IGN: The top 25 X-Men

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IGN: The top 25 X-Men

Post by Hound » Mon May 22, 2006 5:27 pm

25.Strong Guy

First Appearance: New Mutants #29
Powers: Absorbs kinetic energy and re-channels it into physical strength.

Strong Guy isn't your typical Xer. He isn't devoted to Xavier's dream. Heck, it's hard to be certain he even understands Xavier's dream. But his personality makes up for his lack of devotion to the Church of X. Guido's not the smartest, but he is subtly one of the most noblest of X-Men. He's secondary job as bodyguard filters into the way he acts in X-Factor. He's a protector, the one guy you can expect to have your back. And he's funny as they get. And among the X-Men, they rarely get very funny.

24.Chamber

First Appearance: Generation X #1
Powers: Psionic energy discharge of a concussive or explosive nature, low-level telepathy for short-range communication

Poor Jonothan Starsmore has it rough. His ability allows him to unleash massive amounts of energy - so much so that the energy blew off his chest and lower face. Though this accident has drastically changed Chamber's outlook on life, he was still one of the original members of Generation X. This team of new mutants was viewed as the next wave of Charles Xavier's students. Although Chamber is now powerless and clinging to life because of "M-Day," he was one of the most promising members of Generation X, even being offered a permanent position with the X-Men.

23.Quicksilver
First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #1
Powers: Super-Speed

Son of Magneto, Quicksilver was originally a bad guy. Both he and his sister Wanda were members of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. Being bad just didn't suit Pietro's nature. Though he's selfish, brash, impulsive and, let's face it, a jerk, he also knows right from wrong. He spent considerable time with X-Factor and though he never quite felt at home with the X-Men, he understood the faults in his own father's ideology. Quicksilver is the rare mutant to serve on an X-team and the Avengers. He may have gone astray of late, but for much of his life in comics, Quicksilver was the shining example of a villain turned good.

22.Psylocke

First Appearance: New Mutants Annual #2
Powers: Psionic blades, telekinesis, telepathic immunity

Betsy Braddock began her career as somewhat of a joke. A stuck up English telepath, she had no place as an X-Man. Then came the change. In a somewhat inexplicable comic-book moment, Betsy's consciousness was merged with another to create the Psylocke we know today. She is, as can best be described, a psionic assassin, though she is reluctant to kill. She's the new age Rogue, a character given a new twist by merging memories and powers with another. Psylocke is a born leader and, in fact, briefly lead the X-Men. She may not have Wolverine's combat skills, but her other abilities make her one of the most potent fighters to ever wear the X.

21. Emma Frost

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #129
Powers: Telepathy, diamond-coated skin, being a bitch

In many ways a twisted version of Professor X, Emma Frost has raised and taught young mutants ever since her days in the Hellfire Club. In the Hellfire Club, Frost raised a young team of villains named the Hellions. After the team was slaughtered by Sentinels, Emma joined Xavier's cause and, with Banshee, was the leader and mentor of Generation X. Since she began her tenure with the X-Men, Frost has been involved in both telepathic and physical relationship with Cyclops, and has elevated herself to co-leader of the school. Although it was recently revealed that she might be a sleeper agent for something very sinister, there is no doubt that Emma desires, on some level, to achieve Xavier's dream.

20. Madrox

First Appearance: Giant-Size Fantastic Four #4
Powers: Create a seemingly infinite number of duplicates

Multiplicity itself doesn't make for an interesting character. But Madrox is about as complex as they get. His dupes each carry a piece of Jamie's personality, but Madrox never knows what part of his personality that might be upon creation. Every time he spawns a dupe, he's just as likely to find something surprising and good about himself, as he is to be face to face with his inner demons. Invited to be an X-Man, he wisely declined. It's not that he is opposed to Xavier's dream, it's that his own persona is better fit to the fringes, with a group like X-Factor. Jamie has grown into a leadership role, investigating mutant-related crimes and doing the dirty work often overlooked by the X-Men.

