Satanism

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:23 pm

After much searching, I have found a religion that shares the beliefs that I have long held. The beliefs and ideals of this religion are kept in practice because they are logical and benefitial to those that practice them, not because an invisible man in the sky says so.

I'm curious, though, to see if my beliefs are defensible to those who are outside of the religion.

The members of this board are some of the most forward-thinking people I have ever come across and I value and respect your thoughts and opinions.

Anybody want to discuss Satanism with a Satanist? No questions will be answered with "because the book says so" and no criticism will be met with "your beliefs will send you to hell!"

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:32 pm

"Their" (your?

)" commandments is basically a list of fully logical human behaviour if I remember correctly?

Like "Treat people with respect". "Treat animals with respect". etc?

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:42 pm

Obfleur wrote:"Their" (your? )" commandments is basically a list of fully logical human behaviour if I remember correctly?

Like "Treat people with respect". "Treat animals with respect". etc?

More or less. The 9 Satanic Statements are as follows:

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:04 pm

If Satan doesn't stop putting exclamation marks at the end of every sentence, I'll pull your nuts off!

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:15 pm

As far as I understand it, Anton LaVey's Satanism has always been, philosophically, more of an empowering humanism with an occult face than an actual destructive organization.

So kudos. Now go kill a goat, you crazy bastard.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:22 pm

Pissin' Poonani wrote:If Satan doesn't stop putting exclamation marks at the end of every sentence, I'll pull your nuts off!

Satan represent AGRESSIVE PUNCTUATION instead of COMMON punctuation!

Stormwolf · Post by **Stormwolf** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:33 pm

I only worship Cthulhu, so I'll get eaten first when the world gets turned into a living hell.

http://bellend.strtok.net/~tyler/cthulhu/

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:07 pm

sprunkner wrote:As far as I understand it, Anton LaVey's Satanism has always been, philosophically, more of an empowering humanism with an occult face than an actual destructive organization.

So, rather than a religion, it's more of an ideaology?

Damnit! Those RS classes I was forced to take at school are finally paying off!

EDIT: Sorry, I'll rephrase that.

Damnit! Those RS classes I was forced to take at school are finally paying off!

Cthulhu · Post by **Cthulhu** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:11 pm

Stormwolf wrote:I only worship Cthulhu, so I'll get eaten first when the world gets turned into a living hell.

http://bellend.strtok.net/~tyler/cthulhu/

So thinks you!

Umm, I mean, carry on soldier!

Post by **Best First** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:13 pm

Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

enough to turn me off.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:28 am

Yeah I have to admit I read that and it turned me of to - Vengance to me is somthing that can lead to the erm dark side...oh u know what I mean...

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:30 am

Sounds like it suffers the exact same flaws as every other ideology to me- i.e. a load of nice sounding grand-stand ideas which basically boil down to "these things are right because... we said they're right."

Your commandments are just as fallable as any others I've heard- I can think of numerous circumstances where doing the opposite of your commandments would be a good idea (not difficult). I can also see several contradictions within them also. So adherence to them would seem to stem from belief in their righteousness purely for its own sake.

Or more simply put, if everyone else's religion is dumb why is this one any better? Sounds like the same brand of magical pixie, you just seem to have found one who talks a language you find palatable.

If you want to enjoy your life you might as well do so, I see no reason to 'rationalise' it with a doctrine. Unless you're merely interested in being able to associate with a particular social group for either identity or the attention such an often maligned group as Satanists receives.

Good luck with it if it makes you happy, naturally, but quite why you're inviting people to dissect it when you're more than capable of that yourself I can't guess.

The Last Autobot · Post by **The Last Autobot** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:28 am

Professor Smooth wrote:After much searching, I have found a religion that shares the beliefs that I have long held. The beliefs and ideals of this religion are kept in practice because they are logical and benefitial to those that practice them, not because an invisible man in the sky says so.

Yeah now you only turn to the invisible guy who is below you.

