New Trek (spoilers!)

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New Trek (spoilers!)

Post by BB Shockwave » Fri May 08, 2009 9:06 am

So, saw it yesterday (theatre was surprisingly empty, around 20 people on a premiere?)

Must say, mixed feelings. In many way it reminded me of Bayformers - a good action/sci-fi with Trek elements. Difference between this and Bayformers is, Trek elements were much more prominent. Still, there are some things that drag the experience down.

Good points:

-Kirk. Whoever that bloke is, he's perfect for the role of the smirking, daredevil but also intelligent captain (cadet, actually). Very good acting, and I did not miss Shatner's "Bring... this... ship...around..." plodding speech pattern.
-McCoy: Again, spot on actor and character moments ("Damn it, I'm a doctor, not a physicist!") and apparently he's also afraid of being in space, not just of transporters. Sadly he is mostly absent in the second half of the movie.
-Uhura - she's very much like a younger Nichols. However, her character is... see below.
-CGI: Is breathtaking. You gotta wonder how First Contact or Resurrection looked like if they had a budget like this. From Vulcan landscape and cities to the various starships, is really cool looking.
-Continuity: In an incredibly clever and unforseen plot twist (I bet this was the third writer's work, not Orci's) the whole movie becomes pretty much an alternate universe, due to the time-travel of an older Spock back to the begginnings of Kirk's life. So, the Trek we know still exists in some paralell universe, and this new movie is in another reality with a more emotional Spock, more responsible Kirk and well, without the planet Vulcan.
-Nimoy: He still RULES. And he has a pretty large role, not just a cameo. And, has some pretty funny moments. "I'd say, live long and prosper (to young Spock) but that'd seem selfish. So, prosper!")
-Captain Pike: It was a really nerdish moment to see him appear, and surprisingly he's not a hi-then-die character but survives to become an Admiral (in his trademark wheelchair, though I miss the funny blinking light).
-Little things like remembering Vulcans have green blood and are much stronger then humans, keeping the old uniforms almost intact.


Bad things:

-Plot. It's... shallow, sometimes takes leaps of logic so huge Unicron would fall through it, and the general story arc is very little. After spending half an hour on the mandatory character development, we are thrust into the thick of the action where lots of silly things happen just to make the story progress, such as Pike making Kirk from cadet to Number One on the spot (certainly there were more experienced officiers on board), Spock launching Kirk in an escape pod to an unhospitable planet for mutiny (erm, that's what the brig is for) just so that Kirk could meet older Spock and also have a mandatory "big scary alien chase" scene. (the beast is btw totally ripped of D&D's Etheral Marauder).
But the biggest issue is when Scotty manages to transport themselves aboard the Enterprise from LIGHTYEARS away! 'cause otherwise, you know, there was no way Kirk could get on the ship on time for the plot to progress.

-Nero (Eric Bana) and his ship. Well, after Gul Dukat, Khan or the Borg, one of the most shallow Trek villains of all time. Not to mention that he's romulan, which the writers felt the need to mention 10 times during the movie, mostly because he and his crew looks nothing like romulans (with beards, tatoos and bald heads) - not to mention I find it unlikely romulans would work as miners. They would find that work demeaning.
His ship is the most horrid thing ever seen in Trek, adorned with totally non-functional spikes to make it scary (see a pattern here? Megatron and the Cons got this treatment from Orci too). Also, being the size of a station, the ship still has no shield and is easily disabled by ramming another ship into it (happens twice in the movie). Not to mention, overpowered - I find it hard to believe that a romulan mining ship that is (judging by future Spock's age) around 10-20 years after Voyager's time, could destroy 27 klingon ships, the whole earth and vulcan fleet...

-Spock. Although he is well-written as a character, unfortunately Quinto just doesn't "sells" as a vulcan. I have seen background Trek Vulcans look more convincing in this outfit and prostethic ears. It doesn't help that he is constantly 'almost' smiling, which would make sense in the second half of the movie where he embraces his human half, but he does it in the first half too. In certain scenes, he is almost 'Sylar-creepy".... and the real Spock simply makes him fade in comparison when they are on screen together.

-Uhura: Apparently her character developement means that she flirts with Kirk and kisses Spock a lot. (yes, Spock, you heard me right).

-Scotty: never seen Simon Pegg before, but sadly he not only doesn't resemble Scotty much, the character is also totally unlike Scotty. Maybe i natural english his accent could make it work.

-Chekov: Man, he was annoying. The new Wesley Crusher... at least they could have found someone who looks a bit like Walter Koening. And - not sure how the english version is - but the hungarian dub so much overdid his russian accent that the whole theater was laughing every time he spoke.

-Zulu: Not having trouble with the character (they even got his fencing skills to play out) but just didn't like the actor.

