Satanism

Post by **Best First** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:34 am

The Last Autobot wrote:
Well if you follow the jewish traditions Satan or Samael is just an angel. Who, as all the others, is a servant of Javeh . In his case he has the task of tempting people in choosing, so humans have free will and right to pick the wrong path (Ietzer HaRá) or remain in the right one (Ietzer HaTov).

Just how messed up is that by the way?

also, that's not free will in any way shape or form, is it?

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:05 pm

The Last Autobot wrote:The catholics have somewhat increased Satan rank in a way that could equal politheism.

Satan as the Catholics often painted him - a hooved and horned figure with a trident - is largely derived from Pan, the Greek god of shepherds. Early Christianity used this image to cast pagan horned gods across Europe; such as Cernunnos, Caerwiden and Herne; in a negative light. So, basically, he's just something that the church made up as a marketing ploy to get more believers.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:12 pm

so, esentially, like Santa.

hey! waitaminute! move the n...

666!

666!

666!

The Last Autobot · Post by **The Last Autobot** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:05 pm

Best First wrote: also, that's not free will in any way shape or form, is it?

Well you have free will but if you use it for the wrong path you are doomed

so, esentially, like Santa.

Well but Santa s popularity is really Coca Cola fault.

Metal Vendetta wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:The catholics have somewhat increased Satan rank in a way that could equal politheism.
Satan as the Catholics often painted him - a hooved and horned figure with a trident - is largely derived from Pan, the Greek god of shepherds. Early Christianity used this image to cast pagan horned gods across Europe; such as Cernunnos, Caerwiden and Herne; in a negative light. So, basically, he's just something that the church made up as a marketing ploy to get more believers.

Yes, but the play (and ploy) has worked somewhat in a different way. If you position a force as an opposition to God and you assume He is ALL powerful then you are acting as a politheist with 2 Gods (one of Goodness and one of Evil). And that is -sadly- what many catholics/christians do but dont realize.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:07 pm

The Last Autobot wrote:Yes, but the play (and ploy) has worked somewhat in a different way. If you position a force as an opposition to God and you assume He is ALL powerful then you are acting as a politheist with 2 Gods (one of Goodness and one of Evil). And that is -sadly- what many catholics/christians do but dont realize.

I don't really follow - are you saying that they're wrong? Are you suggesting that the Jews are right?

The Last Autobot · Post by **The Last Autobot** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:31 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:Yes, but the play (and ploy) has worked somewhat in a different way. If you position a force as an opposition to God and you assume He is ALL powerful then you are acting as a politheist with 2 Gods (one of Goodness and one of Evil). And that is -sadly- what many catholics/christians do but dont realize.
I don't really follow - are you saying that they're wrong? Are you suggesting that the Jews are right?

More right than the catholics, in the Monotheic sense that they dont have Satan in such high regard as us.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:38 pm

My religion is better than your religion!

i think i am going to get a t-shirt with that on.

and possibly a picture of a tank.

Also, the notion that free will can be defined as having 2 choice one of which is wrong is, well, ha ha ha springs to mind.

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:12 pm

The Last Autobot wrote:
Well but Santa s popularity is really Coca Cola fault.

Nope-Santa's popularity is down to him giving away tons of free **** once a year.

Coca Cola just made him red.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:19 pm

Pissin' Poonani wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:
Well but Santa s popularity is really Coca Cola fault.

Nope-Santa's popularity is down to him giving away tons of free **** once a year.

Coca Cola just made him red.

And also rebranded him as Father Christmas in other countries. Like other companies of the time: Marathon and Snickers, Jif and Cif, Transformers and Super Robot Lifeform, Bert and Ernie.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:43 am

The Last Autobot wrote:
Metal Vendetta wrote:I don't really follow - are you saying that they're wrong? Are you suggesting that the Jews are right?
More right than the catholics, in the Monotheic sense that they dont have Satan in such high regard as us.

So the Jews are more right than the Catholics because they believe that Satan is Javeh's servant? Is that correct? I mean, is this just your opinion, or have you seen it written somewhere in really big letters?

The Last Autobot · Post by **The Last Autobot** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:08 am

Metal Vendetta wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:
Metal Vendetta wrote:I don't really follow - are you saying that they're wrong? Are you suggesting that the Jews are right?
More right than the catholics, in the Monotheic sense that they dont have Satan in such high regard as us.
So the Jews are more right than the Catholics because they believe that Satan is Javeh's servant? Is that correct? I mean, is this just your opinion, or have you seen it written somewhere in really big letters?

Not my opinion.

An argument among the jews scholars is that Catholicism can be labeled as a Monotheist religion. A group considers that yes, but another thinks is not the case supported in a few things:

1)In all the saints, images and related things (with this aspect in mind is that other christian groups criticize catholicism).

2)The notion of Father+Son+Holy Spirit.

3)All the Satan Vs God war/end of the world/fight for the world dilemma. According to them Satan cannot aspire or even rivalize God in any way, he -as any other angel- follows His orders. To think otherwise means equality of powers. And also the conduct of fear the catholics portray.

The way rank and file catholics behave -in my opinion- somewhat gives weight to the first and third things.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:03 am

Just to be cler - the whole Santa/coke thing - that was the gag.

on the monothiesm front, Catholics, and other Christaisn, worship of Mary also supposrt the notion that they aren't that mono in their thiesm.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:33 pm

The Last Autobot wrote:Not my opinion.

An argument among the jews scholars is that Catholicism can be labeled as a Monotheist religion. A group considers that yes, but another thinks is not the case supported in a few things...

