The irony is crushing me!

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:09 am

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsartic ... rss&rpc=22

PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - A civil rights watchdog agency opened an investigation on Monday into a Philadelphia cheese steak restaurant that posted a sign saying "This is America - when ordering, speak English."

The Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations complaint effectively opens a case against Geno's Steaks of South Philadelphia, said Rachel Lawton, acting executive director of the agency.

The Philadelphia controversy has fed a national debate over immigration in which the U.S. Senate passed a bill that would declare English the national language and politicians have raised objections to a Spanish version of the national anthem.

The sign may violate the city's Fair Practices Ordinance, which bans businesses from discriminating on the basis of nationality or ethnicity, Lawton said.

"The complaint will say that the sign discourages patronage by non-English speakers because of their national origin and/or ancestry," Lawton, whose agency enforces the city's anti-discrimination laws, said before the official filing.

Geno's will be given up to two weeks to respond and, if the agency determines the sign has violated the city ordinance, will be ordered to take the sign down. If the restaurant refuses, it will be subject to a $300 fine, Lawton said.

Geno's owner Joey Vento, the grandson of Italian immigrants, said he has no plans to remove the sign.

"I don't see why I should have to. It's freedom of speech," said Vento, 66, who opened the restaurant 40 years ago.

The Irony. Oh the irony. Irony is a renewable resource! Let's fuel cars with it!

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:43 am

It's freedom of speech until someone wants to use it...

Why is it always idiots/morons/bigots using phrases similar to "it's a free country/It's my right as a citizen/it's freedom of speech" to defend their moronic decisions?

Post by **Best First** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:28 am

irony is dead.

Chuck Norris killed it.

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:45 am

But if everybody that works at Vito's only speaks english... how are they going to be able to serve costumers that don't..?

I'll be guessing that if there's huge possibility for getting many immigrant guests, he should logically hire people that speaks Spanish, I guess.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:37 pm

i go abroad quite a lot, and i am crap at languages, however i find througha combination of pointing and smiling and using the occasional word that i have picked up (please and thankyou usually being the best) i can order food just fine.

so that argeument doesn't really work.

This is America - when ordering, slide increasingly towards the far right whilst continuing to claim you are a democracy

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:10 pm

I dunno, I was discussing the whole Spanish/American thing with a guy I met in SF and he said "What's the problem? why don't they just learn English?" Seeing as he was an Italian who had learned German when he lived in Germany, and (impeccable) English when he moved to London and then New York, he had a fair point.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:14 pm

you could say the same thing about the French speakers in Canada though - its a bit of a different game when you are a young nation built on immigration (cough invasion) from European countries and you have much more pronounced vying cultures.

or somethng.

Chuck Norris · Post by **Chuck Norris** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:00 pm

Best First wrote:irony is dead.

Chuck Norris killed it.

Actually i let Alanis do that for me, i couldn't be bothered.

The Last Autobot · Post by **The Last Autobot** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:48 pm

Best First wrote:
This is America - when ordering, slide increasingly towards the far right whilst continuing to claim you are a democracy

Or:

This is America - when ordering, take out a gun so we will know you were born here!

Post by **Best First** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:51 pm

Given that you have a tendancy to supplly them to people who, huh, hate you that may not work.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:21 am

TBH, and speaking from the middle of Texas, I don't think that's an unreasonable request. All they're asking them to do is ORDER in English. That's like going to the grocery store in America and asking for a kilogram of ground beef or something.
I mean, where I work, people off ALL nationalities come in to order, and they all try to speak English or point at things and I help them, because if they just tried to tell me what they want in their language we wouldn't get very far (in fact, if they can't speak English, there's a decent chance they can't read the menu, either).
Whenever I go to a taqueria or just a taco stand, I order in Spanish, so I figure, why the hell not?

