The jumbo "BSG season 4.5 thread" [Spoilers!]

[Brendocon]

I mean, Boomer couldn't have had real parents somewhere in the colonies, right?

Nah, fake memories and invented background. As far as anybody knew, Boomer's entire family died in a mining accident on Troy. Though oddly she had pictures of them in Downloaded and some elephants her mother gave her when she graduated.

Don't get it... You mean that few thousand years ago on Cobol there was a Cylon-Human war exactly like it happened 60 years ago on Colonies? Would be consistent with the whole "was before and will happen again".

It's plausible... we still don't really know what caused the original exodus.

All we need is for the 2/6/8 Basestar (or any part of the fleet) to go off in a different direction to the others... eventually the fleet finds a home, fact becomes legend, becomes myth, becomes religous mumbo jumbo, becomes "hey, these machines we're building - what if we could make them smarter and able to learn?". Then when the inevitable holocaust hits, the ancient texts tell that one ship went off and found a home elsewhere...

On another note, only thing that would have made the discovery of Cylon remains cooler would have been if the robotic model were a T-850. =-o

[Brendocon]

So as far as I can see, both Starbuck and Ellen have equal evidence pointing to them being Final Cylon material.

Maybe whatever allowed them to be resurrected is what allowed Kara to be?

Re: the webisodes, I'm 4 parts in. If Gaeta's homosexuality isn't referenced in the main series thats a cop out. They've no problem going big on the lesbo action after all.

We've not really had any lesbo "action" though, have we?

Only prior example of homosexuality I can think of is Cain and Gina. And Shaw only picked that up based on body language.

Oh, and there was a shot of both D'Anna and Caprica sleeping in the same bed as Baltar. Along with dialogue about "what they shared".

I think the knowledge that Gaeta [edited because you may not have gotten that far in the webisodes] and is currently with Hoshi will at the very least give a new subtext to CIC scenes.

IIUC, the webisodes were the last thing produced before the sets were torn down, and addressing his sexuality was something Jane Espenson only discussed with the producers and actor when they were being written, so I doubt it'll be fully addressed in the remaining episodes. Just one of those revelations that informs what we've seen before, like the Cain revelation in Razor. It doesn't really make any difference, but helps put certain things in context.

[spiderfrommars]

I like the Starbuck idea. Which would make her part of a new breed?

Re: Gaeta, guess I'm just airing a beef I have with a lot of US genre TV shows, where they have no worries about beautiful ladies getting it on, but pussyfoot around gay guys getting jiggy.

BSG's always had a no nonsense approach about most things, so I'm kinda surprised they addressed this one so late. Gaeta's sexuality's been the topic of fan debate for years.

[Brendocon]

I've always loved the fact that the first thing he asked when the Pegasus crew gave him a copy of their library was "got any porn?"

Felix kissing guys isn't the main reveal of Face of the Enemy either, as you'll see. It's just an incidental detail thrown in there, and you'll realise exactly how incidental too. Oh just watch it already and don't come back until you have!

[EDIT] On the equal evidence for Starbuck thing... Ron Moore always said the empty chair in the "last supper" promo pic represented the fifth. Which would mean they're not already in the image. There's some symmetry to the image (Roslin and Adama at opposite ends, Natalie at the opposite end to Athena and Helo) and the corresponding space at the other end of the image is Kara and Sam. The empty chair is between Lee and Saul... so I just guessed at it being the wife of one of 'em. Of Dee and Ellen, only one wasn't in the fleet.

That's how I really reasoned it as Mrs Tigh. Plus I thought it nice 'n poetic for Saul to have iced her and then find out the real real real truth about it all. And it is.

We reckon she's still out there or what then?

[Brendocon]

I like the Starbuck idea. Which would make her part of a new breed?

Just to go back to this, and stop me if I'm getting annoying but mind is racing with ideas and reaction and my gods this is like the best tv ever or something...

There's a recurrence of dozens, but ones that aren't.

We've got 12 colonies of humans. But there's a thirteenth, which actually turn out to be cylons.

We've got the 12 gods worshipped by humanity. But there's a thirteenth, the god worshipped by the cylons.

And then we've got 12 humanoid models of cylon, with the ability to resurrect. But then we've got Kara, who's human...

