I like comics, How 'bout you?

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:46 pm

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2012 ... s/1624319/

I'm shocked this isn't being accompanied by a foil wraparound cover variant by Rob Liefeld and a free Pearl Jam CD.

Although I must admit, I am interested to see exactly what Slott has set up as being SO horrible in 700 that Spidey would "go dark" or whatever the bulls*** marketing is. I mean, being unmasked, having Aunt May die/get shot, having his girlfriend die, being told he's a clone and then being replaced, having his marriage be torn apart by the devil? Been there, done that. Thanks to the recently completed in continuity Spider-Men, he's even seen a world where he's totally f***ing dead and some kid has replaced him.

Honestly, the only thing that would make me go, "Wow Slott and Marvel, that IS some balls" is if they just straight up killed him and replaced him. And Editor Wacker apparently is being coy about this possibility although obviously this is "lying to sell more comics" until proven otherwise.

EDIT: According to the Internet, the smart money is on Doc Ock somehow pulling a body switcheroo, which would explain new Spidey's toe claws, new goggle-ish eyes, and use of the word "superior." And then they'll bring Peter back in a bit I'm sure. Rinse and repeat when cash and media attention are needed.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:38 pm

Booo. To be honest, I'd noticed that they hadn't announced a Spidey replacement and was hoping they were going to just off him or something.

Not that I dislike him (that would be crazy)... it's just... where the hell do you go with him? There's only so many iterations of the same old stuff you can do, and it's painfully clear that veering too far from the formula just results in snapping back painfully a couple of years later.

Uncanny Avengers off to a decent start.

AvsX Consequences just makes me want to set Wolverine on fire even more. Would it kill somebody to just mention that if Stark hadn't built that gizmo, none of it would have happened? I mean I'd love to see how the likes of Captain America or Wolverine would have handled being the Phoenix so differently.

In other news, really enjoying Brian Wood's continuity-ignoring X-Men stuff.

Predabot wrote:Us true fans

Go [composite word including 'f*ck'] yourself.

Me getting my Creeds mixed up in no way makes you better than anybody. It just means that I spend seven years not really paying attention and got a family tree a bit muddled. Which is why I was looking for clarification... instead I get you being a cock. Thanks.

Post by **Best First** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:28 am

Interesting fact - it has been scientifically proven that anyone who refers to themself as a true fan is all of the following;

- a ****
- delusional
- online

I gave up on Marvel U Spidey after OMD. The challenge seems to simply be to retain a core concept that works and keep it interesting.

If that doesn't work - give up.

It's interesting that this doesn't seem to be as big an issue for other solo heroes, with the possible exception of Super-Man.

Cos changing the core concept, as you say, it fails evey time.

And as the Ultimate line has now proven you can actually remove PP and still have a fantastic Spider-man comic.

Quite liked Uncanny A - felt a little short for a kick off issue but great ending.

That said, both in that book and AVX: Consequences... jesus, who the **** was St Charles Xavier? The Chuck X i knew was someone who went off the rails years ago, and compromised his morals while Scott Summers was still being fiddled with in the Orphanage by Jimmy Sinister. And the did it again, and again and again.

Any why is Logan the guardian of the dream all of a sudden, what about Hank or Bobby or Ororo or Kitty?

Not Gambit obviously.

Oh god i am talking about them like they are real...

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:50 am

Best First wrote:Oh god i am talking about them like they are real...

I've had to stop and metaphorically punch myself in the brain several times over the past few issues because of that.

Really hard to buy Wolverine getting up on his high horse about Scott being a bit right wing when he's still traipsing about with X-Force.

With them keeping flashing back to Chuck and Wolvey's first meeting, it feels more and more like they're drawing a line under the 60s stuff and trying to pretend that "proper" X-Men started with GS1 when Logan joined the team... and that all this is just the natural progression of a story-arc that started back then.

Which would be fine and everything, if it weren't completely disrespectful to everything else.

As much as I traditionally dislike Summers, he is the X-Men... whilst Logan is just some third-rate Hulk villain who they slung in to pad out the roster.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:12 am

Here's a fun little personal tidbit. I work at four different elementary schools. I have roughly 120 students per school. Which means that, every time one of them so much as coughs in my general direction, I get a cold. My wife, on the other hand, works for the UN. Which means that she gets visitors to her office from countries that I didn't know existed and might no longer exist by the time I post this. So while I'm pretty sure my body has built up an immunity to any major illness, I wind up with crappy little colds on a all but constant basis.

So, during some of my downtime, I've been reading of the comics I've been slacking on lately. And...I really don't care for what I've been reading. I APPRECIATE a lot of it. It seems like some gone but not forgotten part of me would have enjoyed it, in another time and place. All three Transformers series, for example. I disliked a lot of what Mike Costa wrote, and don't dislike this.

I read a little bit of the New 52 and didn't make it more than an issue or two into anything. I was never the biggest DC guy, but waving away every bit of continuity that has existed since I was born... I didn't care for One More Day, and DC seemed to make that story a company wide model.

I caught up on Amazing Spider-Man, a series that I've collected, in one form or another, since 1992, and enjoyed the hell out of it...right up until a few issues ago. What the hell was that Alpha thing? I remember Alpha's introduction made mainstream news. Then he just went back to nothing at the end of a three issue arc. And was he a fifteen year old kid taking sexual advantage of his fame? Realistic or not, that's creepy as hell and I don't get who in the readership it's appealing to.

