I wear a stetson now. Stetsons are cool.

[Best First]

Just scanned through the above and all i really have to add is River spinning round and shooting the sh*t out of The Silent was one of the highlights of my day.

[inflatable dalek]

Generally a fun episode, even if the ending was a bit dodgy (all the pirates decided to go be space adventurers?).

Mind, you could tell it was originally conceived for the second half of the season (even if, IIRC they didn't start filming it till after they'd decided to switch the Gattis episode). The mentions of last weeks events felt a bit forced.

[spiderfrommars]

The mentions of last weeks events felt a bit forced.

I thought so too. And one of the pirates just kind of vanished half way through.

But generally a good bit of fun. I like to use my brain a bit more when watching Doctor Who though. However, I've no doubt that those saying it was too complicated last week will be saying this one was too predictable!

[inflatable dalek]

Oh, and it's interesting that other writers are starting to reuse the Moff's old ideas as well. The central McGuffin of a advanced alien medical ship arriving on Earth, going wrong and trying to heal various humans without much of a clue as to how to do it is effectively the same as The Empty Doctor Dances (which itself borrows heavily from the Star Trek episode The Cage with the aliens not knowing what a human looks like and fixing them wrong).

And did the pirate Captain have to pretend to be married to all the pirates to get them off the tables?

[Best First]

Could being their Captain be seen as an equally sufficient role to take the burden of their responsibility?

Esp when most of them had light grazes to recover from?

Was good, but not as much fun as the opening 2 parter.

[inflatable dalek]

I'm still disapointed Cole and Karren didn't have a leg-off contest.

[Guest]

Say goodbye with The Hand of Fear.

Parts 1 & 2 tonight and parts 3 & 4 tomorrow night on BBC4.

I had no idea the BBC lurk on TransFans.

Unless Dave had something to do with it?

[spiderfrommars]

They don't listen to me.

Just found out none of the bands I suggested are playing the Beeb stage at Glasto.

[Brendocon]

Is it mean to say I was reminded of Stones of Blood?

Lovely little episode. We arrive in some gimmicky period piece. There's a monster! Aaah! Actually it's an alien! But it's okay, it's really benign. Yay.

Could have been a Tom Baker story.

Didn't buy the stuff with the cap'n and his son at all. But other than that, decent Sunday evening wind-down fun. Arrrr.

[Brendocon]

Just found out none of the bands I suggested are playing the Beeb stage at Glasto.

Yes, but you suggested Spinal Tap and Shed 7.

[inflatable dalek]

Is it mean to say I was reminded of Stones of Blood?

That's what was lurking at the back of my mind as well. The two ships inside each other idea is a bit Nightmare of Eden as well (though I've no idea how much of a fan the author is, he might have had no idea it was familiar turf).

Parts 1 & 2 tonight and parts 3 & 4 tomorrow night on BBC4.

Couldn't they have shown a good story as a tribute though? I believe there's a few of those with Sarah in so they weren't struggling for choice. Or at least one where, outside of the last scene, it's not very forgiving to Sarah. She's spends most of it evil, dresses like an escaped mental patient (tellingly the only thing everyone remembers outside of the goodbye is the Andy Pandy tribute) and has suffered from such extreme character erosion over her three years she's almost unrecognisable as the feisty and strong journalist who pumped up the flagging Pertwee era.

[inflatable dalek]

And as a word of warning, NBC's breakfast show did a feature on Who this Monday as part of its "Look at them their funny foreign TV shows" segment that, though very funny (it only just stops short of doing the "I'm in Wales, England" thing) is best avoided on youtube as it's got massive, massive spoilers in it.

Including (somewhat unexpected) returning characters and monsters.

[Brendocon]

I wouldn't call the return of the Jagaroth unexpected.

[inflatable dalek]

I wouldn't call the return of the Jagaroth unexpected.

Worryingly, because of the Lodger Tardis looking somewhat like one of their ships from the outside (when not disguised as a top floor obviously) and caused much speculation at the time to that effect, I have no idea if your joking or not.