Thats quite a logical change!

I preferred you as the die hard atheist. Maybe now you are being written by a differrent guy, maybe Chuck Austen?

Extra points for the one who knows the Chuck Austen trivia detail!!! (these punctuation marks are not satanic by the way)

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:08 am

Best First wrote:
Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
enough to turn me off.

If someone slugs you, are you going to say "he'll get his in the end" or, assuming you're ready to accept any legal and physical consequences, are you going to slug him right back? I'd fight back.

This is basic human nature. If attacked, defend yourself in such a way as to prevent further attack.

The 9 Satanic Statments do not stand on their own. Rather, they are titles for chapters in the Satanic Bible. These chapters explain the ideas in detail.

Karl Lynch wrote:Sounds like it suffers the exact same flaws as every other ideology to me- i.e. a load of nice sounding grand-stand ideas which basically boil down to "these things are right because... we said they're right."

This isn't exactly true. With most other ideologies, it's right because they say it is. With Satanism, the "we" is one man, Dr. Anton Szandor LaVey. As I said above, the Satanic Bible's chapters go into vivid (and, more importantly, practicle) detail as to why the statements are useful. They're not necessarily right, but if put into practice, they make a whole lot of sense to me.

Karl Lynch wrote: Your commandments are just as fallable as any others I've heard- I can think of numerous circumstances where doing the opposite of your commandments would be a good idea (not difficult). I can also see several contradictions within them also. So adherence to them would seem to stem from belief in their righteousness purely for its own sake.

Since there is no god to worship in Satanism, there are also no absolutes. In many situations, following the 9 Satanic Statements will lead to prosperity on the part of the follower. In many situations, of course, alternative paths must be taken. The statements are what Satan represents, not what must be done in all circumstances at all times.

Karl Lynch wrote: Or more simply put, if everyone else's religion is dumb why is this one any better? Sounds like the same brand of magical pixie, you just seem to have found one who talks a language you find palatable.

I can't very well say that everyone else's religion is dumb. People who follow many other religions can be quite stupid. Belief in something with absolutely no evidence to support its existance (and mountains to suggest the opposite) to the point where you try to deprive people of the right to go against its will is pretty brainless.

Karl Lynch wrote: If you want to enjoy your life you might as well do so, I see no reason to 'rationalise' it with a doctrine. Unless you're merely interested in being able to associate with a particular social group for either identity or the attention such an often maligned group as Satanists receives.

When I first thought about becoming a Satanist, I felt like I had to hide it. I did not want my friends and family to think I was some kind of whack-job who sacrificed goats to Lucifer and did all sorts of nasty things. Satanism, though, isn't about rituals, gods, demons, and strict systems of belief. In Satanism, I found a religion that is tolerant of all people of all ages, genders, religions, sexual orientations, ethnicities, and professions. Satanism was the first organized religion to openly accept homosexuals and women as equal straight men in all ways.

Karl Lynch wrote: Good luck with it if it makes you happy, naturally, but quite why you're inviting people to dissect it when you're more than capable of that yourself I can't guess.

Thanks. The reason I'm inviting people to dissect it is because I spent so long railing against all religions, that if, after joining one myself, I couldn't defend my position to the same people I railed against, I feel like I'm just spinning my wheels.

The Last Autobot wrote:
Yeah now you only turn to the invisible guy who is below you.

Thats quite a logical change!

I preferred you as the die hard atheist. Maybe now you are being written by a differrent guy, maybe Chuck Austen?

Extra points for the one who knows the Chuck Austen trivia detail!!! (these punctuation marks are not satanic by the way)

As strange as it sounds at first, Satanists do not worship (or even believe in the existance of) Satan, or Hell. We follow the philosophy that, since man creates gods in his own image, each person is his or her own god.

I'm still an Atheist, but that's the beauty of Satanism; I can do both!