Inscriptions, carvings and references older than the Old Testament indicate that the Jews used to worship Javeh as the god of war in a pantheon that included Baal the god of peace and Astatra the goddess of the earth. Monotheism was a long time coming, and I still don't understand what makes monotheism any more "right" or "correct" that polytheism, pantheism or atheism.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:24 pm

its arguebly better for controlling people to have one unquestionale source of power i suppose...

that or you are just trying to distinguish your idea from the rest and beat down the competetion.

plus you save on statues.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:30 pm

The first commandment:

I am The Lord, thy God, and thou shalt have no other gods before me!

Now, this is interesting.

I get the "I am the Lord, thy God " part.

However the "other gods" thing? Doesn't that imply that, somewhere, there ARE other gods?

Then there's the "before me" part. So, it's alright to worship other gods as long as The Lord comes first?

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:56 pm

*kneels

Lord, your great.
Stan lee, you too.

but get it the other way around - zap mother ****er.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:58 pm

Professor Smooth wrote:The first commandment:

I am The Lord, thy God, and thou shalt have no other gods before me!

Now, this is interesting.

I get the "I am the Lord, thy God " part.

However the "other gods" thing? Doesn't that imply that, somewhere, there ARE other gods?

Then there's the "before me" part. So, it's alright to worship other gods as long as The Lord comes first?

Yeah, God hates sloppy seconds.

Meanwhile, in the spirit of Nietzche.....
God is the Best
BF is the Best
BF is God?

Post by **Best First** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:12 pm

well, if that's the case then feel free to worship other Gods (altho i do recomen Stan Lee above all others) , just remember to buy me a pint occassionally.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:53 pm

Professor Smooth wrote:The first commandment:

I am The Lord, thy God, and thou shalt have no other gods before me!

Now, this is interesting.

I get the "I am the Lord, thy God " part.

However the "other gods" thing? Doesn't that imply that, somewhere, there ARE other gods?

It implies that there are other things that can be worshipped as gods.

Then there's the "before me" part. So, it's alright to worship other gods as long as The Lord comes first?

There's a bit later on in the Bible that talks about people whose god is their stomach. There are certainly things that some people turn into gods which aren't inherently in conflict with worshipping God.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:19 pm

That seems to be reaching a bit, doesn't it?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:26 pm

Certainly a way of controlling the eating populace.

"If you don't eat your greens, then god will be angry. And you know what happens when god gets angry? He makes you vomit!"

Charming!

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:15 pm

Bouncelot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:However the "other gods" thing? Doesn't that imply that, somewhere, there ARE other gods?
It implies that there are other things that can be worshipped as gods.

No, at the time the Semitic people worshipped a whole load of different gods. Baal is mentioned several times in the Old Testament and there are times when the people's worship strayed from Javeh back to their original gods. Moses was trying to unite the people, and the best way to do that was to use the idea of just one god above all others. Moses was also a genocidal mass-murderer, so you can see why they would listen to him.

But in this case, the commandment specifically refers to the other Hebrew gods. Check out 1 Kings 18.1–45, where the "prophets of the Ba’al" and the "prophets of the Asherah" and Elijah as prophet of Javeh on the other side, have a contest to see whose god can send rain first to alleviate the drought

I mean, how silly is that? If it rains, how do you know which god sent it?

"That's Asherah's rain!"
"No it isn't, Javeh sent it!"
"I don't see his name on it!"

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:56 pm

Metal Vendetta wrote:
Bouncelot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:However the "other gods" thing? Doesn't that imply that, somewhere, there ARE other gods?
It implies that there are other things that can be worshipped as gods.
No, at the time the Semitic people worshipped a whole load of different gods. Baal is mentioned several times in the Old Testament and there are times when the people's worship strayed from Javeh back to their original gods. Moses was trying to unite the people, and the best way to do that was to use the idea of just one god above all others. Moses was also a genocidal mass-murderer, so you can see why they would listen to him.

That those gods are worshipped doesn't automatically mean that they are real gods, or even that they exist.

But in this case, the commandment specifically refers to the other Hebrew gods. Check out 1 Kings 18.1–45, where the "prophets of the Ba’al" and the "prophets of the Asherah" and Elijah as prophet of Javeh on the other side, have a contest to see whose god can send rain first to alleviate the drought

I mean, how silly is that? If it rains, how do you know which god sent it?
"That's Asherah's rain!"
"No it isn't, Javeh sent it!"
"I don't see his name on it!"

It's not a contest to see whose god sends rain first to alleviate the drought. It's a contest to see which god will call down fire from heaven to burn up a sacrifice on an altar. And Baal and Asherah were Caananite gods who were worshipped by some of the Israelites rather than natively Hebrew gods. Although after YHWH has won the contest, He then sends the rain as well.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:13 pm

Bouncelot wrote:That those gods are worshipped doesn't automatically mean that they are real gods, or even that they exist.

Spoken like a true agnostic...

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:41 am

In the name of Thom Yorke, Joss Whedon, and oh... what the hell, Besty, Amen.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:45 pm

sprunkner wrote:In the name of Thom Yorke, Joss Whedon, and oh... what the hell, Besty, Amen.

Thou shalt speak ONLY in snappy, hilarious, and relevant dialogue!

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:50 am

Or milky, reverb-heavy falsetto.

(I'm talking about Besty, for those who didn't get it.)

Post by **Best First** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:51 am

*kicks sprunk in the nuts*

falsetto that

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:34 am

Best First wrote:*kicks sprunk in the nuts*

Oh Noes! An asteriked internet action!

He's got you there, Sprunk...

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:50 am

*farts in Besty's bed while he's not looking*

How did I get in your place? I'm awesome!