Evangelion 3.0 Spoilers and complaints (about anime fans)

[Professor Smooth]

I got into Eva back in high school. The school's one asian kid seemed to make it his mission to get as many people exposed to the series as possible. Those friends, by and large, took up the cause and exposed their friends to it. And so on, and so forth. This was back in the dark days before you could stream nearly anything you wanted online. And WELL before fan subbers could finish an episode within 24 hours of its airing. The anime section at the local video store consisted of about 20 titles and usually shared a rack with either music videos or porn. VHS tapes cost 29.99 and had only two (or, if you were lucky) three episodes. And most of them were dubbed by the same half-dozen voice actors. Subtitled? Maybe the store could special order them for you. If you wanted to wait a few weeks and pay $5 more...

But, man, Eva hit me like a ton of bricks. It was, and still is my all time favorite anime series. To be fair, I haven't seen that many full series. But I dug everything about that show. The art, animation, character designs, settings, characters...everything. Since I was living in Chicago, there wasn't much in the way of merch to be had, so it didn't break my pitiful high school bank account. But I still remember a friend of mine trying to wrap his mind around my buying an Asuka figurine from Electronics Boutique.

Woo! This is finally out!
??? Seriously?
Hell, yeah! Asuka, pilot of Unit 02!
Dude. That's a doll. It's a little girl doll.
No way! She's a bad ass anime warrior.
...who comes with her own little stuff baby doll.
I... uh, well, that's from the episode where...
Just buy your ****ing doll and keep it hidden until we get out of the mall.
Woo! Asuka!

Months after I moved to Japan, the new Evangelion movies started coming out. They were advertised as a retelling of the stories according to the creator's vision...with an all new ending. Which is great, because the endings we got to the series were at least sliiiiiightly depressing.

So, the first movie came out. It was pretty much a straight, streamlined retelling of the first dozen episodes of the series. Only with animation befitting the juggernaught that Eva had become. The movie absolutely blew my mind when I saw it. It remains the only anime movie I've ever bought on Blu Ray.

The second movie made a few changes and added or dropped characteres here and there. The movie built to an almost familiar climax before changing it up big time and ending on the biggest cliffhanger since Boba Fett took off with Han. That movie blew my mind out of the back of my head on onto the poor saps in the row behind me. During one of the most brutal fight scenes I've seen in anything (and I've seen Kill Bill a million times) the song we usually play at elementary school graduations plays. The contrast between blood, gore, destruction, and a kid's song, in a packed theater, was like being ripped in half...which is exactly what the director wanted. During the final "action" scene of the movie, a similar song is used (Tsubasa wo Kudasai/Wings to Fly) for a completely different effect. There wasn't a dry on in the theater. It was such an amazing scene, I bought a ticket to see it again a few weeks later. This time with a girl. It was the first date with the woman I'd marry a few years later.

A few years. Yeah. It took three and a half years to get part 3 out. It was supposed to take 12 months. But, wow. The wait was worth it. Especially because it gave me time to forget what I'd seen AFTER the movie came out.

See, in today's world, if the movie had been released direct to video, it would have been subtitled and passed around the globe before the first copy had been sold in Japan. But this was a theatrical release. And the home version wouldn't come out for nearly a year. But I, being the Chatty Cathy that I am, couldn't wait to talk about it with other Eva fans. So, I went online. And, a few days after the movie came out, people were discussing it.

And they HATED it. They thought the director had "finally gone off the deep end" and couldn't believe how anybody would think it makes sense to use a cheerful kids' song over a giant mechanical thing destroying a town with another giant mechanical thing. "What utter cash-grabbing bull****!" they said. But, here's the rub. None of them had SEEN it. They were basing their opinions on a few translated snippets from other chat boards. Such hate and snark from people who have more degrees of seperation from having seen the movie than I do from Kevin Bacon. I mean, here was this epic masterpiece of animation...and English speaking fans are ****ing all over it based on what somebody said that somebody else heard from somebody who'd seen the movie.