Oh, that reminds me, back in episode 2 it was implied that the LodgerIS was the same Silent ship we see there, just at a later point in its history (the Doctor's sarcastic "It was abandoned... I wonder how that happened" line just before River kills everything dead seems to heavily suggest it). So how did it get from America to England?

[Guest]

I wouldn't call the return of the Jagaroth unexpected.

Worryingly, because of the Lodger Tardis looking somewhat like one of their ships from the outside (when not disguised as a top floor obviously) and caused much speculation at the time to that effect, I have no idea if your joking or not.

Oh, that reminds me, back in episode 2 it was implied that the LodgerIS was the same Silent ship we see there, just at a later point in its history (the Doctor's sarcastic "It was abandoned... I wonder how that happened" line just before River kills everything dead seems to heavily suggest it). So how did it get from America to England?

Wait, since when was the spaceship in The Lodger a TARDIS? And how does the Silents' control room looking like the Lodger spaceship's control room make them the same thing?

[inflatable dalek]

Wait, since when was the spaceship in The Lodger a TARDIS? And how does the Silents' control room looking like the Lodger spaceship's control room make them the same thing?

It's not, it's just someone's (presumably the Silent's at they just steal other people's ideas) attempt to build a Tardis. Hence it generally being refereed to by fans as "The Lodger Tardis" for want of a better name (though now we know who owns it "The Silent's faux Tardis" might take off).

And it doesn't just look like the Lodger ship, it's exactly the same set. And the Doctor talks about The Lodger when saying he's seen one before. I'd say that's fairly conclusive that, even if it's exactly the same ship, that they're the same type of vessel (though again, the lines imply we're supposed to think they're one and the same). And come to think of it, considering their lack of imagination, the Silence probably do call it a Tardis anyway.

[Brendocon]

It was indeed a joke. I already know about the returning characters and monsters. Unless there are bonus ones I don't already know about, obvs.

Doesn't The Doctor follow up the "I wonder how that happened?" with something to the effect of "Guess we'll find out in a moment" or did I imagine that?

I wouldn't go so far as to presume that the ship from Day of the Moon is the exact same one as The Lodger, but it's quite obviously the same model (being as it's the same set, as mentioned). Fair to assume the Silence have several ships dotted about the planet.

[inflatable dalek]

Doesn't The Doctor follow up the "I wonder how that happened?" with something to the effect of "Guess we'll find out in a moment" or did I imagine that?

I think your right.

I wouldn't go so far as to presume that the ship from Day of the Moon is the exact same one as The Lodger

That's true enough, he is just guessing after all. In many ways it would probably be better iit isn't as if it were it means that by not going back to deal with the abandoned ship and get rid of it he's responsible for all the people it kills in the intervening decades.

Having now finished my mission to relisten to all the Big Finish stuff (as part of a plan to put it all on my computer), I was tickled today to reach A Death in the Family from the end of last year. In which the 7th Doctor is killed, but a version from a different point in his life turns up. Considering BBC Wales must have known what was coming just a few months later and they've stopped Big Finish doing stuff that, by coincidence, resembles their plans before (so they've had to remove Queen Victoria and Agatha Christie from scripts) I'm amazed that one got through. The main difference in set up is it's the younger Doctor who dies, and the elder has to set in motion the events that will save him before the Marty McFly erasure from history effect catches up with him.

It was indeed a joke. I already know about the returning characters and monsters. Unless there are bonus ones I don't already know about, obvs.

Ah, wasn't sure. It's been a good day for me firmly misunderstanding things.

SPOILERS BELOW





REAL SPOILERS









SPOILERISH STUFF GUARANTEED





Churchill popping up again isn't totally surprising, but Silurian Scientist Guy was something of a shock. Looks like (unsurprisingly perhaps) it's going to be a timey wimey end of year plot with an alternate, modern day Roman Empire (led by Churchill!) empire thing going on. Which is kind of nice, Doctor Who and the Iron Legion on TV at last.

I'm not sure if the Cybusmen (complete with logo) being in the feature is indicative of anything, or that they just grabbed some unaltered costumes out of storage to chase her about.

[Guest]

Wait, since when was the spaceship in The Lodger a TARDIS? And how does the Silents' control room looking like the Lodger spaceship's control room make them the same thing?

