What is freedom?

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:39 pm

eh?

people (i.e politicians) bandy around this conept all the time - but what does it actually mean?

i mean i'm not free. i have a certain degree of autonomy sure but its still dependant on me obeying certain rules of my society.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:45 pm

Freedom...

Well, if music is anything to go by (and for the purposes of this post, I'm deciding that it is), then we can discern the following facts:

- It isn't free
- Wham! don't want yours

I have little else to contribute.

der2 · Post by **der2** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:53 pm

sometimes it strikes me as an illusion, that we are all tied in some small way to conform to outside forces. That can be many number of things, whether you must conform to the rules of government and society or to traditions of family, their are a great many things holding one back.

It strikes me that my freedom to do what I want comes into conflict with what others want. So we are told that we are free to do things so long as they fall into certain fields. If we were trully free there would be no such thing as treason as we would be free to be true to ourselves and not to others.

freedom it strikes me is also a word used to justify actions that would seem barbaric to others, saying that they do it in the name of freedom, immediatley making themselves heroes and making anyone who stands against them some form of oppressor

although we do all have to some degree a great amount of freedom, which at times I know I take for granted, such as being able to spend time here every so-often. It all depends on what you want to be free to do.

I find my bubble is often burst when I want to travel, having to get the okay in the form of a visa to travel to different parts of the globe. Land which has been claimed by men (and women) who rap miles of red tape around going. It can at times be somewhat disheartening.

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:40 pm

I don't think we really have freedom. We have a relative amount but all in all we still have to obey the rules of society. And the rules we've set out in our own minds, I guess... so, we have just as much freedom as society and ourselves allow us?

I like this topic.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:01 pm

saysadie wrote:I don't think we really have freedom. We have a relative amount but all in all we still have to obey the rules of society. And the rules we've set out in our own minds, I guess...

But, do we have to obey the rules of society, or is this just how we've been conditioned by society into believing that it benefits us to obey the rules of society? To inhibit certain aspects of ourselves?

What about those who to ignore the rules of society? They're branded as anti-social, sociopaths, criminals and in extreme cases terrorists and enemies of the state, but only by the society that they're not conforming to.

Surely, it's not that we have as much freedom as society and ourselves allow, but ultimately, we have as much freedom as we allow ourselves to have?

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:10 pm

It's an ILLUSION. One of the few ways to gain almost complete freedom however is to free yourself from the foolish, meaningless rules of society.

And one way of doing that is to delve into the teachings of Edward Crowley, and do away with the individual-crampening laws of said human society.

One of the characters I like the most in fiction is Cletus Casady. There you have a man that has freed himself from the pain of guilt, the yoke of conscience, the slavery of the 'law' and other insecurities and platitudes.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:48 pm

I dunno. We've all been commenting on only a single facet of freedom - political freedom. But freedom goes way beyond that, into the philosophical and, ultimately into the biological, chemical, physical and metaphysical.

I mean, beyond society saying things like "do the crime, do the time", etc. there's the lack of freedom to go without food indefinitely, to not poison or harm yourself, to not die, and to not fly off into space, or fire electric bolts from your fingertips.

I know the last two seem a little far-fetched (except in Predabot's mind), but they are examples of freedoms we do not have based on our understanding of the fundementals of the physical world.

Therefore, freedom of reality must also be something that is denied us, as our imaginations, especially the more vivid ones, far outstrip our abilities to implement them.

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:56 pm

Rebis wrote:I know the last two seem a little far-fetched (except in Predabot's mind), but they are examples of freedoms we do not have based on our understanding of the fundementals of the physical world.

Therefore, freedom of reality must also be something that is denied us, as our imaginations, especially the more vivid ones, far outstrip our abilities to implement them.

How'd you know??

Seriously.

But in one way, the wall that is immagination IS the way to unshakle your mind from the limitations of reality, why every day I dream cosmic dreams awake, I have hundreds of cosmic and semi-cosmic characters that have sprung from my and friends mind and one my prize creation is my god mold in my likeness, and without limitation.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:46 am

Predabot wrote:
Rebis wrote:I know the last two seem a little far-fetched (except in Predabot's mind), but they are examples of freedoms we do not have based on our understanding of the fundementals of the physical world.

Therefore, freedom of reality must also be something that is denied us, as our imaginations, especially the more vivid ones, far outstrip our abilities to implement them.
How'd you know?? Seriously.

But in one way, the wall that is immagination IS the way to unshakle your mind from the limitations of reality, why every day I dream cosmic dreams awake, I have hundreds of cosmic and semi-cosmic characters that have sprung from my and friends mind and one my prize creation is my god mold in my likeness, and without limitation.

But, and this is the most important but you've ever had directed at you Predabot, they're not real!

That alone is proof of the lack of freedom of reality. Notice I said freedom OF reality, not freedom FROM reality. Big difference there.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:52 am

What would you do
If you were asked to give up your dreams for freedom
What would you do
If asked to make the ultimate sacrifice

Would you think about all them people
Who gave up everything they had.
Would you think about all them War Vets
And would you start to feel bad

Freedom isn't free
It costs folks like you and me
And if we don't all chip in
We'll never pay that bill
Freedom isn't free
No, there's a hefty ******' fee.
And if you don't throw in your buck 'o five
Who will?

What would you do
If someone told you to fight for freedom.
Would you answer the call
Or run away like a little pussy
'Cause the only reason that you're here.
Is 'cause folks died for you in the past
So maybe now it's your turn
To die kicking some ass

Freedom isn't free
It costs folks like you and me
And if we don't all chip in
We'll never pay that bill
Freedom isn't free
Now there's a have to hook'in fee
And if you don't throw in your buck 'o five
Who will?

You don't throw in your buck 'o five. Who will?
Oooh buck 'o five
Freedom costs a buck 'o five