The jumbo "BSG season 4.5 thread" [Spoilers!]

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:02 pm

I am satisfied.

About two or three years ago I said that it probably ends with 'us' being their descendants. I'm kinda glad that's how it turned out to be.

The only thing I have slightly problems with is that Lee and Kara didn't get a happy ending together. Not that it's bad how it turned out, it's just not how I would like it to.

And every prophecy and other weird suff made sense, right? Although I must say that fullfiling of Opera House vision had much less impact on overall plot than I'd expect. At least it seemed so to me when I was watching that because when I think about it now, if they didn't bring Hera to the bridge, the deal would not be proposed and the fight would not halt and humans would be decimated, right?

Do you think that the final conversation between the 'angels' was supposed to be signifant? I mean the part when 'Baltar' says the 'it' doesn't like to be called 'God'. Is 'it', I dunno, some kind of supercomputer for whom Cylons and humans are an expermiment and 'angels' are it's agents? Hmm, that's actually how God can be described.

Brendocon wrote:Typical. Racetrack jumps a raptor right into an unexpected asteroid field, right on top of a black hole... and still doesn't die. Bitch is unkillable.

Heh.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:00 pm

She obviously had divine protection up till now so that she could fulfill her role...

Ozz wrote:I am satisfied.

So say we all.

Was properly welling up at loads of points in the last hour.

So many bits of fried awesome. Especially the whole opera house thing clicking, when I realised they were about to go into the CIC and that the five were on the upper deck.

Full of win for Tyrol. And Boomer, too. Kara's "can we please not tell her the plan?". Cavil was great - "oh frak."

Thought the Kara resolution was beautiful. Helo having survived was a nice surprise after I'd written him off.

And the ending completely unexpected given the swerve they threw us midseason. Like Adama said - they earnt it. Though the robots montage at the end was a tony bit overplayed.

Nice cameo for Ron Moore at the end, too.

All in all, full of love.

There's no more confusion. They can all get some relief.

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:22 pm

Brendocon wrote:So say we all.

Not really, seen plenty of "It was perfect until Starbuck disappeared which ruined the show" bitching.

Cavil! Forgot about that bit... First thought after he shoots himself: "bastard has some hidden one time resurrection device and spare body, so he just run away".

There's supposed to be longer cut available on DVD, right? So I guess more stuff on Earth, maybe showing lesser characters.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:36 pm

Ozz wrote:
Brendocon wrote:So say we all.
Not really, seen plenty of "It was perfect until Starbuck disappeared which ruined the show" bitching.

We all. Frak the others. I'm personally happy, so ya boo sucks to the rest.

It's Kara's disappearance that ruins it? So these people are fine and dandy with Hera writing down the co-ordinates to Earth, and the ghost of Daddy Thrace teaching her how to play them on the piano?

I've seen some whining about how it devolving into philosophy and spirituality and religion is all unscientific and therefore sucks. Seriously, get over it. Those elements have been within the show right from the beginning.

Kara disappearing like that was perfect. She embraced and accepted her own death, then came back long enough to save humanity. Then she was gone. It's messianic and christlike and fits well with the religious overtones in the show - especially with the final scene possibly confirming that the monotheists are right (although not with the name they use).

She is the resurrection.

Saw a nice little note that her final scene is with Bill and Lee. The father, the son and the holy ghost. So to speak.

I'd like to see one of the gripers come up with a plausible scientific explanation. We saw her viper explode. We saw her dead body. We've had verified scientific evidence that the body was hers. Were people really expecting a physical rationale for it all by this point? We left "science is the only way" behind several seasons ago.

Seriously, frak 'em.

Apparantly Cavil topping himself was Stockwell's idea. And the colony then does drift into the black hole.

The DVDs will have extended cuts of A Disquiet Follows My Soul, Islanded in a Stream of Stars and Daybreak. Well, the R1 versions will have... pass on the rest of the world. Playback are bastards.

Hopefully Seelix is gonna be in the extension of Daybreak. She was the only thing missing as far as I was concerned. Great to see a cutback to Baltar's opera house vision from season 1.

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:18 pm

Brendocon wrote:It's Kara's disappearance that ruins it?

And the lack of explanation. But in this particular case one can come up with their own and there's really no need for anything more than what you typed below. If somebody needs to have it spelt for them, it's their problem.