19. Banshee

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #28
Powers: Powerful voice capable of a variety of attacks, also allows Banshee to fly

Banshee has been associated with the X-Men for almost as long as the group has been in existence. A born leader, Banshee never truly had the opportunity to shine with Xavier's crew. He was co-headmaster of the Emma Frost's Massachusetts Academy, where he attempted to play the Xavier role and teach young mutants the value of "The Dream." Banshee was always one step removed from the original X-Men and seemed to be constantly trying to prove himself. He did so, even before sacrificing himself in an attempt save the lives of innocents.

18. Blink

First Appearance: X-Men Alpha
Powers: Creates portals that teleport her and anyone who enters to locations as far as the moon

The original Blink was a shy, almost forgettable girl. But in the Age of Apocalypse, we met an alternate version of Blink, one hardened by Apocalypse's genocidal war. Clarice is a tough young woman, who can be very creative with her powers. The young elf's loyalty and devotion to Sabretooth, a man who saved her from Dark Beast, is as strong as any bond in the X-Men Universe. Blink would go on to become leader of the Exiles. She remains the most popular X-Man to never earn a starring role in either of the premier X-Men books.

17. Bishop

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #282
Powers: Absorb and re-cast almost all forms of energy, including psionic attacks

Warnings of future peril have been common across the X-Men's timeline, but Bishop's arrival propelled the X-Universe forward for years. Coming from a future where the X-Men were dead, betrayed, supposedly, by Gambit, Bishop had greater regard and reverence for Xavier's dream than almost any other X-Man before or since. Bishop was integral in the Age of Apocalypse storyline and in the unfortunate Onslaught arc. While his knowledge of a potential future carries a strong warning for today's X-Men, he is proof that even in the most dire conditions, the Dream will live on.

16. Havok

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #58
Powers: Absorb and fire plasma energy

As brother of X-Man mainstay Scott Summers, Alex has struggled to find his place in the X-Universe. Always second fiddle to his brother, Havok has bounced from group to group, searching for the one place he fits in. Just as Cyclops strives to earn Xavier's approval, Havok seeks the approval of his own brother. He believes in the dream, though not necessarily Xavier's and Cyclops' methods. But if and when the final battle does come, Havok will stand beside the X-Men, no matter what.

15. Cable

First Appearance (as Cable): New Mutants #87
Powers: Telekinesis, telepathy, grossly disproportioned anatomy

Initially, Cable was little more than an over-muscled, gun-toting thug with a glowing eye. Over time, the character has evolved into one of the more interesting, if underappreciated, X-Men. Son of Scott Summers and Madelyne Prior, Cable was raised in an alternate future, where Apocalypse rules. The time-displaced mutant could be the most powerful on the planet, if the majority of his telekinetic skills were not focused on keeping his cybernetic body from falling apart. Cable lives on the fringes of the X-Universe, but he's an integral part of the X-Men's past and future.

14. Iceman

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #1
Powers: Can lower his own body temperature and free moisture around himself allowing for a multitude of creative applications

Bobby is the kid brother who never thought he could live up to expectations, so he didn't bother. Believe it or not, Iceman is one of the rare Omega mutants, a being potentially more powerful than Magneto or Xavier. This potential, however, may never be reached, because Bobby has little faith in himself. Despite his own personal issues, Iceman has been an X-Man almost his entire life. As with the best students, Bobby's time at Xavier's is about more than just The Dream -- it's about his own personal journey, one that sees him continuing to learn and grow.

13. Magneto

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #1
Powers: Near-complete control over electromagnetic spectrum with mastery so fine he can actually redirect the flow of iron in someone's brain to effectively alter their mind

Magneto is Xavier's perfect foil. Yet he has also been one of the most compelling X-Men of all time. After surrendering himself to authorities and being acquitted of his crimes, Magneto took over Xavier's school for a brief period. It is only through the contrast from his malevolent actions that Magneto's good side can shine so brightly. For all of the "bad guys" who have converted to the X-Men, Magneto remains the true test to Xavier's Dream. When Magneto is finally swayed, The Dream can truly thrive.

12. Sabretooth (AoA)

irst Appearance: X-Men Alpha
Powers: Healing factor, claws and fangs that can rend bone, heightened senses

The 616 Sabretooth is a bastard. He's evil down to his core. So when we first met the Age of Apocalypse Sabretooth, it was a bit of a shock. This alternate world Victor Creed is still a bad ass, but he's also a devoted X-Man and surrogate father to Blink. Sabretooth's willingness to sacrifice himself for others and his countless heroics in the Age of Apocalypse, earned him a spot in the X-Men Hall of Fame.