-Aliens... or rather the lack of regular Trek aliens. For some strange reason we see no Andorians, Tellarites or Bolians, old federation races - but the writers put in a lot of weird new races which look more suited to Star Wars then the mostly humanoid Trek races. Also (sorry for being a nerd) there is an Orion girl in Starfleet although the orions did not join the federation yet at this time (or even later, come to think of it).

-Shaky Baycam. It strikes again, even though Bay is not affiliated with the movie.

-Some minor things: phasers now fire bursts, not rays. Torpedoes can now be shot down, apparenty Earth or Vulcan has no means of orbital defenses other then their fleets, and a borer that can bore to the core of a planet needs to be lowered into the atmosphere on a huge chain, not fired from the ship, 'cause it looks cool. Also, everyone seems to be aware that the Romulans are the same race as the Vulcans, even before history is altered by time-travel.

-And, you can create black holes with tomatoe sauce. :lol:

All in all - an entertaining movie for all audiences, but from a Trekkie point of view, it's not the holy grail. Far from it.

Still, if this movie spawns a new series, I'll be very, very happy.
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Post by NeoSpringer » Sat May 09, 2009 1:59 pm

Saw this last night and frankly thought it was rubbish, but my friend with me loved it, but she hasn't really watched Star Trek before, so maybe it just didn't live up to my preconceptions.

Aside from the extremely flimsy plot (quick, Vulcan's under attack, let's send a fleet full of cadets!) riddled with plot holes (beaming onto the Enterprise from, as BB Shockwave says, light years away), dodgy science (red matter, supernovae, black holes etc etc) and storytelling cliches (Nero's opening attack at the same time a certain future captain of the Enterprise is being born), the worst thing this film does is make the characters unlikeable, especially young Spock. I know he's meant to be conflicted with his emotions, but it is like watching an imposter. And all the smooching between Uhura and Spock - yuck. And Simon Pegg is horribly miscast as Scotty.

Good points are Chris Pine's performance as Kirk, which really surprised me how good he was, and the scenes with him and old Spock are wonderful. Karl Urban is spot on as Bones, and he and Kirk make a great team during the first half of the film.

But overall, very disappointing. Just didn't feel like Star Trek.

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Post by bumblemusprime » Sat May 09, 2009 4:16 pm

I loved it. Loved it six ways. It felt very much like the Original Series to me, with a lot of elements that were lost in Next Gen. It was unself-consciously campy, action-packed, funny, and full of great moments between these larger-than-life characters.

Yes, the plotholes were indeed enormous. Kirk becomes Captain by getting in a fistfight with Spock. WTF? But it was so much in the spirit of the 60s series, I forgave them.

I did like Zachary Quinto, though. Very much. Chris Pine was a damned good improvement over Shatner. And I liked Uhura--she certainly got more screen time than Nichols seemed to ever get in any TOS episodes or the 1-6 movies.

I agree about Nero, though. Ever since Khan the Trek movies have tried to throw up an obligatory scenery-chewing villain. General Chang in VI, with his Shakespeare-spouting as he blows **** up, came close, and the Borg Queen the only equal of Khan precisely because she was soooo different.

Otherwise, Kruge, Saren, Isurrection Dude, Nemesis Dude, and now Nero are pathetic attempts at Khan.

But all in all, it made me excited about Star Trek, which I thought nothing could ever do again. It even reclaimed some of the territory Firefly took from Trek in my heart. I'm going to go off and watch some TOS on Hulu now.

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Post by stranger » Sun May 10, 2009 3:29 pm

I loved it. It wasn't bogged down with continuity and nerdy **** which has frankly reduced star trek of recent times to a complete and utter bore. Really looking forward to seeing where this can go...

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Post by IronHide » Mon May 11, 2009 2:45 am

To those with reservations about how the characters acted/developed, etc. Think of it this way. The movie is based on a completely ALTERNATE reality of how the original crew came to be. So it makes sense that some aspects of their behavior is different then that of the original (Uhura & Spock is the prime example). Not to mention its a very very young crew and why should they be expected to act like their older, alternate reality, counterparts?

I personally loved it, and as some who has every episode of TNG, Deep Space Nine and Voyager either recorded on VHS or DVD. I can say that it will be a welcome addition to the collection and Im excited to see what they do with the sequel.

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Post by Metal Vendetta » Mon May 11, 2009 8:41 am

Bah, I fell asleep during the last fifteen minutes :( Up until then I was loving it.
I would have waited a ******* eternity for this!!!!
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Post by Best First » Mon May 11, 2009 12:24 pm

I loved it - at least i loved it up until the point i got a pop corn kernal stuck in my throat and had to leave the cinema.

Luckily my friend followed me out and hiemliched me (ew) as the cinema staff and general public were of little use as i turned the colour of Spock's uniform.

Altho one of them was good enough to complain about me wretching into the 3d glasses bin for Coraline.

