I know some of you Brits may not care...

[Hot Shot]

http://americancensorship.org/

...but I'd appreciate it if we could all support this petition. The ripples of this bill would likely affect you as well if it gets passed.

Secure your opportunity to torrent ****** comics you don't want to buy, but need to read to stay current!

And, uh, let me know if the "I'm not in the US" link still isn't working by morning...

[Kaylee]

Secure your opportunity to torrent ****** comics you don't want to buy, but need to read to stay current!

This suddenly feels relevant...

[Metal Vendetta]

And, uh, let me know if the "I'm not in the US" link still isn't working by morning...

Not sure how it's supposed to work - when I clicked it, it changed the text in the "Zip Code" box to "20000"...

[Hot Shot]

And, uh, let me know if the "I'm not in the US" link still isn't working by morning...

Not sure how it's supposed to work - when I clicked it, it changed the text in the "Zip Code" box to "20000"...

And that's Washington D.C....


Well, that's worthless. I guess all I can ask is for you all to pass this around to any Yanks you know. The fact this has bipartisan support in this day and age is terrifying. Surely this must be the Devil's work...?

[Professor Smooth]

Come on, bro. Torrenting comics is taking money out of the pockets of creators. For every Brian Michael Bendis, there are dozens of creators who barely make minimum wage. How can you be against making it more difficult to (admit it) outright steal their work?

[Brendocon]

How can you be against making it more difficult to (admit it) outright steal their work?

For some reason, I'm put in mind of the following Charlie Brooker column, entitled, quite marvellously "If the internet gave free back rubs, people would complain when it stopped because its thumbs were sore."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ple-to-pay

[Professor Smooth]

Secure your opportunity to torrent ****** comics you don't want to buy, but need to read to stay current!

The whole point of "books you need to read to stay current" is that they have to be purchased. That is what keeps money coming into Marvel and DC. That money allows them to continue to produce new material. If you NEED to read a book, then (ideally) you NEED to PAY FOR IT!

You need food to survive, but you can't just walk into a grocery store, and not pay for half of what's in your cart.

If you can't (or just don't want to) pay for it, then wait for the trade and check it out of the library. Or, hey, since reviews/spoilers for every single comic book in the history of the medium go up before/on/shortly after release day, you could easily "stay current" on books you don't buy...without the whole "stealing" thing.

[Kaylee]

This is a pretty huge issue, one that I can easily understand both sides of.

Firstly, as an old-fashioned, liberal-minded socialist I tend to think 'Free speech: yay!' The Internet should be a place where people can say what they like without teh big badz government$ swooping in.

My predication for that is simply that I don't trust government to manage it correctly, I believe they would bend it to their own ends and that the worst elements of Internet freedom are preferable to the worst elements of governmental restriction.

It's also worth comment, although I think overblown, that some organisations which would profit from censorship of pirated material probably need exactly the sort of punch in the crotch that the Internet provides. Basically the line 'if it were any good, I'd pay for it' and 'the reason people pirate is the quality is so poor', whilst I think overused does ostensibly hold a small amount of water: because the payment gateway is before sampling the product, it makes sense to use a low-risk, high-reward medium like Internet piracy in order to test the product out.

Of course it falls down on the assumption that 'I'll pay for it if I like it!' I don't buy that being true for 'most' piraters and have yet to see a single study that shows it to be accurate beyond noble intentions.

So yar, on the one hand, I can see why Internet censorship is bad and how we should oppose it.

Then comes the other side of the coin: no other human medium is devoid of restrictions or controls on content, why should the Internet be? Isn't total freedom of speech (and, apparently, by association data such as protected music and videos) just a 'nice in theory, won't work in practice' utopia?

Especially when it fosters the notion that any product which can be stored digitally is inherently worthless since it can be transferred easily and for free. That is something I am definitely opposed to.

Activity on the Internet will need monitoring, policing and filtering purely because human beings are human beings: for every five nice guys/gals there's one who is an utter, utter POS who needs some sort of restriction on exactly what they can get up to.

Be that trolling the pages of recently dead teenagers for 'teh lulz', hacking into eCommerce websites and making off with credit card details because 'the site was so insecure I was sending a message' or just plain old spam.

Add in organised and serious crime on top and you have a medium which, realistically, needs some rules and regulations in place on the content that can appear on it and some responsibility for that content to fall somewhere, rather than the endless buck-passing we do at the moment: is it the fault of the user, the site, the content provider, the delivery channel, the sun, the moon or the lie of the land?

So yes, both sides I can see quite clearly. Both seem to have some valid points and some bluster. Which route we should choose is beyond my reasoning, or even what sort of middle-ground compromise is best!

[/Anyone fancy a discussion?]

[Professor Smooth]

Guess I should back up a bit.

I'm not big on censorship. I just take issue with Hot Shot (and, man, do I feel stupid typing that) came at it from the perspective of: Don't let them do this! If they do, I won't be able to steal **** as easily!

When your entire argument is based on "I'm doing something illegal and I want to continue doing it" it's hard to sympathize.

To use a more timely example, look at the current cluster**** with those tax loopholes. The companies that are taking advantage of said loopholes aren't (vocally) against them because, "we make a nice chunk of change because of those loopholes and obviously we'd like to keep doing so." They're (vocally) against it because, "closing those loopholes would do further damage to an already reeling economy and perhaps effect job stability and/or growth."