11. Archangel

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #1
Powers: Winged flight, heal others

One of the original X-Men, Warren Worthington has not had an easy life. Born into wealth, he was also saddled with a mutation almost impossible to hide. His wings, as the best mutations tend to be, are both blessing and curse. Archangel follows the heroic arc of champion who falls from grace only to rise again, better than before. After his wings were removed, Angel faked his own death and became one of the Horsemen of Apocalypse. He has since returned to the side of good and once again become on of the mutant population's most visible members.

10. Colossus

First Appearance: Giant-Size X-Men #1
Powers: Transmute flesh into organic steel, making him nearly invulnerable and providing super-strength

For most, the X-Men is an extended family. It figures that with few internal conflicts for Piotr within the X-Men, it's his biological family that causes so much trouble. Insanity runs through the Rasputin's, as does premature death. Faced with repeated tragedy, Colossus continues to maintain a positive outlook on life. He is the perfect contrast. In battle, he is the strongest X-Man, a brute force few can withstand. In private, he is a sensitive artist, deeply in love with Kitty Pryde.

9. Beast

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #1
Powers: Enhanced strength, incredible agility, prehensile feet

Hank is an original member of the X-Men and it would seem he'll be the very last to ever leave the mansion. He spends his days more often in the lab than in the trenches, but that makes him no less an X-Man. He is devoted to The Dream and firmly believes that man and mutant should live side by side as brothers. Hank has struggled with his animal form. He is, ironically, one of the most human of the X-Man, taking the opinions of others to heart. He shuts himself out from the world, often even from his teammates, to work in the lab and avoid the possibility of rejection for his looks. When the world can accept Henry McCoy, the X-Men will have succeeded in their mission

8. Storm

First Appearance: Giant-Size X-Men #1
Powers: Near total control of the weather, flight on gusts of wind

Few characters in the history of comics have seen as many in-continuity changes as Ororo Monroe. She is Goddess and warrior, friend and elitist, leader and loner. These contradictions are born from Ororo. They are not troubles merely sprung on by desperate writers. Storm is a character fighting who she once was (a frightened thief), who she thought she was (infallible goddess) and who she must become (an unwavering leader). Though Cyclops may be the default leader of the X-Men, in particular because of his allegiance to The Dream, Storm is the better choice to be in charge.

7. Nightcrawler

First Appearance: Giant-Size X-Men #1
Powers: Enhanced agility, nightvision, teleportation, prehensile tail

Faith should have a prominent role in Xavier's Dream. However, almost all of the faith-based concerns fall on the shoulders of Nightcrawler. Deeply religious, Nightcrawler is feared and hated for his devilish appearance (and German accent). Oddly enough, he seems to receive more venom from religious zealots than most X-Men simply because of the way he looks. Religion is one of the few commonalities that could bring mutants and humans together and it is through his fait that Nightcrawler has stayed true to the X-Men for so long.

6. Jean Grey

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #1
Powers: Telekinesis, Telepathy

Jean Grey is host to the most powerful entity in the universe. One of the original X-Men, Jean has become the symbol (and cruel joke) of death and rebirth among the mutant population. Partnered with the Phoenix Force, Jean has returned to the X-Men on several occasions. However, it's her first death that remains both memorable and significant to X-Men lore. Jean sacrificed herself, choosing to die as a human than live as a God. In a universe where self-worth is almost exclusive judged on power level, Jean held her humanity so dear she was willing to give up everything she loved. The strong-willed redhead is an integral part of the X-Men's legacy.

5. Rogue

First Appearance: Avengers Annual #10
Powers: Absorb powers and memory through skin contact, flight

Rogue is the perfect example of why the Xavier Institute must exist. Any skin-to-skin contact causes Rogue to absorb the powers and memories of whomever she touches. Though Xavier's school never taught Rogue how to control her powers, it has helped teach her to deal with a world she can never truly touch. Long ago, Rogue was a villain, who absorbed Ms. Marvel's powers before being brought to the X-Men by her surrogate mother, Mystique. She's grown to become a vital member of the X-Men and proof that Xavier's methods can work and are, in fact, necessary.

