Angel question

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:52 pm

Well, a Sahjhan question, to be specific.

I'm watching series 3 for about the zillionth time, but I can't remember for the life of me how Sahjhan is able to (in the episode I'm watching) throw a coat to Holtz, and knock on a door, despite being incorporeal?

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:57 pm

see.

i saw the title of this.

and i thought, i bet ill know the answer to this.

but i don't.

So my new strategy is betting Brend knows the answer to this.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:04 pm

The same way he's able to throw the magic "bring him to life" dust over the statue of Holtz in the preceding episode.

Uhm... I don't know.

Same way he doesn't just fall through the floor and drop off the planet at the other side?

He can touch things but not people?

Ask Tim Minear! And whilst you're at it, ask him why the comedy episodes in season five of The X-Files were about as funny as rape...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:29 pm

He was a mean mofo and not even being turned immaterial was gonna stop him cracking a few heads?

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:34 pm

Brendocon wrote: He can touch things but not people?

I considered that too, but then I thought he would have just picked up a crossbow or stake, and finished Angel off himself rather than concocting a plan that involved bringing a gravelly voiced pensioner two hundred years into the future.

Actually, I've been watching a lot of Buffy/Angel reruns as of late, and I have reached two conclusions:

1. Xander is actually quite annoying.

2. Angelus is about as scary as Palpatine-as in, he's panto camp. Angel, when he's in a bad mood (like when he fires the rest of Angel investigations, or tries to kill Wes) is scary. Angelus? I'd 'ave 'im.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:40 pm

i disgaree on both counts.

For me Xasnder is the window into the group - he's the one you could be, because he's not really special, but mostly well intentioned.

Secondly when Angelus first turned up the dramatic change was what convinced me Beanbag could actually act, Angelus isn't camp in the same way as Palpy, he just revels in it - plus i think the Angelus aspect informed as lot of the later darker Angel.

the way he revelled in killing, especially of lovely, lovely Jenny Calender was ace.

all IMO obviously.

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:51 pm

Don't get me wrong-I like Xander, he's just started to grate on me in places-conversely, I've found myself sympathising with Buffy where I'd normally find her irritating.

Ok, so Angelus isn't Palpy bad, but I still think that he's more...convincingly scary when he's making Angelus style decisions while he's still Angel-when he changes from being dedicated saviour of mankind to a complete ruthless bugger (again, the whole 'eat pillow, Pryce' thing).

As you said though-just my opinion.

Giles ran that show though-no diggity, no doubt.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:21 pm

Pissin' Poonani wrote:
Brendocon wrote: He can touch things but not people?

I considered that too, but then I thought he would have just picked up a crossbow or stake, and finished Angel off himself rather than concocting a plan that involved bringing a gravelly voiced pensioner two hundred years into the future.

Didn't the flashback thingy of how they made him immaterial include him swinging a weapon at somebody, and it went through them?

It's possible that, whilst he's holding it, it's also intangible. He could always throw, I guess.

Besides, it wasn't Angel he wanted dead... Well, it was up until Darla got pregnant, after that it was a bit late...

1. Xander is actually quite annoying.

Xander can definitely be a bit of a prick, in my view. He gets thoroughly self-righteous in several places... though not as bad as Buffy (the bit that always pissed me off was in Revelations... "no, I wasn't spying on you - I was spying on the guy you were smooching who you told us was dead!" would be the obvious retort, yet he never thinks of it)

I found there were two things that generally provoked his unjustified venom - people sniffing around his people; and vampires. Spike and Angel were unlucky enough to fall into both categories...

2. Angelus is about as scary as Palpatine-as in, he's panto camp. Angel, when he's in a bad mood (like when he fires the rest of Angel investigations, or tries to kill Wes) is scary. Angelus? I'd 'ave 'im.

Part of the fun of Angelus is that he's utterly OTT evil. He's a cheerful, creative chap who knows he's effectively indestructable and is embracing it. Angel spends all his time being miserable and broody and perfecting that "keep away from me" look. Angelus is allowed to smile.

Of course the fact that Boreanaz is a big fat ham kinda has something to do with it.

I've been slowly working my way through both Buffy and Angel of late. I overdosed on it all a couple of years back... in November I decided to sit down and watch it all in order (mixing B and A) for the first time, with some distance after the last time I'd seen it. Of course other people and stuff got in the way, so I've been having about a month between seasons, which is actually really good from a perspective viewpoint.