A downloadable human. Can all humans download then? If they tried? If they wanted to?

I don't know if we'll ever find out.

I'm just waiting for Tory to slip up and say "when Cally found out and I told her we didn't know what we were".

But obviously all these questions pale into insignificance alongside the issue of "what are next week's opening and credits sequences going to say?"

[saysadie]

I want to read this thread, but I can't.

Just wanted to alert the world[board] to my dilemma. Carry on.

[spiderfrommars]

The second episode wasn't the best. A case of "let's abandon the main, more interesting storyline with some smaller not so interesting ones." And with only 8 episodes left to go, shouldn't these all be packed with awesomeness?

That said, Roslin's motivations are nicely well rounded here, Tyrol's, not so much.

And I need me some Head Six action...

[Brendocon]

Ron Moore said that the episode was a deliberate "stop and catch our breath after the onslaught of revelations" type deal, before we hurtle headlong into the final run.

I always wondered if there was a larger point to that "Hot Dog's got a rash somewhere uncomfortable" scene with Helo. I guess he gets about a bit eh?

Enjoyed it, nice bit of character-centric stuff. Obviously gonna be an odd adjustment after the pure awesome of the last few eps. Nice to see Mrs Bamber get some screen time.

Something disconcerting about a nekkid and bald Roslin.

Not sure about the Face of the Enemy timeline now, either. Presumably it was between this week and last week's (meeting with the Admiral re one of Tyrol's ideas)... but the exchange with Hoshi made it look like he was off to see Zarek there and then.

Anybody else's episode have the traditional "intro" sequence? Or is this the first episode to be without? I'd been looking forward to seeing what they changed it to.

[Ozz]

A case of "let's abandon the main, more interesting storyline

But surely this IS the main storyline? The remains of human population looking for a new home and they are just at the beginning of the search's next phase. The problems with the alliance with Cylon rebels, a brewing of a conflict inside fleet because of that, it's the beginning of the last act of this story.

I really liked it. Loved how Adama fooled Zarek ("I appealed to his intelect." "Should I send the medic in?" ), interesting to see that he's having enough of it all and would like to leave it and spend some hassle-free time with Roslin. I like Tigh more and more, I think he's now better XO for Adama than ever before which is funny considering he's probably more hated than ever. Plus Tyrol having problems with pronouns, the word fight between Gaeta and Kara was great and I wonder if Baltar has some plan or he's genuinely disheartened with how the Earth thing turned out. Good stuff.

Anybody else's episode have the traditional "intro" sequence?

Mine didn't.

[Brendocon]

A case of "let's abandon the main, more interesting storyline

But surely this IS the main storyline?

Mmhm. "What the frak do we do now?" probably sums it up, which has been the driving force behind the narrative since the beginning, though up until now it had the answer of "find Earth." Now they have done and realise it solves nothing, it's about finding a new answer.

But first stopping to deal with the fact that the entire political situation has been built around Roslin being The Prophecised Leader. Now that's all fallen apart, we need to spend time looking at what happens there.

The biggest thing that probably could have been excised was the Tyrol/Nicky stuff... but I think that actually sets up something coming later, concerning a character who hasn't really been central for a while now.

[Shanti418]

Well, and that's what they're setting up. A division among the Colonial Fleet, just as there was with the Cylons, after the dissolution of the Adama/Roslin dictatorship that led humanity on a wild goose chase.

Not to mention between people like Lee, who want to keep a truce with the Cylons and use their technology, and Gaeda, who's lashing out and using the Cylons as a stand in for his own guilt and shame by being played a la the webisodes. People are pissed off and looking to fight.

And THAT'S when Cavil will show up.



What's the leading theory on Starbuck/Charbuck?

[spiderfrommars]

What's the leading theory on Starbuck/Charbuck?

Are we going for Cylon God?

[Brendocon]

Hope not.

Once you "reveal" God, you sort of confirm one theological side as being right. Removes some of the well-played ambiguity in the series.

All the humans having "prophetic" dreams and visions are either doped up or suffering from massive trauma. As much of the prophecies have been right along the way, we've just seen they're equally hokum.

Even Mr "I've seen your path, I know your destiny" Leoben has no ******* clue what's going on anymore.