4. Wolverine

First Appearance: Incredible Hulk #180
Powers: Healing factor, six adamantium claws capable of cutting through almost any material, heightened senses, immobilizing cigar breath

Though he may have become oversaturated, Wolverine is no less one of the greatest of all X-Men. Logan is a loner by nature and a man fighting to keep his animal instincts from controlling his actions. He argues regularly with his fellow X-Men and leaves the team often to pursue his own personal agenda. Yet his support of the X-Men rarely, if ever, wavers. He may not be a team player, but Logan has the best interests of the X-Men at heart. Despite his wandering ways, Wolverine has been one of the most reliable X-Men over the years.

3. Kitty Pryde

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #129
Powers: Phasing

Most mutants come to Xavier's having experienced great trauma and difficulty in their youth. Kitty arrived as an innocent with the seemingly innocuous power to turn intangible. She is the mutant everyman, the common girl turned superhero. Marvel has attempted to replicate Kitty Pryde on several occasions, most notably with Jubilee, but there's something special about Kitty that puts her above the rest. She's strong-willed, creative and fiercely loyal. Just as her pet dragon, Lockheed, became instantly attached to Kitty, we were hooked early on. Who could have guessed long ago that she would become one of the most endearing characters in the X-Men Universe?

2. Prof X

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #1
Powers: The world's most powerful telepath (currently de-powered)

It's Xavier's Dream the X-Men follow. Without Xavier, there would be no X-Men and no unified opposition to Magneto. He is, to put it bluntly, a prophet of the new age. His students, his followers, may interpret the meaning of his words and dream differently, but Xavier's core belief has remained intact through an entire generation of mutants. The Dream has grown to outpace the man. Xavier has lost faith in himself several times, abandoning his team for sometimes selfish reasons. While that can be acceptable for followers, a man like Xavier must maintain a strong front and never walk away from his children.

1. Cyclops

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #1
Powers: High-intensity, continuous optic blast

The student has become greater than the master. That's the nature of the world and so to is it with the X-Men Universe as Scott Summers has surpassed Xavier to become the greatest X-Man. A heavy burden was placed on his shoulders as a young man. He was chosen to lead a team of mutants on a crusade that would likely determine Homo Superior's place in the world. He's lost two wives, reunited with his space pirate father, discovered two lost brothers, fought beside both a son and daughter from alternate futures, and defended The Dream as a knight might protect the Holy Grail. Through all of this, he's still standing.

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Post by Hound » Mon May 22, 2006 5:29 pm

So. Thoughts?

I know Brend will love Scotty being at number 1.

I am glad to see Kitty Pryde so high up. She isn't your typical X-man and that is part of the reason I love so much.

I am very happy that there is no Gambit. I hate Gambit. I would rather eat my own scrotum than like Gambit.
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Post by Ozz » Mon May 22, 2006 5:48 pm

Hound wrote:I am glad to see Kitty Pryde so high up.
Word. :)

It's nice to see Guido, Madrox and Chamber getting on the list. Mine would have Pete Wisdom, too. :o And Cannonball. And Havok somewhere higher.

Generally, I'm surprised that Wolverine isn't on the top of every X-related list.

They cocked up a bit with first appearances.
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Post by Best First » Mon May 22, 2006 6:03 pm

Hound wrote:
I am glad to see Kitty Pryde so high up. She isn't your typical X-man and that is part of the reason I love so much.
Double word.
I am very happy that there is no Gambit. I hate Gambit. I would rather eat my own scrotum than like Gambit.
Triple word.

Although i would rather not see Rogue there either, she's bloody dull these days, ditto for Psylocke.

Oh, and Havok as well, he's a whiney prick. I really don't like Havok.

Naturally i would replace them with Maggot, Cecillia Reyes and Marrow. That would be great.

what?

oh.

Actually i'd probably go for Wisdom, Cannonball and, hmm, oh my Jubilee actually instead of those three.

Collosus should be higher i reckon.
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Post by Hound » Mon May 22, 2006 6:23 pm

I was especially disapointed to see that Lifeguard, Slipstream and Thunderbird didn't make the list.

Did Banshee get a sympathy vote? He never really did much apart from in Gen X.

