Character discussion : This Week 'Fortress Maximus'

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:50 am

Bouncelot wrote:
I think he supposedly only doubled (or was it quadrupled?) in size. Given that cartoon Max was on a par with Metroplex size-wise, it clearly wasn't intended to take him up to that size level, merely to make him big enough that they could plausibly introduce the Cerebros bit of the toy.

Just in case there's been a misunderstanding, I'm talking Dreamwave not Marvel.

Death's Head · Post by **Death's Head** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:07 pm

And he wasn't the first to bring up the subject of TF religion, either. Think back to US #1, when the Autobot patrol first sees the Drive-in movie. One of them speculates that it's some kind of religious ritual. At this point, the TFs were portrayed as having had no contact with non-Transformer life, so obviously the TFs were intended to have religious beliefs right from the very start.

Very good point (and also worth noting that the comic's first issue predates the cartoon, if we really need to make an issue of it). There's a lot of understandable hate for the first issue, but the TFs never really felt this genuinely 'alien' again until 'Man of Iron'.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:18 pm

Budiansky did a semi-good job of showing us the TFs as aliens.

And remember, the Creation Matrix program was seen as a Holy Object, so Budiansky also did a bit of religion too.

I really wish Furman hadn't turned the Matrix into the movie version, or given it an original. Having it be a mysterious, powerful holy object was SO much cooler.

And Beast Wars was a combination of the comics and cartoon, the Nemisis being on Earth, Teletran-1, Starscream being a ghost all cartoon concepts. BM cemented it as a fusion of both worlds.

Death's Head · Post by **Death's Head** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:22 pm

I really wish Furman hadn't turned the Matrix into the movie version, or given it an original. Having it be a mysterious, powerful holy object was SO much cooler.

It was more of an intangible computer program when Bob wrote it (which is a fascinating sci-fi concept - a computer program with algorithms so complex it can create life itself). I thought Furman's retcon worked, mind, even if it did demystify things a little (ironically, by adding 'mysticism') and of course, without it, we may not have had those great post-movie UK stories.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:08 pm

I think Furman couldn't really ignore the movie version of the matrix when writing stories that followed it.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:12 pm

Yeah, I bet Marvel influenced it quite a bit.

Shame as I liked the Computer Proggy idea aswell

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:49 pm

Well, between G1 and G2, the Matrix became a computer program again. Remember that instead of just ripping the shell container out of Prime, Megs needed an energy siphon to suck all the power right out of his body. So it became intangible again.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:54 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:
Bouncelot wrote:
I think he supposedly only doubled (or was it quadrupled?) in size. Given that cartoon Max was on a par with Metroplex size-wise, it clearly wasn't intended to take him up to that size level, merely to make him big enough that they could plausibly introduce the Cerebros bit of the toy.
Just in case there's been a misunderstanding, I'm talking Dreamwave not Marvel.

My mistake.

Dead Head · Post by **Dead Head** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:15 pm

Bouncelot wrote:he wasn't the first to bring up the subject of TF religion, either. Think back to US #1, when the Autobot patrol first sees the Drive-in movie. One of them speculates that it's some kind of religious ritual. At this point, the TFs were portrayed as having had no contact with non-Transformer life, so obviously the TFs were intended to have religious beliefs right from the very start.

Does that follow? I can't recall TFs at that point being portrayed as having had no contact with non-Transformer life.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:23 pm

What was certain was that they'd never come across organic life.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:27 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:What was certain was that they'd never come across organic life.

Well, they don't reproduce like our species, so it's a fair guess that none of them had ever come across anything.

[/obligatory Transfans wank joke]

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:02 pm

You're banned.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:16 pm

Dead Head wrote:
Bouncelot wrote:he wasn't the first to bring up the subject of TF religion, either. Think back to US #1, when the Autobot patrol first sees the Drive-in movie. One of them speculates that it's some kind of religious ritual. At this point, the TFs were portrayed as having had no contact with non-Transformer life, so obviously the TFs were intended to have religious beliefs right from the very start.
Does that follow? I can't recall TFs at that point being portrayed as having had no contact with non-Transformer life.

They're certainly portrayed as having had no contact with organic life, and no contact with anything from outside the Alpha Centurai system.

As the introduction to the story suggests that Cybertron was pretty unique in having mechanical life, it at least gives some impression that they have no experience of life beyond Cybertron.

Stormwolf · Post by **Stormwolf** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:20 pm

Bouncelot wrote:
Dead Head wrote:
Bouncelot wrote:he wasn't the first to bring up the subject of TF religion, either. Think back to US #1, when the Autobot patrol first sees the Drive-in movie. One of them speculates that it's some kind of religious ritual. At this point, the TFs were portrayed as having had no contact with non-Transformer life, so obviously the TFs were intended to have religious beliefs right from the very start.
Does that follow? I can't recall TFs at that point being portrayed as having had no contact with non-Transformer life.
They're certainly portrayed as having had no contact with organic life, and no contact with anything from outside the Alpha Centurai system.

As the introduction to the story suggests that Cybertron was pretty unique in having mechanical life, it at least gives some impression that they have no experience of life beyond Cybertron.

I think that there might have been some contact with the rest of the universe after the Ark left.

This can also be traced back to "Deadly Games", all the aliens seemed to know about Cybertron and the war that went on

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:26 pm

Stormwolf wrote:I think that there might have been some contact with the rest of the universe after the Ark left.

Nearly 4 million years' worth of it, I'd imagine.

Perhaps the Transformers were just an early developer of interstellar travel, but in terms of the tech, were in an isolated region of the galaxy/universe at the time, so didn't have the opportunity to encounter other lifeforms.

Why they would during an escalation of their global civil war is anyone's guess, especially given the G2 exodus. Or maybe because of it...

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:28 pm

Remember, Cybertron is a 'rogue planet' that has no true orbit and careens throughout the universe on it's own, so they'd never stay in one sector long enough to encounter other life.

Most likely that Cybertron got some kind of fixed position after the G1 series ended but before G2.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:33 pm

It wasn't always a rogue planet.

And who's to say whether interstellar travel was developed before or after the outbreak of war?