Seasons 6 and 3 are next up. Probably over this weekend...

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:45 am

2. Angelus is about as scary as Palpatine-as in, he's panto camp. Angel, when he's in a bad mood (like when he fires the rest of Angel investigations, or tries to kill Wes) is scary. Angelus? I'd 'ave 'im.
Part of the fun of Angelus is that he's utterly OTT evil. He's a cheerful, creative chap who knows he's effectively indestructable and is embracing it. Angel spends all his time being miserable and broody and perfecting that "keep away from me" look. Angelus is allowed to smile.

Of course the fact that Boreanaz is a big fat ham kinda has something to do with it.

I understand why Angelus is the way he is, it's just I've never (from what I can recall) found myself being scared of him and what he can do-I personally feel that despite all the horrific things he'd done, we never really got a sense of how evil he was-for me personally, one decent showing of how utterly reprehensible he is would have made his cackly villain routine that much more...I want to say 'justified', but I'm having trouble getting out what I want to get across.

I know he's done some truly evil things (both onscreen and off), but for me personally, they never really had much of an impact-he doesn't really stand out as being that much different from any other vampire, except for his infamy and longevity. I suppose what also (again, for me) made him less scary was that he was only ever a temporary threat. I don't know what Joss would have done had the show not been dropped, but I never got the feeling that Angelus would replace Angel permanently-that in itself limited his scope for damage, and kind of neutered him in my eyes.

Just so we're clear (because I know that text isn't always the best medium for conveying the emotion behind a post) I'm not saying "I'm right, you're wrong"-this is all just my own opinion.

One thing I have to disagree with is your comment about Boreanaz being a 'ham'-not to get all over the top analytical, but the range of emotion conveyed in this scene is very powerful-I was left agreeing whole heartedly with his final, heartbreaking statement.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:02 am

I'm working through Buffy at the moment. At what point should I start on Angel? (or if you tell me will that potentially spoil a storyline in Buffy?)

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:48 am

Angel started at the same time as season 4 of Buffy.

Pissin' Poonani wrote: I personally feel that despite all the horrific things he'd done, we never really got a sense of how evil he was-for me personally, one decent showing of how utterly reprehensible he is would have made his cackly villain routine that much more...I want to say 'justified', but I'm having trouble getting out what I want to get across.

I follow you.

Angelus never really made the "big evil gesture" that would have given him that air of menace. Killing Jenny was probably intended in that light, but that act was more out of necessity than shits and giggles. If he'd killed Oz in Innocence it would probably have had the desired impact. A bit like when Caleb kicks the **** out of everybody and thumbs out Xander's eye. Big scary. Mission accomplished.

Angelus was always more of a big schemer. Sit back and plan... artistic, like. Spike was the aggressive "go out fighting" one. The flashbacks in Fool For Love really demonstrate that a bit better.

What did Angelus really do before his curse? Killed his parents... took the piss out of The Master... killed Holtz's family... drove Dru crazy... got slapped around by The Immortal... as for the stuff with the gypsy girl, well, Darla was probably just as guilty, if not more so.

There's no point here... just random concurring.

I like the character, but I can't really disagree with any points about him not really being that proactively evil. Orpheus is probably my favourite bit of Angelusness... But letting The Beast take out Faith for him a couple of episodes beforehand probably illustrates his mentality best.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:51 am

spiderfrommars wrote:I'm working through Buffy at the moment. At what point should I start on Angel? (or if you tell me will that potentially spoil a storyline in Buffy?)

When you get there, you'll know when it's time to start watching Angel, don't worry.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:05 pm

i just manged to find an mp3 of the sarah maclaclan trcak from the end of the last ep of season 2.

i know, as a man, i shouldn't like this - but damnit coupled with the events at the end of season 2 its bloody brilliant.

i need to start my own rewatching.

i'f i'm having a bad day i'll often just slap on a random classic and it cheers me up no end. that or the last ep of Spaced.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:06 pm

Best First wrote:i just manged to find an mp3 of the sarah maclaclan trcak from the end of the last ep of season 2.

You could have just asked me... I have a folder on my mp3 player with about 80% of the tracks from the series... in chronological order.

Post by **Best First** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:08 pm

har. that's ace.

edit:

http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2006/07 ... ffy_c.html

Post by **Best First** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:27 am

anyway:

Xander paid for Cordy's dress. egro: hero.

edit - i was off my tree watching The Prom hen i wrote this. it made me happy.