moments (almost) everytime.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:51 am

DW earn points for:

Don's stunning art.
the G1 redesigns that appeared in the ongoing, like Ratchet's fully transformable robot mode, Bumblebee's facemask or Jetfire's armour are just about my favourite TF art ever.

The War Within.
After a shaky first series, the second was fantastic and the third was shaping up to be just about the best TF comic story I'd ever read. It still makes me feel sad to see the cover art they have over at Seibertron for issues #4-#6. It would have been amazing.

However they lose points for:

Pat Lee.
From his execrable storytelling, to his breasts on Prime, to his three Porches and a helicopter, he just seems like a smug git who basically took the money and ran.

Micromasters.
Need I say more?

Marvel, on the other hand, win because of:

Marvel UK.
The freedom to write proper stories, and the longevity to see them through. When Time Wars began with Ravage resurfacing after being absent for 130-odd isssues, it made me want to cheer. Throw in all the Galvatron/Magnus/Wreckers/zombies/Throttlebots stuff and yes, we're looking at the Golden Age.

G2.
Perhaps a bit ropey in the middle due to Manny's poor art, but breathtaking nonetheless.

Given the choice, though, I would prefer that DW's ongoing had continued, and that AoW had concluded. And Don & Simon's BW? That would have been awesome.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:54 am

Marvel US = a vehicle for flogging toys
Marvel UK / G2 = a vehicle for telling stories
Dreamwave = a vehicle for showing off fancy art

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:59 am

If DW had published, say, 5 volumes of War Within, of the same quality as Dark Ages / Age of Wrath #1-#3, and if BW had been any good, then DW would have got my vote. As it happened, the Lees decided that fancy cars and strippers were far more important than making comics.

And then there's Micromasters.

Twunts.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:18 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:The War Within.
After a shaky first series, the second was fantastic and the third was shaping up to be just about the best TF comic story I'd ever read.

i think T2006 or the culminationm of the US run spaff all over any of the WW stuff.

Stormwolf · Post by **Stormwolf** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:42 pm

Brendocon wrote:Marvel US = a vehicle for flogging toys
Marvel UK / G2 = a vehicle for telling stories
Dreamwave = a vehicle for showing off fancy art

That explains it all, with the least amount of words

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:56 pm

Who revived this post, btw? I wasn't paying attention.

I never really put in me two cents. So here they are: DW has good art, but it all looks similar. Even Andy Wildman's stuff ended up looking like Don Figueroa's, but subpar (when we all know how good he really is). Marvel had Derek Yaniger, Andrew Wildman, William Johnson, Don Perlin and Geoff Senior, who were all incredibly dissimilar but amazing. The price, of course, was that we had to suffer through Manny Galan, among others. I was never too hot on Delbo's art, though you have to give him props for longevity and being readable.

DW has some cool ideas, in my opinion. The Ark 2 was interesting and the whole premise of War and Peace blew me away to the point that it took me two times reading through it to notice that the ending didn't make much sense. What's more, Brad Mick actually showed that he could do comedic relief and good character moments-- think "Slag! Get rid of that thing already! You're creeping me out!"

Problem is, DW's strength were all of Furman's strengths without the follow-through. Furman wrote character moments that were funny and poignant. just as much as the aforemention Slag scene or Brawn's beating up Bruticus after he had already fallen. Furman gave us moments like "Five triliters of Energon resin says Bludgeon's going down," as well as moments like Scorponok's death and the Ratchet-Megs monster putting Prime's gun to its own head. Furman also took his good ideas, like the TFs having a god, and followed it through to an incredible conclusion, which DW didn't do with either "War and Peace" or "Sunstorm."

The thing that broke me little heart the most about DW was that they really did have potential. In fact, I thought Mad Brick was a good writer in some ways, though he couldn't finish a story.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:05 pm

Best First wrote:
Metal Vendetta wrote:The War Within.
After a shaky first series, the second was fantastic and the third was shaping up to be just about the best TF comic story I'd ever read.
i think T2006 or the culminationm of the US run spaff all over any of the WW stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I love my T2006, but I really think WW and BW had the potential to be great series. BW could have been one of the best comics yet, and WW was really kicking off properly.

[edit]

Look at these...

http://www.seibertron.com/images/comic/31/004a.jpg
http://www.seibertron.com/images/comic/31/005a.jpg
http://www.seibertron.com/images/comic/31/006a.jpg

Looks like it would have been great.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:29 pm

I wouldn't say that Marvel's US only comics were just a vehicle for selling toys, they told some great stories equal to Furman's (The "New Order" arc, Return to Cybertron, Megatron's Last Stand, Headmasters), and also told some good moral tales that most comics touch upon (the much maligned "Shooting Star" had a good message and nice ending) yeah Bob included too many human characters but GUESS WHAT? TFs took place on Earth and liek it or not Humans will alwasy take part in TF stories as long as they are on Earth.

I like the Marvel G1/G2 series, for the record, but I'd be willing to give DW a chance if they had been allowed to continue the storyline.

ANd dudes, they're telling us all the Primus/Unicron information as if it's new...becuase to the new reading audience (not jsut us fanboys) IT IS NEW STUFF THEY SHOULD KNOW!!!

Post by **Best First** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:26 pm

ShadowSonic wrote: yeah Bob included too many human characters but GUESS WHAT? TFs took place on Earth and liek it or not Humans will alwasy take part in TF stories as long as they are on Earth.

Bob didn't include too many humans - he included to many unconvincing goobers, interesting and realistic humans would have been fine, but instead we got frigging Cicruit Breaker.

you can rip that straight out of context eh? ha ha.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:29 am

I liked WW, prolly an asthetic thing to be honest.

the majority of DW writting was very poor tho. the only decent bits they stole from marvel.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:00 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: the only decent bits they stole from marvel.

Thank god they didn't steal Circuit Breaker, The Mechanic, Roadjammers et al.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:08 pm

Circut Breaker wasn't so bad, she was developing more of a sense of who was good and bad in the TF war, but then when she was in the Neo-Knights, she was regressed back to her first' appearances' attitude.

Speaking of the Neo-Knights...what the?

Anyways, Bob did give us G.B. Blackrock, and that Joey Slick story wasn't so bad if you realized Bob was trying to tell a story of how the TF's sheer presence could upset the balance of power on Earth and how that one guy specifically was affected by it. Robot Master showed to be a semi-interesting char in his last appearance.

Anywho, I go for Marvel, more originality (of course, they had nothing to rip-off, so I guess that's an unfair statement) but I guess it was the characterizations Bob and Simon gave us that made me a fan.

TransFans.co.uk

The Big 'un

Who you like best, eh?