Anyway, went back yesterday and managed to survive the whole thing. I guess its an interesting test case as i have never been much into Trek, i'd watch it if it was on but always considered it a poor relation to more arc driven stuff. So basically looking at the first few posts i think i am lucky to be less precious about these guys than i am say, Optimus Prime as i was free to just enjoy a belter of a sci-fi movie.

Thought the casting was more or less universally excellent. Scotty was probably the biggest departure but Pegg put in a good show for me. Plus i liked his Rock Lord buddy.

Plot holes - yes. Was Nero supposed to be from further in the future than Spock? Spock said he showed up as soon as the Supernova was quelled but if that was the case why did his mining vessel have such advanced war kit? And agree with those pointed out above but to be honest itrattled along so well i found them forgivable.

Still - can't help but feel that these guys did far better service to Kirk and co than they did with Cybertronians.
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Post by stranger » Mon May 11, 2009 12:38 pm

Best First wrote:
Plot holes - yes. Was Nero supposed to be from further in the future than Spock? Spock said he showed up as soon as the Supernova was quelled but if that was the case why did his mining vessel have such advanced war kit? And agree with those pointed out above but to be honest itrattled along so well i found them forgivable.
IDW have put out a pretty decent comic that shows events leading into this film. I grabbed all 4 from itunes for peanuts, and definitely improves the overall understanding of the film. Even if the inclusion of all the next gen cast is bordering in fanwankery.

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Post by bumblemusprime » Mon May 11, 2009 4:53 pm

Puke First wrote:I loved it - at least i loved it up until the point i got a pop corn kernal stuck in my throat and had to leave the cinema.

Luckily my friend followed me out and hiemliched me (ew) as the cinema staff and general public were of little use as i turned the colour of Spock's uniform.

Altho one of them was good enough to complain about me wretching into the 3d glasses bin for Coraline.
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Post by Shanti418 » Tue May 12, 2009 6:52 am

I also thought it was super bad ass. There were plot holes, and it was a standard time travel and big baddie pic, but it was soooo fun and the characterization was spot on, ESPECIALLY Chris Pine. When I got teary eyed at the start with George Kirk, I knew that I was in. The bridge was cool, and I liked the multilayered seals of the doors. Spock and Uhura works, Kobiyashi Maru was awesome because Kirk is a dick, and they still got to release the warp cores to save the day! Ace.


The worst thing I can say about this movie is that when Spock did the classic voice over at the end, who here was NOT thinking about Optimus Prime at the end of Transformers The Movie? I sure was. And I was like, "Oh s***, did they just sell me a glitzy Bay Trek that was just a science fiction movie with some familiar characters attached, just as TF was just a action robot movie with some familiar characters attached?"

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Post by BB Shockwave » Tue May 12, 2009 7:47 am

Shanti418 wrote:Kobiyashi Maru was awesome because Kirk is a dick, and they still got to release the warp cores to save the day! Ace.

The worst thing I can say about this movie is that when Spock did the classic voice over at the end, who here was NOT thinking about Optimus Prime at the end of Transformers The Movie? I sure was. And I was like, "Oh s***, did they just sell me a glitzy Bay Trek that was just a science fiction movie with some familiar characters attached, just as TF was just a action robot movie with some familiar characters attached?"
That 's another thing -since when has a starship more then one warp core? And I wish they'd have kept the "big humming cylinder" design. Always looked so cool.

LOL, Bay Trek... :lol: I guess it is, because if you take away the Trek elements, it could be any sci-fi flick, set in Farscape/Riddick/Battlestar universe, for all we care.

That IDW prequel sounds interesting, will definetly check it out. I was always more of a Next Gen man - the old cast was great, but NG had far better plots (TOS always visited western/ancient roman/indian/post-apocalyptic USA worlds just for the sake of it) - even though some of the NG cast was pretty boring at first, they did mature into interesting characters by the second season (take Worf for example).
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Post by inflatable dalek » Tue May 12, 2009 8:14 am

The one long thin warp core didn't feature till the first film, I don't even think the term was used in the original show, so it's hard to say for sure it contradicts anything.
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Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue May 12, 2009 1:06 pm

The vertical warp core is introduced much later in ST due to a breakthrough in warp core design. ie, the dilethium crystals are constantly refined in the core and thus the core needs to be more accessiable.
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Post by NeoSpringer » Tue May 12, 2009 3:59 pm

BB Shockwave wrote: NG had far better plots (TOS always visited western/ancient roman/indian/post-apocalyptic USA worlds just for the sake of it)
That was mostly because they had to make do with whatever standing sets were available at the studio, and they happened to be mostly old western towns.

One nice touch I did like was Kirk eating an apple during the Kobiyashi Maru test, mirroring him eating an apple when he was telling the story in the Genesis cave in Wrath of Khan. Shame we never saw him get his commendation for it.

