Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith [Spoilers]

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue May 24, 2005 4:28 pm

im telling yo, its all about Han Solo - go back and watch Star Wars, and skip all the Han Solo scenes.

Note how the film now seems to technical, stuffy and devoid of humour to any great degree, notice how Luke is boring Jedi, and that Obi-Wan and co talk rubbish.

Its all about Han...

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Tue May 24, 2005 4:45 pm

I don't agree with you

I think it's it about the whole group.
Remove Chewi - and you'll miss something.
Remove Luke - and you'll miss something.
And even; replace Luke with another actor, and I think the chemistry will dissappear = the movie'll suck.

The chemistry between them all, thats what I think its about

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue May 24, 2005 4:55 pm

Luke barely talks to Han, he talks to Obi-Wan or Yoda.
Han talks at Luke and is generally funny, he tells Luke things, and Luke listens, or Obi-Wan dissagrees. Han is the Funny one, hes light hearted and a father figure at the same time. seriously.
CHeewie doesnt actually do anything but make a sound, so on that basis hes just as good in EP3

the only other factor is Leia, she has some good moments with Hans rouge'ish nature.

the happy go lucky nature of the films is due to Han, Luke, is very much like Hayden and Ewan rolled into one, minus Ewans acting skill.
Its Han-Solos charisma, or should we say Harrison Fords that guides the film, hence why he became Hollywoods highest paid actor through the 90's and why films like Indiana Jones do so well, on what is essentially the same role.

Post by **Best First** » Tue May 24, 2005 10:41 pm

yeah, but all you are saying is it is about how Han interacts with people, remove the people and you remove that.

and the notion that chewie only makes a sound so he is as good is all movies is nonce-sense - its all about the context - notably the end of ESB.

The whole cast of the originals is way better IMO. Even bloody luke.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Wed May 25, 2005 12:45 am

Best First wrote:
The whole cast of the originals is way better IMO. Even bloody luke.

Agreed. but then there was little about the first couple that were less than perfect.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:30 am

Allow me to play devil's advocate and say that IMO, the only real central characters in I-III are Anakin, Obi Wan, and Padme. Whereas IV-VI has Luke, Leia, Han Solo, Chewbacca, and Droids(who were definetly featured and characterized far more in the original trilogy).

You may say the these facts do little to rebut your position.

You may say these facts are irrelevant.

I say "Hello." "Hello, Hello."

Post by **Best First** » Wed May 25, 2005 6:36 am

is it me you're looking for?

Post by **Kaylee** » Wed May 25, 2005 7:51 am

Moshi moshi?

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Wed May 25, 2005 6:21 pm

Best First wrote:is it me you're looking for?

I was looking for more "I don't know why you say goodbye, I say hello."

But Lionel Ritchie's cool too.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Fri May 27, 2005 12:24 pm

Who taught Anakin how to become a blue glowing smurf?

Post by **Best First** » Fri May 27, 2005 12:29 pm

Papa Smurf?

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Fri May 27, 2005 12:32 pm

Compared to the rest of the trilogy, that makes sense

Post by **Best First** » Fri May 27, 2005 12:50 pm

I still don't get Palpy's face thing by the way - how does that work?

why didn't he just electricute himself?

Samuel L's death is soooooooooo gash.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Fri May 27, 2005 1:38 pm

Maybe I just misunderstood the whole thing. I thought the story of the Sith that killed his master after learning so much about the Darkside and how to use it to learn longevity among other things was about him (Palpatine/Sidious), and that face he ended the movie with was his real aged face (I also read in one of those Ultimate Guides about Star Wars he looks like that due to aging so last time I stopped in at WalMart so...) and he just used that encounter with Windu to blame his real appearance (not his Palpatine facade) on a Jedi attack and no longer have to hide behind the face of Palpatine. I also, maybe it was just me, thought the faking of real pain as his own energy "scarred him" in Mace's attack was somewhat obvious.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Fri May 27, 2005 1:58 pm

Hmmm...I've seen this a few times now (thanks to the joys of dodgy DVD) and, well,

Yeah a few lines grated here and there and some bits just seemed pointless (Chewbacca? Why?) but on the whole, my feeling was that if you travelled back to 1978 with a video recorder and a tape of Ep III and said to people "You know how SW is episode 4? Do you want to see episode 3?" it would blow their tiny minds. Unlike 1&2 this actually seemed like a proper SW movie, everything seemed to fit properly.