[Hot Shot]

Secure your opportunity to torrent ****** comics you don't want to buy, but need to read to stay current!

I should probably clairify this.

I was mainly talking about the comics like Costa's run which we don't purchase out of principle. I know there are people who did that but torrented anyway to know what happened when the book picked back up in quality. I never did that, but I can't fault those who did.

What I have done, is torrent the Marvel UK TF run(which I buy trades of when I can), Iron Man's books up until early this year(which I started to buy when I caught up, then dropped), and Death's Head(Which I sought out trades of later). The fact is, I can barely afford the toys I buy occasionally. I can afford one or two comics monthly, but trades are out of my budget. The trades I do have are from discount stores, or I had to scrimp.

You know the argument that pirates won't or can't neccesarily buy what they download? I back that up. I'd buy everything I've pirated if I could.

[Professor Smooth]

I should probably clairify this.

You're not going to do yourself any favors, are you?

I was mainly talking about the comics like Costa's run which we don't purchase out of principle. I know there are people who did that but torrented anyway to know what happened when the book picked back up in quality. I never did that, but I can't fault those who did.

That's not "on principal." If you dislike a comic, don't read it. Need to "keep current," for the future? Read spoilers. Or reviews. But don't act all indignant because people want to make it harder for you to steal stuff (and then complain about how much you hate it, on principal.)

What I have done, is torrent the Marvel UK TF run(which I buy trades of when I can), Iron Man's books up until early this year(which I started to buy when I caught up, then dropped), and Death's Head(Which I sought out trades of later). The fact is, I can barely afford the toys I buy occasionally. I can afford one or two comics monthly, but trades are out of my budget. The trades I do have are from discount stores, or I had to scrimp.

I'm sorry about your financial problems, but that still doesn't give you a right to just outright steal content. I doubt I could afford to eat at a fancy Kobe beef steakhouse every night of the week, but that doesn't give me the right to dine-and-dash.

You know the argument that pirates won't or can't neccesarily buy what they download? I back that up. I'd buy everything I've pirated if I could.

If you can't afford certain entertainment, then, I'm sorry, but learn to do without. You can't just decided what you will and won't pay for. The economy doesn't work that way.

I understand that torrenting, downloading, and other kinds of piracy are a fact of life. What I take issue with is people (you, in this instance) that act like doing it is some kind of right. It's not. It'll illegal and it's taking money out of the pockets of people who need it in order to generate more content.

You want to download stuff? Go for it. But don't try to justify it and complain when somebody (in this case, the government) makes it more difficult for you to continue illegal activity. You are against internet censorship for all the wrong reasons. In fact, your reason for being against internet censorship is the reason it's being suggested in the first place.

[Hot Shot]

It'll illegal and it's taking money out of the pockets of people who need it in order to generate more content.

I don't want to argue the morals about the whole thing, but I almost never torrent current comics.

And you have to understand something: I'm not taking money from anyone if I can't afford it anyway. The past few years my mom moved out, we've struggled to pay bills, my dad took a $7,000 a year pay cut, we lost two cars to an accident and old age which my dad needed to work, and now finally we have to vacate our house next month. I can still scrape up money to buy some figures, but that's all. Why shouldn't I occasionally, harmlessly download old, old comics to escape from that?

[Ozz]

And you have to understand something: *sob story*

You want to download stuff? Go for it. But don't try to justify it

...because, among other things, nobody important really cares.

Besides, the less people read/watch stuff they believe is ****, the less they complain about it on the Internet, and thus world is a better place.

[Kaylee]

the less they complain about it on the Internet, and thus world is a better place.

Truth. Take away nekkid ladies and UTTER RAGEFILLED BILE and I think you only have about three websites left...

[Brendocon]

Way I see it, the only reason somebody would need to stay current on comics is so that they can wade into interweb arguments about them there and then. In many instances in a bid to be the first one to come up with some hilariously witty criticism.

But it doesn't matter. Because it's not vital. People will wait a month or six to discuss something if it really was worthwhile.

My sanity and calmness is so much more improved now that I don't have twice-monthly bitching competitions with people about whatever TF comic IDW farted out that week.

It's physically impossible for anybody to consume every current film, tv series, comic, bit of music or video game as it's released. We're all working to different schedules on stuff.

I'm still reading book 4 of A Song of Ice and Fire. I only saw The Princess Bride for the first time last year. I still haven't seen the Sopranos. I've only just finished LA Noire. I'm still pre-Ultimatum in the Marvel comics-verse. But my life isn't any less worthwhile for not having been able to have interweb arguments about these things yet. As and when I'm done with them, I'm sure there'll be plenty of people left with enough interest for me to be able to have a sensible chat about the things I want to discuss.

There is no need to stay current, other than selfish impatience and the behaviour of snobby elitist "FIRST!" muppets who try to make you feel small for not being on the absolute cutting edge.

In other words: consume stuff at a rate you're comfortable with and can afford, and because you enjoy it. Not because some other people dictate that you're only worth a damn if you've done X yet.

[Kaylee]

In many instances in a bid to be the first one to come up with some hilariously witty criticism.

But I have so little else to look forward to...

[Brendocon]

[Hilarious comeback]