The Last Autobot · Post by **The Last Autobot** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:27 am

As strange as it sounds at first, Satanists do not worship (or even believe in the existance of) Satan, or Hell. We follow the philosophy that, since man creates gods in his own image, each person is his or her own god.

I'm still an Atheist, but that's the beauty of Satanism; I can do both!

You have no God still you attribute the things you do to an "entity". And you dont believe in his existance, yet "follow" him? I dont know who is crazier. The man who follows someone who believes exists. Or the one who does the same saying it doesnt.

So you are your own man and still say "Satan this" and "Satan that" in your commandments? So right and wrong are personified in him through them.

Finally I find it very funny to speak about rights were many of your commandments would infringe other people rights depending of the interpretation (after all everyone is their own god, right? So I interpret things as I like), mainly the vengeance one or the 8th.

Well maybe all is solved if you buy better weed next time

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:38 am

The Last Autobot wrote:
As strange as it sounds at first, Satanists do not worship (or even believe in the existance of) Satan, or Hell. We follow the philosophy that, since man creates gods in his own image, each person is his or her own god.

I'm still an Atheist, but that's the beauty of Satanism; I can do both!

You have no God still you attribute the things you do to an "entity". And you dont believe in his existance, yet "follow" him? I dont know who is crazier. The man who follows someone who believes exists. Or the one who does the same saying it doesnt.

So you are your own man and still say "Satan this" and "Satan that" in your commandments? So right and wrong are personified in him through them.

Finally I find it very funny to speak about rights were many of your commandments would infringe other people rights depending of the interpretation (after all everyone is their own god, right? So I interpret things as I like), mainly the vengeance one or the 8th.

Well maybe all is solved if you buy better weed next time

I'm not explaining myself well enough. Satanists do not believe in Satan. "Satan," to us, represents certain ideals. It's similar to the US and Uncle Sam. Americans don't believe that he's a real person, but he stands for truth, justice, and bunch of other stuff that Superman ripped off.

The 9 Satanic Statements are not Commandments, they're suggestions.

How do the statements infringe on other people's rights?

Post by **Best First** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:51 am

Professor Smooth wrote:
Best First wrote:
Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
enough to turn me off.
If someone slugs you, are you going to say "he'll get his in the end" or, assuming you're ready to accept any legal and physical consequences, are you going to slug him right back? I'd fight back.

This is basic human nature.

yeah, well its also human nature to do lots of the thing sthat you regularly rail against on this board.

Vengence is for pussies. I can take a punch. Vengence is why we are in Iraq and why Al Qaida feel justified in bombing London buses. It leads nowhere except to moe of the same.

Its also notably similar to a line from the old testament.

Of course people's usual instinct is to kiss my beautiful face, so it doens't really matter.

Also i don't see much value in challenging people to dissect a list of statements and then when they do going 'aaah, but there are chapters that back them up'.

Finally, as soon as you say, "ah, well they are more suggestions, and in other situations you probably wouldn't follow them" again any suggestion of debating goes out the window.

Double finally, if there is no gods involved, its not a religion, its a philosophy.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:02 am

Professor Smooth wrote:
Best First wrote:
Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
enough to turn me off.
If someone slugs you, are you going to say "he'll get his in the end" or, assuming you're ready to accept any legal and physical consequences, are you going to slug him right back? I'd fight back.

This is basic human nature.

It's basic animal nature to react in some way to an immediate real or presumed threat (think of what would happen if you accidentally trod on a dog's paw or tail), but that's not vengeance.

Vengeance isn't instinctive, it's premeditated.

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:36 pm

I understand where you're coming from Smooth but I still don't grasp why you want to align yourself with an ideological group when you're capable of doing all the things in it regardless, it sounds a bit like claiming that being a Christian makes you a better person: you're more than capable of doing good things without being a Christian.