I lay odds on there either being no God, or both the Olympiad and the One True are real... but that we'll never find out one way or the other. Personal interpretation and all that meister.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[spiderfrommars]

I lay odds on there either being no God

Aha, so BSG leads us through Monotheism and Polytheisim and we end up at Atheism.

Like all your other theories on this show Brend, tidy, symetrical and probably right.

[Brendocon]

Like all your other theories on this show Brend, tidy, symetrical and probably right.

I see the pattern of the here and the now; the truths that flow past you in the stream.

I've also rewatched the entire run from the mini through to 410 twice in the past six months. Lack of money and a burning desire to understand will do that to you. The thematics are seared into my brain.

Seriously, this show finishing will do wonders for my general sanity.

[Brendocon]

T
H
E

O
A
T
H

Gods I love continuity. The return of Gage! And Connor again! Narcho and Redwing! The bitter encore to the underplayed and wasted "Seelix loves Sam" angle! Gaeta finally mentioning the whole networking issue!

What with Gage, Narcho and Redwing, if it wasn't for Laird I'd swear the entire Pegasus survivors were in on it. Poor Laird.

Plus guns, guns and more guns.

Kara shooting Skulls = win. Skulls is a prick. Vengeful triggerhappy maybe-zombie Kara = bundles of win.

NEXT ONE NOW PLZ.

[Ozz]

Well... It. Is. On.

I hope nothing nasty will happen to Athena.

Picture from next episode - mild spoilers - is that who I think it is? If so - cool!

Slightly more spoilerific pic from the next ep - that probably won't end well.

[Brendocon]

Picture from next episode - mild spoilers - is that who I think it is? If so - cool!

I'm not quite sure who that is... it looks like it might be Helfer, but if it is they've done something wacky to her. There is another obvious suspect, but I'm not too sure on the logistics of that right now. :/

Odds on somebody with a Z in their name not making it out of the next episode alive?

Just need to say that I love the motivations for the mutiny. Zarek just making a blatant powerplay, Gaeta being genuinely right about how Adama's behaviour is uncharacteristic, unlawful and dangerous... but also all the tiny little grudges that are driving everybody else - and the scores they're looking to settle. Connor blaming Lee for Baltar going free, the Sunshine Boys looking to [composite word including 'f*ck'] up Helo, Seelix after Sam not because he's a Cylon but because he snubbed her for Tory.

's what I love about this program - it always boils back down to the characters.

[Ozz]

I'm not quite sure who that is... it looks like it might be Helfer, but if it is they've done something wacky to her. There is another obvious suspect, but I'm not too sure on the logistics of that right now. :/

That is Tricia Helfer with her natural hair color (more or less). I was thinking Natalie.

[Brendocon]

It's possible. She was shot pre-The Hub... and "the Six who went among the makers is no longer. End of line. Back in the stream that feeds the ocean that feeds the stream" does carry an inference...

But then the rebels were sans resurrection ships... so who knows. Guess we'll find out soon enough!

[Ozz]

I saw it again and it's full of win. Like when Tigh's jaw hit the floor after seeing Roslin's in Adama's quarters. Or when Connor asks Lee where are his precious Cylons now and bam! Starbuck to the rescue. Foreshadowing?

Kara's "Follow me. Please." was cool, too, but after came the only serious annoyance I had with this episode, because following that line she did some posturing and tried to shoot running armless guy and that was it. Hopefully she, Apollo and Tyrol will kick some butt in next ep.

And then you have somebody like Gage, who seems to be nothing more than a big arse and there's this little moment when he looks genuinely troubled with all the shooting and screaming and killing that's going on. It makes you wonder for a moment. But only for a moment. I still hope that when he tries to get to Sharon, he'll try to show how much of a man he is and won't cuff her and she'll snap his neck or something. She has some superhuman strength, right?

Baltar cracks me up. "Is it really impreative that I leave?" Yeah, dude, like I'm gonna believe that you want to stay.

Odds on somebody with a Z in their name not making it out of the next episode alive?

I believe that Zarek will be dead by the end of the series, but not necessary in the next ep. On the other hand, he might want to make a move against Gaeta sooner than later and he's not the one I would bet money on in that conflict.