And this in no way endorses American xenophobia. Just efficient and logical customer service. C'mon OPR, you're in the biz, you know what I'm talkin' about.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:54 am

Shanti418 wrote:TBH, and speaking from the middle of Texas, I don't think that's an unreasonable request. All they're asking them to do is ORDER in English. That's like going to the grocery store in America and asking for a kilogram of ground beef or something.
I mean, where I work, people off ALL nationalities come in to order, and they all try to speak English or point at things and I help them, because if they just tried to tell me what they want in their language we wouldn't get very far (in fact, if they can't speak English, there's a decent chance they can't read the menu, either).
Whenever I go to a taqueria or just a taco stand, I order in Spanish, so I figure, why the hell not?

And this in no way endorses American xenophobia. Just efficient and logical customer service. C'mon OPR, you're in the biz, you know what I'm talkin' about.

i'd look at the way its writtena bit more closely.

if the sign said "If possible please order in English" that would be a slightly different kettle of halibut.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:55 pm

Well yeah, not the nicest sign in the world, basically due to the "This is America" sign.

But unfortunately, in a nation where we have citizen militia groups patroling the border with guns, where we are seriously considering putting webcams up all over the border so you too can bust illegals from the comfort of your computer chair, getting by with only being exposed to a rather rude sign isn't too bad.

If I was in Russia and had a sign that said, "This is Russia, speak Russian," people would be like, "No duh."
If I was in France and had a sign that said, "This is France, speak French," people would be like, "Oh, that Frenchman. He's so silly."
Granted, we don't speak AMERICAN, but functionally, it's the same idea.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:45 pm

refer to previous comments about young nations. your main language is imported which is not true in a similar way of the examples you list.

also, whilst something may not be a s bad as something else, if its bad at all its not a terrible thing if someone is doing something about it is it?

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:03 pm

I think it worries me more that ppl cannot understand why things like this are just plain 'wrong' - sometimes these things shouldnt need analysing to such a degree, they are just wrong.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:23 pm

The sign is not there for those who can't speak english. They can't read the sign. The sign is there to make those who can read and speak English feel superior to those who can't and get a "damn straight!" out of those same people.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:38 pm

Best First wrote:refer to previous comments about young nations. your main language is imported which is not true in a similar way of the examples you list.

Hmmm...that explains why I said functionally, then....

My main point is that for the action of exchanging currency for goods and services in America, given that the majority of Americans speak English, it probably will expedite the process if you conduct this exchange in the language most commonly known and understood.

Now I love Spanish. I love speaking Spanish. I love talking in Spanish when it is not necessary. But if I were to walk into Joe Blow buisness establishment, I would talk in English, becuase that's what he's going to know. If I go into a deli and say "Me puedas traer un jamon y queso con cebollas y mostaza," that's simply going to confuse him and prolong the transaction.

I undertand that the sign is rather blunt, coarse, and xenophobic. But it seems like most of the posters so far don't like the concept of a sign entirely.

In this vein, I'm currently working on a telenovella script set in America right after Hispanics become the majority where Spanish has just become the official language of the nation. Coming soon to a YouTube near you.

I'm not saying it's BAD to do something about it, it's just effort better put towards other things. You know, our national infrastructure is crumbling, our society is dissolving, and we want to sit around and argue about language, abortion, and homosexuality.

And as for the can't speak English thing...even if they're not fluent, they can probably get the gist of the sign, just as someone with only a passing knowledge of Spanish may understand that "Se habla Espanol" means we speak Spanish.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:26 pm

So, when more people in the US speak Spanish than English, should we immediately start putting up signs saying "This is America. Order in Spanish?"

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:18 pm

First of all, just because Hispanics will eventually have a population majority doesn't mean that all of them will speak only Spanish and be unwilling to speak anything else. There are plenty of Hispanics, like myself, who were not brought up with Spanish, and don't know it, unless we try to learn it.

Secondly, if you'll refer to my previous post, no, that's not going to happen, but it sure would make a premise for a funny movie! We're even going to have white people speaking horrible Spanish. MMmmmm, taste that satire.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:56 am

Who has halibut from a kettle?

Besty, you crazy!

It seems that multilingual cultures are enriched by the addition, not hurt. Other than the separatists, I've never heard people complain about French in Quebec. And Gaelic in Scotland and Ireland is just cool. Spanish represents a big part of the Southwest's history. If we don't speak that, maybe we should all learn Paiute.