But, I never learn. So, after seeing 3.0, I went to some of the old anime forums that I still remember my account logins for. And, once again, it's one guy who heard about the contents of the movie from somebody who'd seen it in Japan...and the director has finally lost his mind completely. It's really "gone off the rails." Much rolling of eyes and gnashing of teeth. For a movie they haven't seen yet. And probably won't for at least a year. And, let's be honest, when they do finally see it, it'll likely be the fan sub that is released an hour after the Japanese version goes on sale. So, they'll pay nothing for it. And, since entertainment doesn't cost anything, they'll complain and nitpick.

And this brings us full circle. In those dark days where being able to watch anime meant that you, or somebody you know, had to pay $30 for two episodes, everybody had some skin in the game. You like the stuff you liked enough to pay for it. Then copy/loan it out to your friends who did likewise. You watched what you liked, tried other stuff, and went from there. Nobody in their right mind would keep buying tapes of something they didn't like. So the people who liked anime...LIKED anime. They didn't have easy and free acess to EVERYTHING. If, after two tapes, you didn't like Tenchi Muyo, you didn't keep buying the tapes. I gave Gundam Wing 4 DVDs before I decided it just wasn't doing it for me. And you know what? I still do that. If I start watching something and don't like it. I stop. I don't keep watching until I develop a burning hatred of the material. And I don't waste my energy cultivating outrage over entertaiment that doesn't appeal to me. And, most importantly, I'm not so jaded that I will form a negative opinion on a movie based on a cheap/free translation of something that somebody in some other country has said about that movie.

Spoilers for EVA 3.0:

Whole new story. Some familiar themes. A lot of the movie answers questions that fans have been asking for 15 years in some of the most epic and unique ways possible. Amazing theater-going experience. Oh, and Ghibli has an all new live-action short film that plays before the movie starts. And it's incredible.

[Professor Smooth]

Just a quick follow-up. If you are passionate about your hobby, Japan is the place for you! At first, I thought it was just the language barrier, but now I'm pretty confident when I say this. Most passionate fans don't enjoy not enjoying lots of stuff they enjoy.

Let me back up.

There's a dude on a Transformers chat board that I used to visit. He has, or had, by far, the highest post count on the board. He could be counted on to start or respond to every single post on that board. And he was always very informed in his posting.

But, by all accounts, he hated EVERYTHING about the hobby. I don't recall ever hearing him say anything positive about the movies, comics, cartoons, or toys. Even things that he liked were rendered crap by "stupid oversights from Hasbro, Takara, etc."

I mentioned above that I was baffled by people who hated movies they hadn't seen. And that, with everything in the history of entertainment a few clicks away, that watching something you dislike doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But this dude, apparently watched every goddamn thing in which something transformed into something else.

That blows my mind in all the wrong ways. How can you devote so much time and energy (and, in the case of collectors, money) on something that you venemously hate so many aspects of?

And you don't get that here. If you meet somebody with a bedroom full of Haruhi figurines, you can rest assured that that guy FREAKIN' LOVES HARUHI. Same with the teacher who has a ton of Ghibli stuff on his/her desk. If you get that person talking about it, they will share with you the parts they like. And, if there's something they didn't care for, they generally won't even bring it up. Because, why would you?!?

I didn't even notice the shift at first. It took one experience, a few years back, to bring it into focus. I was at my favorite hobby shop. THey have everything a geek could want. Video games, dvds, comics, toys, figurines, you name it. Stuff going back to the 50's. I freakin' loved that place. You never knew what you were going to find there. And even if you couldn't afford it, or didn't really want it, it was amazing just seeing so much geek goodness under one roof. Hey! It would say. You love this stuff? So does everybody else here! Come in! Have a look around!

Then, I bumped into another foreigner in the Transformers section. And by "bumped into" I mean, "was spoken to by."

