Hoisted Upon Their Own Petards!

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:39 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_be_u ... 28Islam%29

I expect better Google Fu from you, Rebis!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:47 pm

Brendocon wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_be_u ... 28Islam%29

I expect better Google Fu from you, Rebis!

In what respect? For noticing that the phrase "Prophet Bobby Henderson (PBUH)" could be turned into a pre-defined acronym by inserting an appropriate word beginning with U? In this case, a hesitation.

I expect better multi-layered critical retorts from you, Brend.

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:07 pm

I believe it was a joke.

Keep in mind, I'm a horrible judge of most instances of meaning behind text. Mainly because I'm lazy.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:40 am

Well, at least no one's shown bumblemus up for misspelling the past tense of hoise.

Or for using the wrong kind of preposition.

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:05 am

Metal Vendetta wrote:
saysadie wrote:Bite your tongue.

Pastafarianism.
A fair point, though the Gospel according our Prophet Bobby Henderson (PBUH) tells us we shouldn't preach our religion, lest we get mistaken for all the other religious dicks out there

But those are more like guidelines, don'tcha know.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:54 am

Rebis wrote:In what respect?

In the respect that it's difficult to tell when you're being facetious and when you're being serious? And because you insist on taking the majority of my gags literally I figured I'd hedge my bets and do the same with you?

Post by **Best First** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:57 am

Metal Vendetta wrote:I'm not going to push the point, I was just trying to illustrate how "lighthearted fictional entertainment" can sometimes carry a more instructive message than the "dead serious truth", particularly with regards to concepts such as freedom.

For sure, but i struggle a bit with religion of peace into peace through tyranny in terms of making that point.

Yes religion can be tyrannical but so can the supossed proponents of Democracy.

Anyway, when looking for instructional life encapsulating philosophy involving lighhearted fictional entertainment - always go Spidey cos Mr Lee nailed it in one pithy sentance.

Which Joe Q then shoved up his arse, held onto while he ate a spicey fish taco and shat out again.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:58 am

Best First wrote:For sure, but i struggle a bit with religion of peace into peace through tyranny in terms of making that point.

Really? Oh. I didn't think it was that great a stretch.

Best First wrote:Yes religion can be tyrannical but so can the supossed proponents of Democracy.

"You can criticise X, but what about Y?"

Post by **Best First** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:57 am

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Best First wrote:For sure, but i struggle a bit with religion of peace into peace through tyranny in terms of making that point.
Really? Oh. I didn't think it was that great a stretch.

one is a fairly overt allegory of fascism, the other takes quite a bit more abuse to get to that point.

But i agree it can still get there.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:14 pm

Best First wrote:one is a fairly overt allegory of fascism

TBH I always thought it was in reference to Calgacus's description of the Romans: 'Atque ubi colitudinum faciunt pacem apellant', which kinda fits in with the Latin names and a fair bit of the early Cybertronian backstory like the State Games. I suppose the Romans could be seen as "fascist" from certain viewpoints though.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:11 pm

Didn't Eric What's His Name hijack that line for Mergatron: Origin?

It was one of those things that sounds kind of stupid coming from the bad guys mouth - he is trying to make him sound cool but it sounds like he is aware of his own failings - like calling yourselves The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants.

Then again 98% of M: O was stupid, so eh.

I think "They create a desolation and call it a peace" was intended as a criticism whereas "peace through tyranny" is more of an authoritarian statement of intent. However there are, as you say, obvious correlations between the Roman Empire (at points) and Facisim - authoritarianism, inclusive rights for citizens (but with a defined sense of the non citizen) and a view of creating a top down better world based on the vision that you are essentially better than those you are changing. Rome probably showed more glimmers of democracy than fascist groups/regimes have though.

Perhaps it's simpler to just say it's an overt authoritarianist statement. All under me, all under my rules. Or else.

So in conclusion more like Catholicisim.

---

on a seperate note - the aspects of Cybertron you mention all predate Megs uprising (in all continuities i think) so in theory he is anti and no pro them, which takes him a bit away from the Roman vision i guess. Unlike poor 'ol Siezer and co.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:25 pm

Best First wrote:on a seperate note - the aspects of Cybertron you mention all predate Megs uprising (in all continuities i think) so in theory he is anti and no pro them, which takes him a bit away from the Roman vision i guess. Unlike poor 'ol Siezer and co.

Taking the analogy a little further I always saw Megs (in the early days at least) more like Julius Caesar - looking to take a republic and turn it into an empire, contrary to the prevailing political spirit of the time. Stuff like the obvious design similarities between him and Xaaron reinforces this view; that Megs was once "one of them" before striking out on his own course. Probably reading far too much into it, but there are comparisons between the two anyway.

BF wrote:Perhaps it's simpler to just say it's an overt authoritarianist statement. All under me, all under my rules. Or else.

So in conclusion more like Catholicisim.

Pretty much. The Vatican's always had fascist leanings; just look at the European countries it backed during the 30s and 40s: Spain, Italy and Germany. To make matters worse, neither the Pope nor Tony Blair seem to have heard of Godwin's Law, insisting that the Third Reich was a product of atheism, despite reams of evidence to the contrary. In the Pope's case you can see why he'd want to distance himself from it, but TB really has no excuse (alongside being a multi-millionaire who started two wars, claiming to follow Jesus' example, the hypocritical mother****ing ****).

On a related note, the Cristopher Hitchens vs. Tony Blair debate on whether religion is a force for good in the world is highly-recommended viewing, by the way, if only to watch Hitchens absolutely wipe the floor with the swivel-eyed lunatic, reduced to parrotting a couple of platitudes like "not all religious people are bad" over and over. Oh, and when he's directly asked about the Vatican's position on condoms, he completely sidesteps the question.

Youtube has it, starting here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ3IsS1ZJ-k

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:54 pm

Rebis wrote:Well, at least no one's shown bumblemus up for misspelling the past tense of hoise.

Or for using the wrong kind of preposition.

But those are more like guidelines, doncha know.

Anyone read the Irvine novel? What was his take on Megatron?

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:05 pm

Not read it myself, but it looks interesting. Owes a little bit too much to Origin though.
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Megatron_%28Prime%29