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Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue May 26, 2009 7:44 pm

best film ive seen i a long long time, loved every min, and im a huge trek fan. in the sense i can name an episode after seeing less than 5secs of it... no kidding!

It just ticked all the bozes for me, and Nimoy was ace!
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Post by Predabot » Sat May 30, 2009 10:25 pm

Just came back from seeing it!! Movie of the year! Loved just about everything in it, I went sing-a-long with the final credits with the theme-song, and YES I was also somewhat misty-eyed during the opening sequence.

All else I can say is...

MOOOOORRRRE!!!!
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Post by Dayton3 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:14 am

I'm a big fan of Star Trek.

I'm not a fan of this movie.

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Post by spiderfrommars » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:13 am

I like.

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Post by bumblemusprime » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:27 pm

Dayton3 wrote:I'm a big fan of Star Trek.

I'm not a fan of this movie.
How so? Splain.

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Post by Dayton3 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:23 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:
Dayton3 wrote:I'm a big fan of Star Trek.

I'm not a fan of this movie.
How so? Splain.
I thought it was horrendously bad with huge plot holes.

It was a cross between a parody of Star Trek and a Star Wars wannabe.

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Post by Guest » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:49 pm

I wouldn't say horrendously bad. Sure, there were a few possible let-downs, but overall a fairly decent movie.

I'm not going to bother going over things that have already been said, but something I did notice was the absence or omission of George Samuel Kirk.

Not James T Kirk's father, but his older brother. Someone who would have existed prior to the divergence and therefore should have been at least mentioned on the USS Kelvin, whether it was to confirm he had been killed in the attack, or that he was safe on Earth, or whatever.


Also, Ben Cross' portrayal of Sarek. What was happening there? They've got this guy playing Spock's father at an age younger than he was ever seen in TOS, and yet he looks older than he did in TNG!


As far as I'm concerned, Red Matter and galaxy-threatening supernovae are just standard Trek technobabble.

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Post by bumblemusprime » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:47 pm

Dayton3 wrote:
I thought it was horrendously bad with huge plot holes.
I always thought Trek pseudoscience was pretty far-fetched anyway, so the plotholes didn't seem that big of a deal.

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Post by inflatable dalek » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:25 pm

Rebis wrote: Also, Ben Cross' portrayal of Sarek. What was happening there? They've got this guy playing Spock's father at an age younger than he was ever seen in TOS, and yet he looks older than he did in TNG!
Simply down to them casting a actor actually old enough to be the dad of the guy playing Spock. Nimoy and Mark Leonard had that Harrison Ford/Sean Connery thing going on of only having a few years between them.
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Post by IronHide » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:17 pm

Dayton3 wrote:
I thought it was horrendously bad with huge plot holes.
Ah, well that definitely explains your point.

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Post by Shanti418 » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:02 am

Dayton3 wrote: It was a cross between a parody of Star Trek and a Star Wars wannabe.
If you were to entertain this bit of nonsense for a moment, they DO involve two corn fed blond haired American boys from the heartland forging past the death their fathers found in space to become heroes in their own right as they do battle against a giant planet killer.

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Post by Dayton3 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:55 am

Shanti418 wrote:
Dayton3 wrote: It was a cross between a parody of Star Trek and a Star Wars wannabe.
If you were to entertain this bit of nonsense for a moment, they DO involve two corn fed blond haired American boys from the heartland forging past the death their fathers found in space to become heroes in their own right as they do battle against a giant planet killer.
Luke Skywalker wasn't an American.

Heck he wasn't even from Earth.

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Post by bumblemusprime » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:15 pm

American enough. Those movies are about how the white man keeps the brother-man down, even in a galaxy far far away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0VZj-85E5o

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Post by Optimus Prime Rib » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:52 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:American enough. Those movies are about how the white man keeps the brother-man down, even in a galaxy far far away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0VZj-85E5o
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Post by Shanti418 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:40 pm

Dayton3 wrote:
Shanti418 wrote:
Dayton3 wrote: It was a cross between a parody of Star Trek and a Star Wars wannabe.
If you were to entertain this bit of nonsense for a moment, they DO involve two corn fed blond haired American boys from the heartland forging past the death their fathers found in space to become heroes in their own right as they do battle against a giant planet killer.
Luke Skywalker wasn't an American.

Heck he wasn't even from Earth.
Well then, I suppose the whole analogy falls under the weight of your crushingly detailed analysis. If only we as human beings had the capability to take out the word "American," understand the meaning of the rest of the statement, and comment on that.

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Post by IronHide » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:13 pm

bumblemusprime wrote:American enough. Those movies are about how the white man keeps the brother-man down, even in a galaxy far far away.
Pff. Lando ran that sh*t son. He had a ballin crib up IN THE MOTHERF**KIN CLOUDS! He even had a white slave who brought him cold Colt 45's.

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