TF fan?
Yep.
Yeah, me too. But, man, Animated ****ing sucks.
Uh, okay. I kinda dig i...
...but it's better than that Armada/Energon/Cybertron crap!
Cybertron had some great figures, though. Galaxy Con...
...and don't even get me started on the Michael Bay, bull****.
Buster Optimus Prime was a great figure. And some of those action sce...
...and all the crap that IDW is putting out? Give me a break!
I dunno. I like how they balance fan service and quality storytelling.
Better than Dreamwave, though. I'll give you that!
Don Figueroa, Guido Guidi? Quality work.
Meh.

It was then that the difference between some Western and Japanese fans became clear to me. A Western otaku will go on for hours about how horrible Dragonball Evolution was. A Japanese otaku will say that it looked terrible so he didn't see it.

[Mr_Tigg]

Used to love this series.

I have the first two rebuilds on DVD. All I need to know is 3.0 of a similar standard?

[Professor Smooth]

Used to love this series.

I have the first two rebuilds on DVD. All I need to know is 3.0 of a similar standard?

Oh my, yes.

[saysadie]

I think it's partially because it's trendy (in a way) to hate on the stuff. Because people feel the need to stand out from the crowd, now that geeky hobbies are "going mainstream". If you love something wholeheartedly, then you MUST not know much about it, because this and this is crap, and everyone knows how this could have been better...

Geek elitism. I try to avoid it, but to be honest the other end of the spectrum annoys me, too. People who say they like [something I like and know a bit about] but know nothing about them. I worked with one of those- she was all keen to show me her multiple "cool, geeky" phone wallpapers. I assumed she knew a thing or two and started talking to her about it, and was given a blank stare and a bit of stammering. :/

In the case of Transformers, I think it's also because that there are genuinely bits of Transfomers that are crap- it's hard to avoid in a franchise that's been going on for well over 20 years. And for the most part, the series has been aimed at children.

*shrug*

[Professor Smooth]

See, that's one of the things that gets me about Transformers. It's a kid's property. Or, at the very least, it was EXCLUSIVELY a kids property up until around 2004.

Yeah, the Marvel comics were written for a broader audience, but they could do whatever they wanted as long as they continued to plug the new toys.

So, whenever I hear overly passionate complaints about a Transformers toy or cartoon from an adult, I can't help but think, "Yeah, but you're not the target demographic."

And that last bit is what has driven me to near lunacy in regards to another franchise. Super Sentai. The series that gets turned into Power Rangers a year later. Some of the most negative comments I've ever read about anything, ever, are about Super Sentai. More specifically, from people in their goddamn late 20's-early 30's complaining that the series should have done this, or that.

Super Sentai is aimed a VERY young Japanese boys. I teach 5th and 6th grade. THOSE KIDS are older than the target demo. That's the audience for the show. That's the audience for the toys. That's the audience for the manga. While there are, of course, adult collectors, they are not catered to in the way, even, that adult fans of Transformers are catered to.

The show is made for young, Japanese boys. You'll get a bit of fan service here and there, but those generally aren't for adult fans. They are for the parents who watched as kids who are now watching with their own children.

So, when I read a passionate complaint about Super Sentai from a 32 year old American guy, I just want to scream that they as far away (geographically and demographically) from the target audience as possible. The only overlap the two groups share is "being able to use the same public toilets."

Edit: Actual quote about the series that became the first series of Power Rangers. "It got a little too kid oriented at times."

[Hubcap]

This is actually a subject that I've been thinking about and that really gets on my nerves.

Not Eva, people that just gotta hate... everything.

I know it's because the internet has given everyone a place to spew whatever crap they want without consequence but I'm just so tired of it.

Transformers is the fandom I guess I'm most entrenched into, at least as far as interaction on the internet goes, and I just plain don't talk about Transformers with anyone on the internet anymore and I haven't for a lot of years now.

It's like it's cool to hate the comics, or the movies, or the cartoons, or whatever. And it's fine if you do but I really don't want to hear it. I'd rather talk about what I do like about TFs.

Now the same goes for anything I'm interested in. I love Gundam and am branching out into other anime as well, but if all you want to talk about is how bad Destiny was then talk to someone else.

No one seems to like talking about stuff they do like. Good stuff is always glossed over while someone is telling you about how bad it all is.