Also, I would have liked to see Dazzler in there. I love Dazzler despite the fact she has never done anything of any real benefit to anyone.
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Post by The Last Autobot » Mon May 22, 2006 7:26 pm

I like Kitty and Nightcrawler being so high and Emma not quite so.

I think AOA Sabretooth is waaay more high than he deserves.
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Post by Best First » Mon May 22, 2006 7:53 pm

Agree on Sabes.

I'd quite like to see the Exiles incarnations of Blink & Morph in there as well...
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Post by Ozz » Mon May 22, 2006 8:14 pm

Blink from AoA is 18th, and I thought it's the same one that is in Exiles?

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Post by Brendocon » Mon May 22, 2006 8:50 pm

Ozz wrote:Blink from AoA is 18th, and I thought it's the same one that is in Exiles?
It is.

Cyclops can go [composite word including 'f*ck'] himself.

With something sharp and rusty.
Grrr. Argh.

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Post by KingMob » Mon May 22, 2006 8:54 pm

Meh to some of that list. AoA Sabertooth? Archangel just scraping the top 10? Prof X isn't really that bom-diggity either IMHO.
Like was said, nice to see Shadowcat up there.

But I preferred this guy's top 50 Marvel chars. More entertaining read as well:
http://anw.livejournal.com/302697.html

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Post by Brendocon » Mon May 22, 2006 9:12 pm

A lot of them aren't even X-Men. I mean it says right there in the blurb for Madrox that he was invited to be but turned them down. Ergo he's not an X-Men, ergo he's disqualified from the list.

What they mean is "Top 25 Mutants Who've Been Part of an X-Team" - which is something completely different.

And Cyclops can still go [composite word including 'f*ck'] himself.
Grrr. Argh.

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Post by Best First » Mon May 22, 2006 9:32 pm

Brend says this but spends his weekends walking round with a hairband over his eyes yelling "Beast, execute formation x-alpha-27".
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Post by Brendocon » Mon May 22, 2006 9:38 pm

Best First wrote:Brend says this but spends his weekends walking round with a hairband over his eyes yelling "Beast, execute formation x-alpha-27".
Look, just because you spend your weekends wearing masks and screaming orders to a Beast, don't assume the rest of us do.

And it's Z-beta-35
Grrr. Argh.

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Post by Optimus Prime Rib » Tue May 23, 2006 12:30 am

such hate for Gambit.. Ok I admit it, I wish he wasnt such a waste of a potentially cool character.. And NO we dont walk around calling everyone "Chere" around here in Louisiana. Though we DO tend to hit on everything that moves..
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Post by sprunkner » Tue May 23, 2006 2:06 am

I hate Cyclops. I was so happy when he died. He's such a whiner.

Wolverine is and always has been the best X-man. Sure, he's overused. But when he can be the central figure in the movie and make it work, it's obvious that the appeal was well-deserved.

And Magneto is much cooler than 18. He's complex yet can be communicated in one well-spoken line: "You're a God among insects. Don't let anybody tell you different." He's overused, too, but just because he's so cool.

Magneto is an example of a character who gets a great death every couple of years and then has it all undermined by coming back. Adjectiveless 3 and the finale of the Xorn thing were really good, but he's still around. Sigh...

Chere.
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Post by Best First » Tue May 23, 2006 4:47 am

People who don't 'get' Cyclops:

*should be trodden on like insects
*probably voted for bush
*fancy arcee
*have tiny dicks
*really, really tiny
*smell like ham
*cheap, cheap ham

come one you losers, he's fricking fundamental. Joss Whedon says so and everything. Get it, or get some surgery for that ham smell. You wish you were Cyclops.
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Post by sprunkner » Tue May 23, 2006 6:02 am

:cry:

People who like Cyclops:

*make love every night to a homemade naked picture of arcee
*then make love to a naked picture of bush (not homemade)
*that is, when they don't mistake their dick for a plain MnM
*and try to put it in a trail mix
*with ham
*and they're robots. they're not even real.
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Post by KingMob » Tue May 23, 2006 7:30 am

sprunkner wrote:People who like Cyclops:

*make love every night to a homemade naked picture of arcee
*then make love to a naked picture of bush (not homemade)
*that is, when they don't mistake their dick for a plain MnM
*and try to put it in a trail mix
*with ham
*and they're robots. they're not even real.
Hey, I'm not a robot! :x

Cyclops is bettterer than alla youse and it's sad that you just can't admit that you all obviously like holding clear red plastic up to your eyes and shouting ZARK! in your spare time, but #1? And whoever wrote that hasn't read any X-Men comics with Professor X in them since 1994.

damn, this list is messed up.