At first I (and others too) was a bit disappointed that she and Lee didn't have a goodbye, but there really was no need for some tearful scene and it worked better with him turning back and her not being there. Like in that episode of Scrubs with Ben. And besides, that flashback that was showed right before her disappearance? "It was nice to meet you, Lee Adama." "Likewise, Kara Thrace." Now there's your goodbye scene.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:44 pm

I loved it.

I now have to decide if, beginning to end, it's the best TV series ever made.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:42 pm

Ozz wrote:
Brendocon wrote:It's Kara's disappearance that ruins it?
And the lack of explanation.

Mo Ryan did a good interview with RDM where he said that the more they tried to come up with a concrete explanation, the less satisfying it felt.

Which makes sense.

Great call on Scrubs. I've been racking my brain trying to think of the thing it reminded me of - that was it. I like when something echoes what I've seen before, but not in a way to make me immediately realise. It just sort of bubbled up in my mind a bit later.

"It was nice to meet you, Lee Adama." "Likewise, Kara Thrace." Now there's your goodbye scene.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:32 pm

So I'm seeing Heads Baltar and Six as angels.... (LOVED that moment when they saw both of them together at the same time)... but who or what is "God"?

Very impressed with how they tied up the opera house in the end. There was always this sense of dread and threat in those premonitions, and it turned out to be the opposite.

If I'm going to nitpick... 150,000 years seems an awful long time ago. They could've knocked a nought of that I reckon, and the impact on the human race would make more sense. Unless Hera was the only one who changed history (?)

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:24 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:So I'm seeing Heads Baltar and Six as angels.... (LOVED that moment when they saw both of them together at the same time)... but who or what is "God"?

Who or what is our God?

If I'm going to nitpick... 150,000 years seems an awful long time ago. They could've knocked a nought of that I reckon, and the impact on the human race would make more sense. Unless Hera was the only one who changed history (?)

First CroMagnon maybe? I don't know prehistorical timelines.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:43 pm

It was stunning. I cried afterwards...

I loved how Baltar and Caprica 6, the 2 responsible for killing humanity, were able to redeem themselves by saving Hera.

Roslin's last scenes were beautiful.

Q&A here

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/inde ... ald_d.html

I feel totally empty now. I just don't see how another show is going to move me in the same way ever again.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:28 am

I had goosepimples all over my whole body watching that. Yes, there were tears too. Fantastic television. I'm with Spidey on this one, I'm trying to think of a TV series that measures up to BSG and coming up short.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:22 am

Brendocon wrote:
spiderfrommars wrote:So I'm seeing Heads Baltar and Six as angels.... (LOVED that moment when they saw both of them together at the same time)... but who or what is "God"?
Who or what is our God?

But something divine was working through them, right? And that which brought Starbuck back?

Metal Vendetta wrote:I had goosepimples all over my whole body watching that. Yes, there were tears too. Fantastic television. I'm with Spidey on this one, I'm trying to think of a TV series that measures up to BSG and coming up short.

I think it's a zillion times better than Lost for instance. If they tie all the loose ends on that one it would've have still have gone about 3 years too long.

Ideally, with BSG you could shave 5 to 10 episodes off it. But it's been an exhilarating journey none the less.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:40 am

spiderfrommars wrote:But something divine was working through them, right? And that which brought Starbuck back?

Yepyep.

Fun things to know and share:

- Joan of Arc claimed to have visions from God. Modern science theorises she had a brain tumour which may have caused her to hallucinate. Does that mean that God wasn't talking to her?

- Paul McCartney woke up with a tune lodged in his head and spent a month trying to find out what it was. Nobody recognised it. It went on to become the song Yesterday. Sometimes the songs write themselves.

- There's a town in Italy called Gaeta.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:34 pm

More comments from RDM here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407362/boa ... 690770?p=1

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:44 pm

Yeah, that's the Mo Ryan interview I mentioned.

Original article here:
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com ... .html#more

The ending reminded me a lot of the close to the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy series.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:52 pm

Oh dear, guess I won't get any work done this afternoon!

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:02 pm

Went camping this weekend, saw the ep on Sunday, not much to say that hasn't been said already, except....Admiral Hoshii? After the short lived reign of Admiral Gaeta, the Colonial Fleet is officially the most gay-friendly military in the galaxy.

It's neck and neck with Babylon 5 for all time greatest sci fi show, IMO. B5 haters, I've already heard it.

