Does somebody actually give a ****? Really? (Thor)

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:28 pm

Idris Elba, a fantastic actor, is playing Heimdall. People are pissed because he's black. I understand that Elba hardly looks Norse, but when has the Marvel version ever been faithful to the real Norse tales? Sif isn't blonde, Thor isn't a dimwitted redhead, and Odin isn't one-eyed in Marvel.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2010/ ... ace-debate

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:57 am

meh. if someone tries to say "I dont want to sound racist butt.." they are going to say something racist.

Im going to say something that is pretty much black and white (pun intended): Political correctness goes too far sometimes. Is this really an issue? No. But as one person pointed out, Im pretty sure there would be one hell of an upheaval if Brad Pitt was cast as Black Panther.

"But hes an excellent actor!"
"But its BLACK Panther"
"Youre being racist!"
"Its not racism when its against white people!"
(Unfortunately, this last statement pretty much sums up current race relations in the U.S.)

Me? I dont care. I think hes an excellent actor and will do an outstanding job. But lets be honest here, you cant really deviate MORE from a character description.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:48 am

I can understand how the factual mythology calls for a caucasian character, and thus how some people (Norse culture fanboys, not comic book fanboys) might have a problem with the casting, similar to the Last Airbender.

I can understand how/why Marvel is going to do something more with the Gods in Thor than just straight up classic mythology.

This seems like less a matter of political correctness and more comic fanboys looking for a reason to whine, especially considering the lack of outrage over the Kingpin in Daredevil, and the ADORATION of Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:44 am

It's Idris ******* Elba for god's sake. You could cast him as Hitler and I wouldn't be bothered.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:44 am

As an aside Its got nothing to do with politcial correctnes - political correctness is a focus on use of language to try and diffuse or remove embedded ideas - the modern "gone md" usage of anthing ever where people feel other peole are being other zealous in relation to seemingly anything from race to health and safety is a load of wibble wobble (no offence to fat c***s)

On topic I can see why some people would be a bit miffed - the 2 counter arguements seems to be "Idris Elba is ace" and "ah but its not real so it doesn't matter anyway"

the first one is of course entirely true

the second one is pretty patronising to people who care about this stuff. I'm not sure the Black Panther example stacks though, as it's not as if we have a black Thor - its more akin to Nezhno being recast as a white guy.

Either way though, the arguement that it's not real doesn't really work as it's based on well established source material that has a large following, so expounding suprise when you change something that is reasonable significant (i.e a norse person being black, which isn't exactly what they are famed for and distinguishes the sitch from the Kingpin and Fury examples a bit) i don't think it should be a suprise that a small number of people get a bit excited about it and nor should it be automatcially assumed that the response is racist, which there was a tone of in the reporting i saw.

So in short i think they probably should have responded by saying something along the lines of "We accept that some of the changes we have made might not be to the tastes of evey Thor fan, but where we have made changes we believe it's for the better of the film and the Avengers franchise and if one such change means we can have an actor of Idris Elba's calibre in the cast then we think it's worth it."

"We think once fans see the gay love scene between Idris and Chris Hemsworth, and the way their agonisingly ripped oiled bodies interlock, they will understand what a great casting decsions this was and that the changes have not affected our overall dedication to the great story of Thor.

ok maybe not that second bit.

What they shouldn't have done is have Elba go on record as basically saying "well its all capes and flying hammers isn't it so what's the big deal"

"you stupid f***ing geeks"

Ok, maybe not that second bit - but he might as well have.

So, not the end of the world. But not handled as well as it could have been. The story itself is basically "People have an opinion about a casting decison in a comic film - possible but unprovable racist element to story"

To be honest my main thought after writing this is that Thor has a way better suporting cast than Black Panther.

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:47 am

I think it's going to look odd. If I hadn't read this article, I would have pointed it out while watching the movie. *shrug*

The boyfriend is annoyed by it. I think that if I hadn't read this topic/the article, I would have been at first as well. Visually, it wouldn't have made much sense. He is also possibly more annoyed because he really likes Thor, while I don't really care either way.

As always, it comes down to "Let's see how it pans out".