It's not, it's just someone's (presumably the Silent's at they just steal other people's ideas) attempt to build a Tardis. Hence it generally being refereed to by fans as "The Lodger Tardis" for want of a better name (though now we know who owns it "The Silent's faux Tardis" might take off).

And it doesn't just look like the Lodger ship, it's exactly the same set. And the Doctor talks about The Lodger when saying he's seen one before. I'd say that's fairly conclusive that, even if it's exactly the same ship, that they're the same type of vessel (though again, the lines imply we're supposed to think they're one and the same). And come to think of it, considering their lack of imagination, the Silence probably do call it a Tardis anyway.

OK, sorry. Bad phrasing on my part.

What I meant was:

1) Where does the idea that it's a TARDIS, or imitation thereof, come from?

What I mean is, just because it was a spaceship that could disguise its outward appearance doesn't automatically make it a TARDIS or imitation. Other civilsations could, and probably have, made chameleonic stealth tech.

2) Where does the idea that the two control rooms are from the same ship come from?

With this, yeah, it's likely that they're from the same kind of spacecraft, or even just the same technological civilisation. However, there's no proof that they're the same control room at different ages. Also, as the Silents have taken technology from dozens of civilisations, there's nothing to suggest that the control room(s) is/are Silent technology. At least, not the Lodger one, at any rate.

[inflatable dalek]

1) Where does the idea that it's a TARDIS, or imitation thereof, come from?

Well, as said, fans before this season had taken to calling it "The Lodger Tardis". Because in that episode the Doctor emphatically says it's someone's attempt to build their own Tardis (and previously the time rotor surrounded by six control panels is something we've only ever seen in a Tardis rather than any of the other time machines in the show like the Dalek DARDIS [No really, that's what the Dalek time machine is called. Thankfully only in scripts...], so it clearly takes the design ethos from the Time Lords).

And thus "The Lodger Tardis" is quicker to type than "The featured time machine in The Lodger that was built to be like a Tardis", even if the Silence don't call it a Tardis themselves (if we ever do hear what they call it fans will probably start using that name. SIDRAT's are rumoured to be making a return this year...).

And of course, it being someone's attempt to build their own Tardis actually ties in perfectly with what we now know about the Silence, they don't have their own ideas, they reuse other species.

And what's impressive about that is it sounds like something that was planned all along. But YThe Lodger was a last second filler episode quickly written to replace the original Rory-less version of the Neil Gaiman episode when it proved to be too expensive. It couldn't possibly have been properly planned in advanced, so the Moff must have just decided he liked the idea/the set and incorporated it into the Silence Arc. Pretty much seamlessly. That's kind of awesome.

What I mean is, just because it was a spaceship that could disguise its outward appearance doesn't automatically make it a TARDIS or imitation. Other civilsations could, and probably have, made chameleonic stealth tech.

True, but (sorry for repeating myself here) the dialouge in The Lodger makes it clear it is an imitation Tardis. Which fits in with what we're told the Silence do ect.

2) Where does the idea that the two control rooms are from the same ship come from?

From dialouge in Day of the Moon. Which (and I'm paraphasing) was along the lines of: "I've seen one of these before, abandoned. I wonder how that happened. Gues we're about to find out..." *River kills the entire crew*. Now, the Doctor might be wrong here, but he clearly thinks it's exactly the same ship for the gag to work.

With this, yeah, it's likely that they're from the same kind of spacecraft, or even just the same technological civilisation. However, there's no proof that they're the same control room at different ages. Also, as the Silents have taken technology from dozens of civilisations, there's nothing to suggest that the control room(s) is/are Silent technology. At least, not the Lodger one, at any rate.

Fair enough, it's not entirely certain it's the exactly the same ship. But, it's far more than likely it's the same type of ship, it's pretty much a certainty. First, it's exactly the same set. Not even redressed (as say, the Doctor's Tardis would be painted black to represent the Master's in the 80's. Or the Movie Enterprise bridge would have a different dedication plaque stuck in it to make it stand in for every single other Starship in the first two or three years of The Next Generation. Secondly, the Doctor says it's the same tyoe of machine he met in The Lodger, even if he's only guessing/joking it's exactly the same one. Thirdly, in The Lodger we get told it's an imitation Tardis. And the Silence are a species who don't create their own technology, just steal and adapt other species. So it's a fair bet it's their machine. Unless by amazing coincidence they just happen to meet the Doctor whilst hanging about in a time machine that just happens to be based on stolen ideas but they had nothing to do with.