Seriously, right now BSG might be the thing I wait for most every week. That and Srcubs. Which is something I thought I would never say again.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

that was good ****! frak I fancy kara

[Brendocon]

"It stopped."



Brigrat Kelly FTW!

Even Narcho was good, and he's a ****.

Really loyal marines you picked there, Noel.

I guess the Quorum stuff explained whether Zarek actually had a plan beyond "take power"... really didn'y see that coming.

And yay for more Romo.

Baltar with the prophetic dreams now?

[Ozz]

I actually was a bit disappointed that the whole coup was over already. It didn't even last ten hours.

I guess the Quorum stuff explained whether Zarek actually had a plan beyond "take power"... really didn'y see that coming.

Saw that and remembered how he was bitching about Adama tolerating the Quorum and whole democracy only because of Roslin. Well, now we know what democracy according to Zarek looks like.

Romo's awesome. "My pen pal". Heh. What was that earlier line? "I'm not a very good shooter"?

Kelly and Narcho were suprisingly good indeed. Other rebels didn't get stuff to do, though. Except Gage looking really helpless couple of times.

Roslin ruled too, but there were moments when I thought she sounded silly with all the yelling.

I wonder how significant is that Caprica Six was taking care of Hera most of the time.

The Six Baltar slept with is apparently named Lida and if she has a name and distinctive features, that probably means she's someone to watch for.

If the description I stumbled upon is correct, next episode should please those who want some big revelations.

[spiderfrommars]

Thought the latest 2 episodes were mostly terrific. They included a lot of the best characters kicking a lot of ass, which was fun. Though I find it hard to believe that anyone would ever follow that whiner Gaeta.

[Ozz]

Though I find it hard to believe that anyone would ever follow that whiner Gaeta.

I think Narcho neatly described the reasoning behind that saying that he respects Adama, but wants his commander to lead him against the Cylons, not into the alliance with them. Most of the others probably felt the same way.

[Brendocon]

Though I find it hard to believe that anyone would ever follow that whiner Gaeta.

Because he was right, maybe?

We've been on the run from a murderous, bloodthirsty enemy for years. Suddenly a group of them show up on our doorstep, claiming philosophical differences... the next thing anybody knows, we're in alliance with them and they're going to be installing their own hardware in all our ships regardless of the fact that the democratically elected government have given us right of veto?

Plus, of course, the XO and President's Aide are/were Cylons and nobody seems to care.

He tried to go through the right channels. Raised his objections (albeit in a bitter manner, but still) in the right places at the right times... and just got shot down.

And considering he felt like this having been in the loop on most of the decisions, you can only imagine how the pilots and deckhands and marines who hadn't had it explained felt about matters. Adama was making wildly desperate and out-of-character decisions that effected everybody, regardless of the law and without any attempt at an explanation.

The viewers saw the reasons, know the truth about the rebels... The same isn't true for Racetrack and Kelly. Suddenly Felix is standing up and saying "look, he's lost the plot, is endangering us all and refusing to even countenance the idea that it's wrong".

And that's even before you get into the whole "we followed him because he said he'd take us to Earth" issue.

Personally, I can see entirely why people would rally behind him. "Everybody likes Felix, he's such a good guy" or whatever it was Tigh said when they were debating his case in Collaborators.

Ending was a bit abrupt, though, felt like we skipped over some stuff to get straight to the execution. Though full marks to Gaeta for knowing what was going to happen when still in CIC, and accepting it. Calmly accepting his fate and staring down death in an airlock tube for the second time in the series. Balls. Of. Steel.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

bsg just, well, um, leaves me speechless somedays. it's so fracking good!
best sci-fi ever!!!

[Shanti418]

Well, THAT episode sure blew my mind. There are a lot of cats out of the bag. Still not sure how the Galactica fits into it, or where/what the Lords of Kobol came from/are, or how the Final Five were originally created. And what's up with this whole Daniel fellow? And of course, Starbuck.

[spiderfrommars]

Yeah, typical - been waiting four years for answers and the exposition comes flying out faster than I can follow in this one. But a really terrific episode, with some exceptional acting from Dean Stockwell and Kate Vernon in particular.

Only 4 more to go! That crept up on us fast...