Going to watch it again tonight, I''ll see if anything else springs to mind.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Fri May 27, 2005 1:59 pm

At first I thought people got disfigured if they turned to the dark side (you know 'evil will eat up your soul' and crap like that).
But Anakin's face isn't disfigured in Episode VI (compared to the emperors).

Anyways, if the disfigured face is the emperors real face, how does he hide it? With the force? With a mask?
Is it really possible to create a false face with the force? Why doesn't he just transform into Anakin or something and kill everyone himself?
If he can hide that he is the friggin sith leader, he sure as hell should be able to pose as an asshole.

I think he got disfigured by the lightning.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri May 27, 2005 2:22 pm

What I found bemusing was the whole thing where Padme dies "because she's lost the will to live."

Not because Anakin choked the life out of her. Not because childbirth knackered her. But because she didn't want to go on anymore. That's... well, weak is the word that springs to mind. And considering she'd just popped out two sprogs, a little selfish if you ask me. Would have been tidier if they-d c-sectioned her and she just never woke up, rather than dodgy dialogue that carries the inference that people can die simply by wanting to. Because she still cared enough to know exactly what she wanted her kids to be called as soon as they were put in front of her...

B'ah.

To be honest, a lot of my disappointment comes from the fact that I was expecting it to chart Anakin giving in to the dark side or whatever and becoming an evil remorseless bastard. Whereas what I got was shades of grey, ambiguity and a guy put in a situation he blatantly hates but doesn't feel he has much choice in the matter. Okay, so at the end he can't go back as he doesn't have anything to go back to... but it's hardly the shrouded-in-darkness I was expecting.

Faith's fall from grace was better, as she believed that everybody hated her. Whereas Anakin was only doing what Palpatine asked because he wanted to save Padme... okay, maybe killing the Jedi Juniors and the people on that lava planet gave him enough of a buzz to want to be evil full time, but they could have done a better job of showing that. Probably by actually showing that, rather than just telling us that he's done these things and leaving me scratching my head thinking "yeah, but why?"

Lucas really isn't great at character motivation, is he? It just seems to be a Mad Brick-esque "he's doing this because he's evil now, and he's evil now because Palpatine asked him to be" without much in the way of depth.

Polysyllabic blah.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Fri May 27, 2005 2:25 pm

Fret not. George will pool all comments and fix everything in the Special Editions he makes a decade or so from now...

...right before the release of the announcment he's starting on the last trilogy.

Post by **Best First** » Fri May 27, 2005 2:29 pm

i like the Faith point. a lot.

Imagine starwars with dialogue by Whedon

as opposed to wooden.

Oh wait it would be Firefly wouldn't it? Fox you ****s.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Fri May 27, 2005 4:03 pm

Señior's Covenant wrote:and that face he ended the movie with was his real aged face (I also read in one of those Ultimate Guides about Star Wars he looks like that due to aging so last time I stopped in at WalMart so...) and he just used that encounter with Windu to blame his real appearance (not his Palpatine facade) on a Jedi attack and no longer have to hide behind the face of Palpatine. I also, maybe it was just me, thought the faking of real pain as his own energy "scarred him" in Mace's attack was somewhat obvious.

My problem with it was that it just wasn't clear. At the end of it I don't know if Palpatine was wearing a mask or if Mace did it to him (no doubt the novelisation explains this?).

Star Wars books/fiction always gave me the impression that the dark side had eaten away at his body. I'd kind of expected him in Ep 3 to start seeing crap growing on parts of his body etc., as in the Sidious scenes in Eps 1 and 2 he is not 'aged'/afflicted.

How about a scene where he ripped off his 'mask' to reveal his real self? Might've been better.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Fri May 27, 2005 4:25 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:(no doubt the novelisation explains this?).

No doubt. Wish I'd read them. Hmph.

bobaprime85 · Post by **bobaprime85** » Fri May 27, 2005 5:57 pm

spiderfrommars wrote: My problem with it was that it just wasn't clear. At the end of it I don't know if Palpatine was wearing a mask or if Mace did it to him (no doubt the novelisation explains this?).

Well, I have read the novelization, (and DAMN, it has better dialogue and easier to understand motivations) and it doesn't really go into that, but according to the Making of Episode III Lucas himself states that the energy was just revealing Palp's "true face" that he had been hiding.