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:15 am

I'd like to see Pacheco base Heimdall's appearance in Ultimate Comics Thor on Elba to find out if it would stop the criticism.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:56 am

Best First wrote:
"We think once fans see the gay love scene between Idris and Chris Hemsworth, and the way their agonisingly ripped oiled bodies interlock, they will understand what a great casting decsions this was and that the changes have not affected our overall dedication to the great story of Thor.

Ebony and Ivory...

I'm not one to give tiers to purists. Marvel Thor ain't Norse Thor. Once you make Thor a heroic blonde battling Loki's evil instead of a dimwitted redhead constantly getting ****ed around by Loki, all bets are off. Heimdall can be black or a bloody woman for all I care.

Also, I echo that Elba could play Karen Carpenter in a Lifetime biopic and I'd watch.

Post by **snarl** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:57 pm

Everybody banging on about "Big driis" might want to go and check out Family Affairs...

Luther was a bit daft an all.

Ultraviolet on the other hand is ******* brilliant, and plus it's got that guy out of Flashforward in it. So go and get that, if you haven't already.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:41 pm

snarl wrote:Ultraviolet on the other hand is ******* brilliant, and plus it's got that guy out of Flashforward in it. So go and get that, if you haven't already.

For anyone who thought otherwise, that'd be the TV series, and not any of the films of the same name.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:24 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:and Odin isn't one-eyed in Marvel.

Eh.

http://marvel.com/news/moviestories.132 ... n~and~loki

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:53 pm

I think they're just doing it on purpose now.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:56 pm

I like that it's gold. Like a hip-hop pirate.

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:00 pm

Looking at that picture and the expressions on the faces of the other two, I get the impression that Odin isn't wearing any pants.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:00 pm

Is it true that Edward Norton won't reprise the Hulk for Avengers?

The best laid plans...

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:03 pm

Yup.

Edit: KASTOLENED link from over yonder: http://www.empireonline.com/news/feed.asp?NID=28327

IronHide · Post by **IronHide** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:20 pm

Im waiting for Cap to make a Fantastic Four appearance. That'll be awkward.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:53 pm

sadie's links wrote:Our decision is definitely not one based on monetary factors, but instead rooted in the need for an actor who embodies the creativity and collaborative spirit of our other talented cast members. The Avengers demands players who thrive working as part of an ensemble, as evidenced by Robert, Chris H, Chris E, Sam, Scarlett, and all of our talented casts.

Bwuh? Hulk is team player now?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:59 am

Hulk's not an actor. So no.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:17 pm

In other questionable casting news...http://blog.newsarama.com/2010/07/15/ew ... con-cover/

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:27 pm

More linkage:

http://arts.nationalpost.com/2010/07/15 ... ern-debut/

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:52 pm

Remember the bogus trailer with Nathan Fillion?

Would have been a lot better.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:48 am

Can't believe Marvel was stupid enough to cut Norton out.

The guy is one of the best actors in all of Hollywood. Not to say Ruffolo is bad, I actually think he's quite good.

But Ed Norton. Ed Norton!

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:24 am

"HULK SAY BITE THE CURB!"

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:35 am

The only thing I can remember Edward Norton in is Hulk right now. I know I've seen him in other things but I'm drawing a blank.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:41 pm

He hasn't done that many movies, but his versatility as an actor is impressive. He's been in American Movie X and Primal Fear, for which he was nominated for Best Actor I believe. He was also in Fight Club.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:09 pm

He was in Kingdom of Heaven playing a part from behind a mask.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:17 pm

His most important cinematic role, however, was that of heel-turn thief Steve in the 2003 remake of The Italian Job.

Towering.

Yaya · Post by **Yaya** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:50 pm

How could I forget! Not just for Norton, but for those small cars.

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:18 pm

Can someone really be counted as one of the best actors in Hollywood if they've only been in six somewhat-notable roles?

Though the argument can be made that it's not really quantity etc... I'm too sick to care right now. I guess I'll rent Fight Club and The Italian Job tonight, I've only seen parts of both.

TransFans.co.uk

Does somebody actually give a ****? Really? (Thor)

Re: Does somebody actually give a ****? Really? (Thor)