In terms of a surprise twist, the most likely is that the tech is based on SIDRAT's and it was the War Lord's people who gave it to the Silence. But, however popular a theory that is at the moment amongst fans, that seems a bit too fanish to seem likely to me. Bringing the Macra back for a one off gag in a filler episode is fair enough, making the main end of season villains a species that haven't been seen since their one showing in 1969? When you could just use the Master (who Terrance Dicks basically recycled from the War Chief anyway) to do the same sort of thing instead? I wouldn't bet money on it.

Especially as the most notable thing about the War Lord was that "Time Lord" was likely created as a name that sounded like a counterpart rather than anything especially ominous, just so it could be slipped casually into dialogue without sounding important for the end of The War Games.

[Guest]

1) Where does the idea that it's a TARDIS, or imitation thereof, come from?

Well, as said, fans before this season had taken to calling it "The Lodger Tardis". Because in that episode the Doctor emphatically says it's someone's attempt to build their own Tardis (and previously the time rotor surrounded by six control panels is something we've only ever seen in a Tardis rather than any of the other time machines in the show like the Dalek DARDIS [No really, that's what the Dalek time machine is called. Thankfully only in scripts...], so it clearly takes the design ethos from the Time Lords).

I know. I've watched The Chase. It reminded me of one of those pay-toilets.

And thus "The Lodger Tardis" is quicker to type than "The featured time machine in The Lodger that was built to be like a Tardis", even if the Silence don't call it a Tardis themselves (if we ever do hear what they call it fans will probably start using that name. SIDRAT's are rumoured to be making a return this year...).

Oh, nice. Willy Wonka's Opaque Great Glass Elevators! Ding! Ground Floor! World War 2 and Medieval Warfare!

And of course, it being someone's attempt to build their own Tardis actually ties in perfectly with what we now know about the Silence, they don't have their own ideas, they reuse other species.

And what's impressive about that is it sounds like something that was planned all along. But YThe Lodger was a last second filler episode quickly written to replace the original Rory-less version of the Neil Gaiman episode when it proved to be too expensive. It couldn't possibly have been properly planned in advanced, so the Moff must have just decided he liked the idea/the set and incorporated it into the Silence Arc. Pretty much seamlessly. That's kind of awesome.

What I mean is, just because it was a spaceship that could disguise its outward appearance doesn't automatically make it a TARDIS or imitation. Other civilsations could, and probably have, made chameleonic stealth tech.

True, but (sorry for repeating myself here) the dialouge in The Lodger makes it clear it is an imitation Tardis. Which fits in with what we're told the Silence do ect.

Right. Gotcha. Hadn't watched it in a while, so didn't know it was explicitly mentioned.

2) Where does the idea that the two control rooms are from the same ship come from?

From dialouge in Day of the Moon. Which (and I'm paraphasing) was along the lines of: "I've seen one of these before, abandoned. I wonder how that happened. Gues we're about to find out..." *River kills the entire crew*. Now, the Doctor might be wrong here, but he clearly thinks it's exactly the same ship for the gag to work.

That makes sense.

With this, yeah, it's likely that they're from the same kind of spacecraft, or even just the same technological civilisation. However, there's no proof that they're the same control room at different ages. Also, as the Silents have taken technology from dozens of civilisations, there's nothing to suggest that the control room(s) is/are Silent technology. At least, not the Lodger one, at any rate.

