Indiana Jones IV (spoilers)

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Thu May 22, 2008 10:44 pm

So this was fun, if predictable. Let's just say its my 4th favourite Indiana Jones film.

(spoilers below)

Loved the ride for the first two thirds of the film. Admired Spielberg's restraint, as it was filmed in quite an old fashioned way. The humour is well judged and the film's full of wonderful set pieces.

Harrison Ford is still my hero and his obvious fitness in this film is amazing.

Shia, as expected, is funny and engaging. Cate is a great bad guy. Winstone is a little annoying, while Hurt and Broadbent seemed badly wasted.

Bringing Marion back didn't seem neccesary to me. Meant we had an over heavy cast by the end and the principals weren't really afforded any deep characterisation.

Seemed a shame that Henry Jones Sr was dead - even without Connery's input in the film it feeled a downer to kill him off.

Nowhere near as gory as the previous films. Go on... push the boundaries!

By time the monkeys and the Tarzan-swinging comes along, it goes downhill. The last thing I expected was this film to turn into a CGI fest, but thats what happens. It ends up feeling overlong and the actual secret of the skulls isn't exactly original nor the fate of Blanchett's character(though the production design on the final chamber with the 13 is fantastic).

I can't see alien artefacts being a popular choice for an Indy macguffin, but it fit the 50s setting.

John Williams' score seemed lacking.

Did we really need a wedding at the end? Loved the bit with the hat though.

In the end, better than all the Star Wars prequels put together (the cast are miles better for a start) but that needn't justify its existence. The Last Crusade seemed a natural conclusion to Indy's adventures. They did ride into the sunset after all.

7/10 (would be 6/10 but it gets an extra mark for being, well, an Indiana Jones movie).

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri May 23, 2008 6:16 pm

That's all well and good, but there's only one question pressing on my mind.

As Pat Roach is dead, did he have a worthy successor in this film?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Fri May 23, 2008 7:02 pm

There was a Pat Roach-esque Russian henchman I guess. He met a nasty end he did.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Sat May 24, 2008 10:52 am

spiderfrommars wrote:while Hurt and Broadbent seemed badly wasted.

Mhm. Alan Dale's cameo seemed to be nothing more than "hey, it's Alan Dale!"

Also, I know Neil Flynn is an established film actor, and it was nice to see him reunited with Ford after The Fugitive... but I'm incapable of taking him seriously since Scrubs. All I see is FBI Agent Jan Itor.

Bringing Marion back didn't seem neccesary to me. Meant we had an over heavy cast by the end and the principals weren't really afforded any deep characterisation.

Clogged things up a bit, didn't it? Slowed the momentum because it was like "right, hang on a minute whilst we round up all the characters rather than pressing on urgently." You've got Indy, you've got the kid who's going to be doing most of the stunts because Ford's a bit old, you've got the crazy old man who's the key... then we've got the traitor... but wait a second because the love interest is in a different car.

By time the monkeys and the Tarzan-swinging comes along, it goes downhill.

Was unnecessary, wasn't it?

I can't see alien artefacts being a popular choice for an Indy macguffin, but it fit the 50s setting.

I know I didn't like it. To be honest, the supernatural side has always seemed a little out of place in the previous films (just my opinion, I know), but I accept that it's a central conceit. Everything's all normal and down to Earth, the legends are just legends, and then at the end we get the magical Nazi melting ghosts and cups etc. But aliens just seemed to be pushing it a little too far... especially as it was established pretty much right away that, yes, we're dealing with aliens. It felt more like an episode of the X-Files, especially with the vague "okay, what actually just happened?" finale.

Did we really need a wedding at the end?

No. Not at all.

In the end, better than all the Star Wars prequels put together (the cast are miles better for a start) but that needn't justify its existence. The Last Crusade seemed a natural conclusion to Indy's adventures. They did ride into the sunset after all.

Agreed.

Not to say I didn't enjoy it. It was immense fun, but the psychics and the alien corpses sort of pulled me out of the moment. I don't mind the secret of the Mysterious City of Gold being aliens, but when it's telegraphed right from the beginning, it kinda loses something. There's no big reveal, no mystery, no "what are we ACTUALLY looking for here?", it just sort of... rolls along.

Wasn't convinced they got the Indy/Mutt (do like that HJ3 took his name from a dog too) screentime balance right. Understand the need for it, but I think Die Hard 4 got the balance a bit better.

Great soundtrack. And loved the Paramount thing at the beginning. Even if the prairie dogs doing a double take later on just made me think of Moonraker.

Two questions I've got, though. How did Indy get his job back at the school? And didn't Marion say the reason Ox stopped talking to Indy was because he knew about Mutt? So why the surprise later on? But then, it is a Lucas script.

Shia's going to be a massive star one day, isn't he?