The ideas behind Satanism seem mostly to do with pleasing yourself and getting the most out of the world- now to be frank I don't blame you for that, although I don't necessarily agree with it either, you only live once and you might as well enjoy it but obviously there are many occassions when we do things for others which have no benefit on us just because its human (I suppose... although it's a weak justification). But why do you need to join a cult to do these things? I've nothing against the cult in the slightest, it's your motives after spending so long speaking out against such things which are a bit confusing (btw, you have said such things as "everyone who believes in a religion should be shot" so you're doing pretty well in the 'everybody who believes in a religion is dumb' stakes

).

Essentially:

When I first thought about becoming a Satanist, I felt like I had to hide it. I did not want my friends and family to think I was some kind of whack-job who sacrificed goats to Lucifer and did all sorts of nasty things. Satanism, though, isn't about rituals, gods, demons, and strict systems of belief. In Satanism, I found a religion that is tolerant of all people of all ages, genders, religions, sexual orientations, ethnicities, and professions. Satanism was the first organized religion to openly accept homosexuals and women as equal straight men in all ways.

Why do you need alignment with a religion/doctrine to do these things, especially when you accept yourself that there is no higher power or 'divinity' involved? For example, I took up Buddhism because its system of outlooks on the self and on life gave me mental mechanisms for dealing with the bad things that happen in life where previously I had virtually none, without the requirement for belief in Gods or angels [or extensive psychotherapy...], and some ability to pass those mechanisms on to others to help with their suffering. (Although sadly I don't even believe in reincarnation these days, which makes me a depressing Buddhist! "Life is suffering.... but eventually you die. full stop."

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:00 pm

Can't say I understand why you'd want to join a group like when you can do everything it represents anyway, but then I say the same thing about pretty much every religion I've come across. To each their own.

I don't get why people seem to become so defensive when someone says they're a Satanist either- though I guess it's similar to the reaction I had when one of my friends told me they'd become more religious-apparently I had a "best friend just died" expression on my face...

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:02 pm

I believe in Lord Xenu!
Hail Lord Xenu.

Grrrrr

Post by **Best First** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:33 pm

i believe in Spider-man.

with great power....

word.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:23 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:...Although sadly I don't even believe in reincarnation these days, which makes me a depressing Buddhist! "Life is suffering.... but eventually you die. full stop."

Best thing I've read all year.

I tend towards Satanist principles some days, sometimes I'm a bit Bhuddist. Having just spent an hour in the garden I'm swinging way back towards Darwinism at the moment. I am concerned about psychic vampires, though.

And let's not forget, God has done his fair bit of vengeance in his time.

Post by **Best First** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:49 pm

inventive too, pillar of salt anyone?

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:04 pm

Yeah, God turned her into salt for turning around. And he killed Onan for wanking. Not to mention casting the whole of mankind into mortality for eating fruit.

Does this mean God is a Satanist? Or that he at least adheres to Satanic prinicples?

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:50 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:Yeah, God turned her into salt for turning around.
Does this mean God is a Satanist? Or that he at least adheres to Satanic prinicples?

I certainly can't find anything to contradict that thought. God hails Satan!

Errr, God HAILS SATAN!

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:57 pm

I am what I am - I know right from wrong and feel I can answer many of lifes dilemas by applying logic and experience to it.

I dont religon or ideolagy etc...

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:50 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:I am what I am - I know right from wrong and feel I can answer many of lifes dilemas by applying logic and experience to it.

I dont religon or ideolagy etc...

That's cool. I completely understand that. Is there a name for this school of thought?

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:13 am

Having just left my lifelong, life-shaping religion for nothing more substantial than meditation, yoga and Rumi, (I guess that's pretty substantial stuff, now that I think about it) I'm not one to criticize anyone's religion.

But any ideology that perpetuates anything good, if it is in any way institutionalized, will perpetuate an equal amount of bulls***. I think I agree with Karl. And I waffle between reincarnation and full stop, too. Reincarnation would be nice, but full stop seems much more likely.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:57 am

sprunkner wrote:Reincarnation would be nice, but full stop seems much more likely.

Agreed.

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