Scientology and me

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Best First
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Post by Best First » Thu May 17, 2007 10:03 pm

***foolishly gets drawnin***

Yaya wrote: If God exists, that is, an entity that has created everything, and is aware of even the tiniest particle in space across the galaxy, what hope do human beings have of understanding the workings and 'logic' of such a Power?
as much as that being, in the parameters you are defining them, would let us.

So, if they are not letting us, or allowing the 'truth' to only be intelligable to a bunch of people then you have to question there agenda, don't you?

There's no obvious reason to equate a creator or supreme power with benevolance either, a farmer will tend and feed a lamb but it doesn't mean he has the lamb's best interested at heart long term.
Part of faith is the acceptance that in the vast reaches of the universe, as fallible, ignorant beings in the grand scheme of things, we play a very small part.
In all honesty i find that hard to take from someone who subscribes to a religion that thinks its intolerable and of great signficance if a fallible ignorant being does a drawing of some chap called Mohammed.

Most monthiestic creeds aren't even remotely about downplaying the importance of humanity, even if they suggest it should be in some way subservient to a creator, they are still insistant that it in some way matters to that creator what humanity does.

And of course if it does matter to 'god' what humanity does, you once again come back to the notion that if this is so why is his message so unclear?

"Oh, but its not because i think i know it" - which of course brings us back to self importance.

In terms of debate faith is a cheap arguementative cop out, nothing more, regardless of whether you are a 'wise philosopher' or anyone else.
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Post by Professor Smooth » Thu May 17, 2007 10:16 pm

Well said. I'll admit that after the "human logic" sentence I just wanted to throw my computer out the window.
snarl wrote:Just... really... what the **** have [IDW] been taking for the last 2 years?
Brendocon wrote:Yaya's money.

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Post by Guest » Thu May 17, 2007 10:24 pm

Greed and Xenophobia are the roots of all conflict, both in humans and other life on Earth.

The only major difference being that we have this thing called higher brain functions that allow us to do things like remember our pasts and imagine our futures.

This then leads on to developing plans of action, and from there we get alliances, pooling of resources and all sorts of more efficient ways of being greedy and xenophobic.

Imagine a society where a small group of individuals manipulated a much larger group by playing to their various hopes and fears.

Hmm...

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Post by Yaya » Fri May 18, 2007 2:23 am

Best First wrote:
Yaya wrote: If God exists, that is, an entity that has created everything, and is aware of even the tiniest particle in space across the galaxy, what hope do human beings have of understanding the workings and 'logic' of such a Power?
as much as that being, in the parameters you are defining them, would let us.
Yes. We understand about our Creator only what He would allow.
So, if they are not letting us, or allowing the 'truth' to only be intelligable to a bunch of people then you have to question there agenda, don't you?
Small special groups are not the sole ones privy to truth.

In Islam, unlike in Christianity, everyone's soul before birth is fashioned on the same what is called "fitra", or state of belief in the Creator and propensity to do good as God has defined "good". As we grow and develop awareness of our surroundings, these very surroundings influence us. Our parents influence us. And so those who do not believe in God only do so because their life experiences have altered their true nature on which all souls are created. This is why Christians and Jews, for example, are often referred to as "kufr", which means 'those who are covered'. In other words, their capacity to believe in the truth is there, only that it has been covered by the persuasion of falsehoods.

In other words, in Islam, every human being has the capacity for belief, and every soul before our entering this world had already bore witness to His existence. For example, as a Muslim I believe that Best First, though he may not believe in souls or God, has a soul, and before his arrival here on Earth, and before mine, he bore witness as did all of us to God's existence and his magnficence. My belief.

Also, though God is aware of everything, what separates mankind from the rest of creation (save the race known as Jinn, who are of another realm from man altogether) is that we have been given the capacity to choose. We make choices in what we want to believe and in what we do. God knows what our choice will be, but He allows us to have a will of our own.

Why us? Ask God.
Particularly when it comes to writing holy books and passing them off as the will of that god.
Assuming you believe said current holy books have been authored by mankind. And I believe all have, save one.
Greed and Xenophobia are the roots of all conflict, both in humans and other life on Earth.
Money and power are responsible for most conflict. Greed and xenophobia are the result of the desire for wealth and power.
"But the Costa story featuring Starscream? Fantastic! This guy is "The One", I just know it, just from these few pages. "--Yaya, who is never wrong.

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Post by Professor Smooth » Fri May 18, 2007 4:25 am

Discussing religion is a lot like beating my head against a brick wall. How long do I do this before I'm an idiot for continuing?

Can Allah microwave a burrito so hot that he, himself, can not eat it?

Serious question.
snarl wrote:Just... really... what the **** have [IDW] been taking for the last 2 years?
Brendocon wrote:Yaya's money.

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Post by The Last Autobot » Fri May 18, 2007 7:37 am

Professor Smooth wrote: Can Allah microwave a burrito so hot that he, himself, can not eat it?

Serious question.
Allaw doesnt eat burritos. Burritos are for infidels!
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Post by Legion » Fri May 18, 2007 12:18 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:so would it be better to just live without the force, and then u remove the good, but at least u dont have the bad aswell...

jedis are great but **** me if the Sith didnt mess up the universe. catch my drift?
exactly! and that's what Kreia was up to in Kotor 2 ;)

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Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Fri May 18, 2007 12:57 pm

Im trying to understand this falible concept.

Let me get this straight, because humans make mistakes, there must be a god? in basic terms?
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Post by sprunkner » Fri May 18, 2007 12:58 pm

The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote: Can Allah microwave a burrito so hot that he, himself, can not eat it?

Serious question.
Allah doesnt eat burritos. Burritos are for infidels!
It's a halal burrito.

(Does Allah have to eat halal?)
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Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Fri May 18, 2007 1:04 pm

What I love about religion is that all of them make **** loads of cash from people fearing hell/damnation/insert horrible afterdeath thing here. its so brillantly stupid.
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Post by Legion » Fri May 18, 2007 3:18 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:Im trying to understand this falible concept.

Let me get this straight, because humans make mistakes, there must be a god? in basic terms?
no, you are mistaken ;)

whilst we're on the subject (sort of), i just saw this :
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/05/18 ... kerfuffle/

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Post by Denyer » Sat May 19, 2007 1:30 pm

Yaya wrote:Assuming you believe said current holy books have been authored by mankind. And I believe all have, save one.
Why that one?

How come the other 80% of people (or whatever statistic) picked incorrect books -- and doesn't that suggest God's a bit of a bastard if it turns out to actually matter?

(Also, why do people pick a book that was revised by a bunch of people in 397 to remove stuff they thought was too fanciful to make stick?)

Ignoring the white elephant in the room: finding any evidence to suggest any book hasn't been authored by mankind beyond "because this guy said so, and told his kids, who told their kids, who told theirs, and by this time Great-Grandad wasn't around to pump for information or admit he made it up..."

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Post by Hound » Sat May 19, 2007 1:51 pm

God is real. I have proof

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Post by Denyer » Sat May 19, 2007 5:24 pm

Still like her, although the first album that was released in this country's still my fave...

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