3stars. Not rubbish. Enjoyable. Lots of fun. Worth seeing. But not as good as it perhaps was meant to be.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sat May 24, 2008 11:01 am

I found it, ok, it just didnt really click for me. Ford just seems to old for me, and for some reason, i think he looks out of place, I cant quite put my finger onit but I kept thinking, this film is just to late in his life...

Shia was good.

The plot, now, i took my niece with me to see the film, shes 12, and loves Indy but even she thought the plot was out of place, all this alien bollox didnt wash with me or her, and I didnt even have to say anything.

The first part of the film was good, it was moving nicely, I still felt when the indy music kicked in most time its seemed, well, a bit forced, again, I cant put my finger onit but somthings wrong?

I just watched all 3 indy movies, theres somthing solid about them like the original SW films, somthing real about them, and this new Indy sufers the same problems.

In theory, the actors are all good, the special effects should blow away the past yet for some reason, it all feels fake and strapped together. Ford felt very cliche to me, oh yes, your old, and Indy, use that whip, i was even waiting for him to shoot a man in a sword fight at one point, but I had to wake my GF up...

The plot was lumpy, FBI agents, KGB, CIA, double cross/triple cross, marriage, mad man, not mad man, aliens, but not real ones, just interdimensional beings .... by the end of it, whilst i do keep up, i just thought, this is raiders of the lost ark, this is x-files meets indy on the set of a new star wars film, with naff music.

so, its ok, average at best, and unfortuantly, I dont think ill ever watch it again unless nothing else is on, where raiders and last crusade, I still enjoy today.

Tarzan and waterfall moments just went one step to far...

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Sat May 24, 2008 3:43 pm

Just got back, I enjoyed it, but can only really echo what everyone else has said in this thread, especially the X-Files overtones...ironic really since X-Files completely stole the ending to its first episode from Raiders. It was good fun, but lots of it just felt forced - the two skull-masked assassins at the graveyard were, um who and why? Would have been better to keep the aliens as a surprise at the end too, as soon as she said "ten years ago", I was like, "Hmmm, '47...so Roswell then" but they didn't need to show us the aliens every half hour to keep reminding us. I liked Indy and Marion's relationship and it did work for me, but agree the wedding was probably a step too far.

Wonder if they'll do another now?

The Last Autobot · Post by **The Last Autobot** » Sat May 24, 2008 9:12 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Wonder if they'll do another now?

With Shia as the main actor apparently...

http://www.slashfilm.com/2007/07/16/rum ... of-aliens/

http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/05/16/luc ... le-it-out/

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat May 24, 2008 9:16 pm

It'll be like young Indiana Jones, but with the main character being Indy's son, instead of a young Indy.

And set in the 50's instead of the 10's.

And star the actor the part was intended for, instead of some other actor.

And might even be memorable...

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Sun May 25, 2008 5:33 am

Can't help feeling pangs of jealousy over young Shia's career.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sun May 25, 2008 2:23 pm

My niece was telling me that Shia wa some actor on kids TV over here in the UK? - nice leap in fortune.

I think Shia is pretty ace, he holds his own on screen very well, carried TF:M for me, and against Ford seemed perfectly at ease, he is deff going to be a star, he has that charisma thats hard to dislike.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Sun May 25, 2008 2:25 pm

That's not the point.

I like him.

I just can't help feeling jealous that he gets to be Spike Witwicky *and* Indy Junior...what next, the personification of Lego?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Sun May 25, 2008 2:38 pm

Plus he's bitchslapped demons with John Constantine. Okay, maybe not the proper John Constantine, but still.

******'ll probably end up being an actually cool Robin in Chris Nolan's Batman.

Metal Vendetta wrote:Would have been better to keep the aliens as a surprise at the end too, as soon as she said "ten years ago", I was like, "Hmmm, '47...so Roswell then" but they didn't need to show us the aliens every half hour to keep reminding us.

It was the Hanger 51 in Nevada that gave it away for me.

I rolled my eyes and thought "Oh please don't be. Please actually be after the Ark of the Covenant." Then I started hoping it would just be a silly little opening diversion that has nothing to do with the plot (like the beginning of Raiders) and is just to introduce the characters. Then it could have been "great, shame about the silly stuff with the Roswell alien at the beginning." Meh.

Possibly didn't help that I'd watched Futurama's Roswell episode a couple of days beforehand. Zoidberg > All.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sun May 25, 2008 3:43 pm

the min they were in that hanger and they mentioned roswell, i knew the plot was going to be iffy as [composite word including 'f*ck']...

I know who Shia will be next, Ulyssees, in U31... (I wish)

that or someone cool from Warhammer 40k, the 8 film spectacular!

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Sun May 25, 2008 4:57 pm

Been reading the WH40000 comics - or at least I picked up the tbh of Blood and Thunder the other day...bloody great stuff, lovely art, shame they can't tell a sympathetic story from the Orks' point of view. Absolutely gutted with the end.