I'm probably generalizing, I know, but I'm so tired of people who have to bash something, just have to hate on something.

[Professor Smooth]

This should be obvious, but I guess it needs to be said. I get not liking things. I've seen a bunch of movies, for example, that I thought were terrible...and then pretty much moved on with my life.

You ever see that movie, Me, Myself, and Irene?
Yeah. Kinda sucked.
Right?

But what I don't get is having an all-consuming hate for something you consider yourself a fan of. With the exception, I guess, of sports teams. The Hiroshima Carp have sucked for nearly 4 decades. But, hey, you wish your local sports team well.

I've been a fan of Transformers since the 80's. I think it's a cool property. And I really like how a lot of people took the storytelling aspect explaining why cars turn into robots and ran with it. This van turns into a headless robot. Why? Because of a six-million year old intergalactic conflict between two groups of shape-changing robots! That's why!

OH. KAY. You hooked me! Let's see where this goes. Been a few decades now and I still care enough to read the comics (usually in trade) or pick up the odd figure once in awhile. And, yeah, if a movie is released every three years or so, I'll spend 20 bucks and two hours to watch it.

But there are people who make my interest in the hobby seem like nothing. Dudes with hundreds (or thousands) of figures. Every cover of every issue of every comic book series. Watched every episode of every animated series...

And they just can't stop complaining about them. New figures? Kiddy crap* Comics? Cheap fanservice. Movies? Big budget sludge aimed at the stupidest people possible. Original figures? Overpriced, non-posable junk. Cartoon? Only stupid children and Hitler would enjoy it.

So, I ask: What's the appeal? If you hate literally everything about the property, why are you spending your time on it? That's some kind of mental sickness.

This doesn't apply to people who actually have a legitimate reason for hating on stuff. The Nostalgia Critic, Angry Video Game Nerd, and Wrestlecrap for example. They poked fun at parts of popular entertainment that they didn't like...in order to produce entertainment that people DO like.

And, dudes, if you want to sit through 22 minutes of show you hate then spend another 10 minutes writing up a long, detailed review of how much you hated it...that's fine. Kind of strange way to spend your spare time, but whatever floats your boat. But when somebody is talking about how much s/he liked a movie, tv show, figure, real doll, etc...what purpose does posting a response about how much that whatever it was sucked? You liked that? It's ****!

And it's goddamn everywhere! Know what I collect without fail? Kabaya Transformers. They put out like 3 of them per year. They're like $4 each. They take maybe 10 minutes to assemble and then you've got a little 3 or 4 inch representation of a Transformers character. Great to stick on a work desk. The artwork on the packaging is always really nice as well. The recently released Fortress Maximus used artwork based on FM and Grand Maximus. There's literally nothing to complain about with these little things.

No paint apps? They come unassembled. Paint to your heart's content.
They look cheap? They're 4 dollars each. They ARE cheap.

Response to these harmless little models should range from "Hey, cool!" to "No opinion." They do not merit enough dislike to broadcast your disdain worldwide. And yet, here we are.

This is just about the only site where I talk about comics. Hell, the title of the thread is "I like comics, how about you?" I wandered into the Bleeding Cool (awesome site) forums (oh, no!) and wanted to take a shower afterwards.

[Hubcap]

This should be obvious, but I guess it needs to be said. I get not liking things. I've seen a bunch of movies, for example, that I thought were terrible...and then pretty much moved on with my life.

Okay.

So it's okay to hate something as long as you don't only talk about hating it? Or as long as you don't hate all aspects of something?

Is there someone who actually hates every aspect of a fandom they are a part of?

I mean there are some parts of TFs that I don't care much at all for. That I really disdain and I'll tell you all about them if prompted, but I don't see the logic in a person wanting to immerse themselves in something they have nothing but hate for. If they're watching all the cartoons and reading all the comics and seeing the movies and buying the toys they don't hate TFs.

[Professor Smooth]

Is there someone who actually hates every aspect of a fandom they are a part of?
.

Yes. Unbelievably, yes.