Fair enough, it's not entirely certain it's the exactly the same ship. But, it's far more than likely it's the same type of ship, it's pretty much a certainty. First, it's exactly the same set. Not even redressed (as say, the Doctor's Tardis would be painted black to represent the Master's in the 80's. Or the Movie Enterprise bridge would have a different dedication plaque stuck in it to make it stand in for every single other Starship in the first two or three years of The Next Generation. Secondly, the Doctor says it's the same tyoe of machine he met in The Lodger, even if he's only guessing/joking it's exactly the same one. Thirdly, in The Lodger we get told it's an imitation Tardis. And the Silence are a species who don't create their own technology, just steal and adapt other species. So it's a fair bet it's their machine. Unless by amazing coincidence they just happen to meet the Doctor whilst hanging about in a time machine that just happens to be based on stolen ideas but they had nothing to do with.

In terms of a surprise twist, the most likely is that the tech is based on SIDRAT's and it was the War Lord's people who gave it to the Silence. But, however popular a theory that is at the moment amongst fans, that seems a bit too fanish to seem likely to me. Bringing the Macra back for a one off gag in a filler episode is fair enough, making the main end of season villains a species that haven't been seen since their one showing in 1969? When you could just use the Master (who Terrance Dicks basically recycled from the War Chief anyway) to do the same sort of thing instead? I wouldn't bet money on it.

Especially as the most notable thing about the War Lord was that "Time Lord" was likely created as a name that sounded like a counterpart rather than anything especially ominous, just so it could be slipped casually into dialogue without sounding important for the end of The War Games.

Of course, the SIDRATs were cannibalised from the War Chief's TARDIS, but would that necessarily imply that any future appearance of SIDRATs mean there's at least one other TARDIS out there, cannibalised. Maybe not the War Chief's (he probably got a harsher sentence than the Doctor), but another Time Lord? Could this be an opener for the Meddler, for example? Last seen (on TV at least) with a crippled TARDIS, cannibalising it is no great leap of imagination.

[inflatable dalek]

Or a surrviving SIDRAT from The War Games got used.

Mind, the SIDRAT rumour seems to be based entirely around Gaiman claiming his episode featured something from The War Games. And as the trailer appears to have the Doctor getting "mail" from another Time Lord in the shape of a white cube they may well be wide of the mark.

[inflatable dalek]

Doctor Who and the Revenge of the Roundels













Yay for the old school corridors (shame it didn't extend to an original style console room as well, but seeing the Tennant version was nice, especially as we finally got the interior door!).

A really nice episode, fun and fast and thankfully didn't try to pretend the title was anything other than a metaphor. Lots of nice fast gags and fun moments. And the eye of Orion!

Was Helana Bonham Carter too expensive once they'd paid Michael Sheen to do the voiceover then?

Oh, anf FFS people, someone gives you a mysterious message with the word "River" in it and none of you mention the obvious person it might refer too? At least the Human Tardis was barking enough to leave cryptic clues rather than just saying "River's the Rani" or whatever.

[Brendocon]

I liked that.

It could easily have been awful. And it's a central premise that I'll find impossible to explain to anybody without it sounding ****.

But I enjoyed it. So yay.

[spiderfrommars]

Yeah, very nice. I thought Idris would turn out to be a Time Lord (possibly even Romana) but I was much happier with what we got.

Gaiman had a lot of fun with even the smallest throwaway lines. Rory asking the Doctor if he had a bedroom was sort of fannish and poignant at the same time.

Though the old beardy Rory was a bit Monty Python.

[inflatable dalek]

Mind, for the most part it did feel like they had indeed given Rory half Amy's lines. The only bit (other than the obligatory mention of the Arc Plot tm) was this weeks horrible death for him. Which is getting to be a bit silly...)

[Best First]

Though the old beardy Rory was a bit Monty Python.

"It's"

Yeah, that was great - could have maybe done with a bit more insight into WTF the baddie was given he seemed capable of almost anything. But other than that a really sweet one - Smith was impeccable.

Liked Rory being the "pretty one" even tho i saw it coming.

[Brendocon]

http://hijinksensue.com/2011/04/29/something-blue/

[Brendocon]

Enjoyed the Rebel Flesh.

Nice to be reminded of the Time Meddler by the little music/monastery bit.

[inflatable dalek]

Yep, decent episode even if the cliffhanger was 100% obvious from the moment they all got knocked out. I'm wondering if it'll turn out none of the workers were ever real...