But yeah, Shia will probably play the leader of the Blood Angels. Damn him and his telegenic face.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Sun May 25, 2008 5:08 pm

Oh yeah. And I just remembered this:

http://www.empireonline.com/News/story.asp?nid=20885

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Sun May 25, 2008 8:45 pm

At the moment he's on a par with Hugo Weaving, who's played V and Megatron, pretty much my favourite two comic characters ever. Bah.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Sun May 25, 2008 10:40 pm

Right on! Shia would be a perfect Yorick.

Now if only the Ellsworth writing it were Mr. Spencer Ellsworth of Bellingham Washington... we'd be golden.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:33 am

Metal Vendetta wrote:Been reading the WH40000 comics - or at least I picked up the tbh of Blood and Thunder the other day...bloody great stuff, lovely art, shame they can't tell a sympathetic story from the Orks' point of view. Absolutely gutted with the end.

But yeah, Shia will probably play the leader of the Blood Angels. Damn him and his telegenic face.

have you read the horus heresy?

cant bang this home to general sci-fi fans enough - ok, its on book 7 now and increasing but its pretty darn ace, and is wonderfull n a way that only W40k can be, dark, twisted, a time of heros...

Add to that everything else from the black libary, I belive theres some Ork books in there too.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/default.asp

Ill be honest, I havent read the comics much, im stuck in the novels, and time is fleeting but from what i have seen, most of it is pretty ace.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue May 27, 2008 5:26 pm

Revealed!
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/film/2008/0 ... na_jo.html

Also, I did like this...
http://www.collectedcurios.com/Indy_Jones_4_Script.jpg

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue May 27, 2008 5:35 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:Revealed!
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/film/2008/0 ... na_jo.html

Sublime.

Ozz · Post by **Ozz** » Wed May 28, 2008 8:06 am

Brendocon wrote:Also, I know Neil Flynn is an established film actor, and it was nice to see him reunited with Ford after The Fugitive... but I'm incapable of taking him seriously since Scrubs. All I see is FBI Agent Jan Itor.

I still hasn't seen the movie, but:

http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20080528.html

I had tears in my eyes.

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Sat May 31, 2008 11:39 pm

LOVED the movie!

BEST Spielberg, Lucas and Ford-movie in many a year.

Everything felt right, even the way the science-fiction element was weaved into the story. ( of course, I'm used to a little bit of sci-fi in Indy from Fate of Atlantis, the original proposal for Indy4)

I was generally entertained and thrilled. Couldn't really ask for anything more.

I started warming up 2 months ago by re-reading Dark Horse's Fate of Atlantis, and a few days ago I started playing Williams Indiana Jones the Pinball Adventure.

I had only played it once before, and tonight, just before the movie, I scored top of the highscore-list. Next time I'll be Grandmaster.

I really don't get the people that slag on this movie, because it was ace, it had that missing element that so many of the other movies these gents have made this decade, have lacked.

It had 'it'.

And this was also my first time seeing Indy in a movie-theater, I'm too young to ever have had the chance to see Indy in the cinemas.

It was a great feeling, with a packed theater, a decent seat on 6th row, an actual bottle of ice-water ( well, there use to be ice..warm out and inside) and this was like almost two weeks since the premiere and on the late viewing!

Great fun. Great movie.

I was always a fan, since seeing the first movie on TV as a kid ( it was Temple of Doom actually, so I'll always have a soft spot for that one) but I truly cemented my fan-hood 5-6 years ago, when I was lying in hospital with shattered bones from getting hit by a car. I saw the whole trilogy in a matter of days.

Like I said, I never thought I'd get this chance, or that it would be an enjoyable film. ( until I saw the first promo-shots of Ford in-character, natch.)

I'm actually rather curious to hear what Hot Shot thought of the movie, since he can't possibly have the same relation to the movies like the rest of us.

Oh.. and Spiderfrommars is a bitter old fart.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:31 am

Everyone must be a bitter old fart...

I watched the movie for the 2nd time the other day, it seemed worse than the first time! - im yet to meet anyone who thinks its better than average.

The Last Autobot · Post by **The Last Autobot** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:08 pm

Surprised that Pancho Villa taught Indy Quechua considering he was mexican.

Or that Nazca is in Cusco (the same region in which Machu Picchu is, that in reality are very far away).

Or that Chichen Itza is here... *when its in Mexico.

Or the music, which are more "rancheras" than anything else ( again being mexican songs)

What im not surprised is that for the US, Latin America is just like a big indiscriminated country with colombian, mexican, peruvian, venezuelan features. Everything south of them is just the same.

And if I get subliminal I would even say that they think that nothing we have ever do is product of ourselves but interference of the aliens...

TransFans.co.uk

Indiana Jones IV (spoilers)

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