I did think the NYC ending was a bit heavy handed. Don't create intelligent robots because they'll kill us. We get it, RDM.

It was nice to see Tory finally die for her sins, although she had to go and f*** up one more thing before she did.

So does the chief go off and start Ireland or something? He IS all Gaelic and a man of few words and he did say he was heading off to a cold Northern island.

What made me cry even more than seeing Roslin die was seeing her save Hera from Cavil's troops. She did it, man. She did it. Off to read the links.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:27 pm

The scene with the fleet sailing into the sun was also moving. No show has ever made me give a toss about a bunch of metal ships.

Poor Galactica. A fighter to the end

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:38 pm

I rewatched B5 not long ago, so the final ep of that is still fresh in my mind (first time I'd seen season 5) - BSG tops it by virtue of having lots and lots of explosions as well as all the lovely character moments.

Shanti418 wrote:So does the chief go off and start Ireland or something? He IS all Gaelic and a man of few words and he did say he was heading off to a cold Northern island.

It's the British isles he refers to, but he specifically mentions highlands - ergo, Scotland.

IMDB listed the guy who played Prosna (the deckhand who found the picture of Adama in the mini series) as being in the ep for a while. So maybe the extended cut will have some Tyrol flashbacks in it. I hope so. Hopefully a few minor scenes with Seelix and Kelly too.

Would have been nice to have seen Figursky, but RDM's commentary for Islanded said Don Thompson hadn't been available - he was meant to be the deckhand who the Six saves before getting flushed into space. Guessing he couldn't make the finale either.

Yay for Helo surviving.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:16 pm

What happened to Xena?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:03 pm

Hound wrote:What happened to Xena?

She stayed back on Earth. Old Earth that is.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:29 pm

Makes her, Dualla and Gaeta all the more tragic really.

Still, they weren't to know. Neither were we. Manipulative writer bastards!

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:16 am

B5 had explosions as well as awesome characterization as well as a very similar "It's all happened before, break the cycle" type theme, but that's a whole 'nother infinite thread. I think what BSG has over it is consistency and mood.

Given their experinces, I'm not sure Dee and Gaeta would have EVER been OK with hooking up a hybrid to CiC, Anders or not.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Caprica preview? I'm not so sure I'm in. It looks soap operaish, and the whole father/daughter dynamic seems to be quite predictable in where it's going.

One more question, and it's coming from a scientific curiosity place, not a continuity cop one. Is it even possible for organic life to reach the level of complexity that BSG Humans did WIHTOUT mitochondria? If I recall my high school biology correctly, mitochondria do all sorts of vital things, from ATP production to cell life cycles, etc. etc. To be sure, science points us towards the idea that humans and mitochondria were once NOT the same, and that we now exist in a symbiotic relationship, but those humans were probably more like the humans the BSGers encountered.

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:14 am

Shanti418 wrote:except....Admiral Hoshii?

Oh, come on. In the previous episode Hoshi was trying to wipe a stain from the console in CiC and failing to do so, and Tight said to him: "You won't make an admiral like that". It's funny.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:58 am

Shanti418 wrote:B5 had explosions

In the finale?

[EDIT] Station demolition aside.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:37 am

Brendocon wrote:Station demolition aside.

Spoilers, please. Some of us are waiting for the box set.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:49 am

I suck.

Although you find out the station eventually go boom in one of the first eps of season 1, so

to you anyway.

Is it coincidence that Starbuck disappeared at about the same time Roslin finally conked out?

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:13 am

FU scifi channel for changing your policy of when to air shows online.

I was at work for the finale and sound asleep for the reairing (at 5am)

ugh.. cant wait for saturday so they will post it on scifi. cant find it anywhere

Best show ever

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:17 am

Brendocon wrote:Is it coincidence that Starbuck disappeared at about the same time Roslin finally conked out?

Were they somehow linked in the prophecies of Pithica? (sp?) I seem to remember Kara being very involved in all that back in S2, but can't remember specifics.

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:40 am

finally got the episode. very impressed. Didnt care for how Starbuck just vanished though. Would have liked that a bit more fleshed out(like knowing wtf she was for instance). Other than that, knowing that Galen eventually translates into Gaelic is a nice touch (being Irish by heritage it makes me happy to know im related to the Chief hehe).

One question though: If they found the remains of a child (Hera) next to her parents, then how was she the future of the races? Or was she more of a figurehead of how things had to be in order to survive?