Emma Frost for teh win.

edit: OPR, check this out: Why Gambit Sucks
Fear the Richard Gere Factor.

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Post by Obfleur » Tue May 23, 2006 8:38 am

When I was reading Ultimte X-Men I thought to myself while reading what Gambit said "holy ****. This is some annoying ****. Why?"
Can't believe I'm still here.

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Post by Best First » Tue May 23, 2006 2:04 pm

sprunkner wrote::cry:

People who like Cyclops:

*make love every night to a homemade naked picture of arcee
*then make love to a naked picture of bush (not homemade)
*that is, when they don't mistake their dick for a plain MnM
*and try to put it in a trail mix
*with ham
*and they're robots. they're not even real.
aw, you just nicked my idea and made it not as funny.

which is exactly what a Cyclops hater would do, because without a soul you can have no gift for mirth.

King Mobs links rock. That bit about Captain Britain is stone cold genius.
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Post by Stormwolf » Tue May 23, 2006 2:14 pm

OMFG, Gambit is not on that list, he's probably the best X-man ever :roll:
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Post by Best First » Tue May 23, 2006 2:17 pm

KingMob wrote: Why Gambit Sucks
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Post by sprunkner » Tue May 23, 2006 4:57 pm

Best First wrote:
aw, you just nicked my idea and made it not as funny.

which is exactly what a Cyclops hater would do, because without a soul you can have no gift for mirth.
I have a gift for kicking your @$$ with both eyes closed. Can Cyclops do that?
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Post by Optimus Prime Rib » Tue May 23, 2006 6:03 pm

I didnt say Gambit was cool. I said he was POTENTIALY cool. He just got it up the ol pooper on the writing.

Maybe its because I grew up in Louisiana, I really REALLY wanted a good southern character.
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Post by Best First » Tue May 23, 2006 6:21 pm

sprunkner wrote:
Best First wrote:
aw, you just nicked my idea and made it not as funny.

which is exactly what a Cyclops hater would do, because without a soul you can have no gift for mirth.
I have a gift for kicking your @$$ with both eyes closed. Can Cyclops do that?
alas, the lack of soul also means you lack a gift for bravado.

poor, soulless Scotty Summers hater.
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Post by Brendocon » Tue May 23, 2006 7:55 pm

Best First wrote:come one you losers, he's fricking fundamental. Joss Whedon says so and everything.
The Joss Whedon who just put out an issue with the basic theme of "Cyclops is really really rubbish at everything, and the only reason he was ever given the role of leader was because he was rubbish at everything else and Chucky X felt sorry for him"?

Or the Joss Whedon who admits to not understanding science? Because, scientifically, Scott Summers is as dull as cardboard.

Grey cardboard.

With a picture of John Major on it.

On ITV3.
You wish you were Cyclops.
No ta. I like having a personality.
Grrr. Argh.

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Post by Best First » Tue May 23, 2006 8:02 pm

You could have been a bit more discerning about which one.

Plus, disparaging a character doesn't mean they aren't central to a myh, it just questions where they fit into it.

Cyclops 'dullness' is part of what makes him interesting, he's repressed as hell and has nothing else in his life except a questionable dream.
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Post by Brendocon » Tue May 23, 2006 8:10 pm

So, he's dull, repressed and arguably deluded.

And only leads because he's crap at everything else, despite there being far more qualified candidates.

I think I'm entitled to hate him, based off that.
Grrr. Argh.

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Post by Best First » Tue May 23, 2006 8:17 pm

Brendocon wrote:So, he's dull, repressed and arguably deluded.

And only leads because he's crap at everything else, despite there being far more qualified candidates.

I think I'm entitled to hate him, based off that.
or feel a sense of kinship, eh?

ho ho ho.
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Post by Brendocon » Tue May 23, 2006 8:23 pm

Green.
Giant.

I'd have no objection of kinship to somebody who was doing both Jean and Emma...

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