Oh, and Palps >>>> Windu.

A big

to the Whedon point. Still, it would seem to me that baby-killing ranks pretty high in the villain-o-meter, or at least high enough to make me believe that, yeah, this is the guy who becomes Vader.

Post by **Computron** » Fri May 27, 2005 6:10 pm

Best First wrote: Oh wait it would be Firefly wouldn't it? Fox you ****s.

*Sheds a tear*

I miss that show.

"She has a name"

"So does this! I named her Vera."

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Fri May 27, 2005 6:11 pm

bobaprime85 wrote:Still, it would seem to me that baby-killing ranks pretty high in the villain-o-meter, or at least high enough to make me believe that, yeah, this is the guy who becomes Vader.

True.

As far as motivations for Anakin go, think of it from a different standpoint. Think of a guy who has served the military since he was a child. Enter confusion in the ranks and uncalled for procedures never before done. Add dash of covert ops for both sides that he himself is stuck in the middle of. Sprinkle confusion of loyalties and trust. Salt to taste.

Now, that guy knows his wife will likely die soon. An offer to save her is given. Now imagine one of those movies where the guy's family is kidnapped and he has to do some rank **** just to keep them alive. Initially Anakin probably didn't really want to do what he was doing, but given the anti-Jedi propaganda one of his mentors (the one not working for a Council he was having doubts about) and the need to save his wife's life he concedes to do Palpatine's bidding. But the Darkside quickly starts taking hold of him as he performs his deeds. Had to have done that. I don't see a man just trying to save his wife's life killing a ****load of children. If anything he'd have snuck them out to freedom using some bs story.

Then again, no one should hold claim to knowing what they would do to save the one's they loved. I know I'd do everything I could to save my wife if her life was endangered. It's just a matter of how far encompassing "everything" would go given being in the situation.

I'm not defending Lucas, he's never had a knack for human motivations, but I don't mind reading into things. I don't want to be given something that explains every little detail and be given info-dumps like I can't figure this out otherwise, I want to interpret on my own views and feelings.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Fri May 27, 2005 6:23 pm

Brendocon wrote:
Faith's fall from grace was better, as she believed that everybody hated her. Whereas Anakin was only doing what Palpatine asked because he wanted to save Padme... okay, maybe killing the Jedi Juniors and the people on that lava planet gave him enough of a buzz to want to be evil full time, but they could have done a better job of showing that. Probably by actually showing that, rather than just telling us that he's done these things and leaving me scratching my head thinking "yeah, but why?"

Polysyllabic blah.

Prehaps but in the context of VAders character it works. We've know since the Empire Strikes back tthat a 20 years on Vader is, deep down, still motivated by good intentions but under the belief that only the through the darkside can he achieve these noble intentions.

spiderfrommars wrote:
My problem with it was that it just wasn't clear. At the end of it I don't know if Palpatine was wearing a mask or if Mace did it to him (no doubt the novelisation explains this?).

It does. It make it clearer that Palps was using Mace to set up Anakin and afterwards he looks in a mirroe and says" I'll miss Pappatines face" implying the feedback didn't disfigure him only forced his real face to show.

And from the Episode 3 visual dictionary:

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Fri May 27, 2005 6:50 pm

Thanks. I think its a real shame that wasn't made clearer. I mean, I'd like to think I wasn't being dumb.

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Fri May 27, 2005 6:51 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:Thanks. I think its a real shame that wasn't made clearer. I mean, I'd like to think I wasn't being dumb.

I'd like to think that to.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Fri May 27, 2005 6:57 pm

Oh, and Sidious having Palpatine's face in the first two Eps adds to my confusion.

Señior's Covenant · Post by **Señior's Covenant** » Fri May 27, 2005 7:01 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:Oh, and Sidious having Palpatine's face in the first two Eps adds to my confusion.

And, unless I try to tell myself perhaps he was busy with senate affairs and required a moment here and there where he merely had time to put on his hood -OR- that he's been hiding strictly behind the face of Palpatine for all this time, it bugs the **** out of me.

Something more though. That scene where Obi is on the giant lizard. Lizard doesn't take a single hit?

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri May 27, 2005 7:53 pm

he uses the force to guide the Lizards movements ? - haha the force, u can close any plot hole with it!!!