But speaking of who I don't understand who the stories are for...the Ultimate Universe. I kind of stopped reading a lot of Ultimate stuff after Magneto killed off more people than most Judge Dredd epics. That story where the Blob ATE the Wasp before Magneto killed Wolverine only to get decapitated by Cyclops who, himself, then get a bullet in the face...kind of left me WAY cold. The Ultimate Universe isn't Marvel Zombies. It had been around for almost ten years. Nearly every major player in the regular Marvel Universe had been introduced within five years of the original runs.

But I did want to read the Death of Spider-Man. So I picked up some of what I'd need to enjoy that. I get that death in comics isn't necessarily permanent. Or, you know, ever. But the Ultimate Universe has been pretty good with keeping the dead buried. Except, apparently, for Gwen Stacy, which just makes no kind of sense. But anyway.

I don't know what exactly I expected out of the end of Ultimate Spider-Man. I never really expected the character to last as long as he did. Hell, I never expected the LINE to last as long as it has. I figured that, once the line "ended" there'd be some little "but that's a story for another time. It. Never. Ends." type of finale.

What I DIDN'T expect was for Peter Parker to get shot in the chest only to slowly succumb to a combination of blunt trauma and blood loss on his front lawn in front of literally all of his friends and family.

THAT is not the end I'd have wanted. I can not imagine the kind of person who WOULD have wanted that. Who has been reading this comic for a decade thinking, "man, you know what'd be great? If this sixteen year old kid got a ****ing bullet in the stomach. That'd be rad!"

But, I guess whatever Marvel is doing, it's selling. I just read that Astonishing X-Men sold like 300,000 copies. Which sounds really impressive, except that...it didn't sell that many copies to fans. It sold that many copies to retailers. And there were 20 different covers. Some of which were incentive covers that you could only get if you ordered like 50 regular covers. Most of which will eventually wind up being given away for free (Halloween is coming up, after all) or lingering in quarter bins. I can only guess as to how many unique readers that works out to, but I'd bet it's less than 1/3rd, or 100,000 people. Which, for the first issue of only the most recent major relaunch is...pretty low.

This concludes this epic rant on the state of a few comics I read while nursing a bad cough and runny nose. Thanks for reading. Looking forward to checking out Uncanny X-Force and catching up on the Boys.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:24 pm

Professor Smooth wrote:But, I guess whatever Marvel is doing, it's selling. I just read that Astonishing X-Men sold like 300,000 copies. [...] Which, for the first issue of only the most recent major relaunch is...pretty low.

Do you mean Uncanny Avengers? Because I'm fairly certain you don't mean Astonishing X-Men.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:37 pm

Brendocon wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:But, I guess whatever Marvel is doing, it's selling. I just read that Astonishing X-Men sold like 300,000 copies. [...] Which, for the first issue of only the most recent major relaunch is...pretty low.
Do you mean Uncanny Avengers? Because I'm fairly certain you don't mean Astonishing X-Men.

Yes. That is what I mean. Man, Astonishing X-Men was great. Is that still great? Or going?

Post by **Best First** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:50 pm

I think Ultimate Spidey has been more or less consistently brilliant - i think you have to be trying quite hard to take from his story the style of his death as the main thing - the point was he was a hero and kept going until he couldn't. Kinda hard to portray that any way other than him taking some major damage.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:07 pm

Professor Smooth wrote:Yes. That is what I mean. Man, Astonishing X-Men was great. Is that still great? Or going?

The current Marjorie Liu stuff is quite decent. Though it's in that weird "not entirely sure where it fits in the larger continuity" bubble.

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:16 pm

Brendocon wrote: Go **** yourself.

Me getting my Creeds mixed up in no way makes you better than anybody. It just means that I spend seven years not really paying attention and got a family tree a bit muddled. Which is why I was looking for clarification... instead I get you being a cock. Thanks.

Kind Sir, my post was in gest.

Alas, 'tis good to see that you have yet to lose your edge.

Keep up the good work! ^^

Best First wrote:Interesting fact - it has been scientifically proven that anyone who refers to themself as a true fan is all of the following;

- a C*CK
- delusional
- online

Why do people keep saying that as if it's a bad thing...?

I gave up on Marvel U Spidey after OMD. The challenge seems to simply be to retain a core concept that works and keep it interesting.

If that doesn't work - give up.

'Tis funny tho', but I think the equal amount of peeps had given up on Spidey for many, many other reasons, long, long before you and OMD.

The same amount of peeps, actually a bit more, came back when he got a soft-reboot with BND. Simple, nice, enjoyable storytelling of Spidey being Spidey, brought back a lot of people.

Tell you the truth, I felt OMD was a great story, up until the ending. Excellent art and a heavy destiny-filled atmosphere. I wasn't none too interested in giving the new reign a shot, but when I did, I've enjoyed it immensely.

Sales-wise, Spidey was/is actually back up, and sometimes higher, than before OMD btw. I'd say there's ample reason for this.

Brendocon wrote: The current Marjorie Liu stuff is quite decent. Though it's in that weird "not entirely sure where it fits in the larger continuity" bubble.

No it's not. It's terrible.

I'm not sure why Marvel felt Liu should do this book, because pretty much everything I've read of hers has been very, very jersey in quality.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:25 am

Predabot wrote:
Sales-wise, Spidey was/is actually back up, and sometimes higher, than before OMD btw. I'd say there's ample reason for this.

One of the most ample reasons is multiple covers. Up until recently, there were very rarely variety covers for Spider-Man comics (excluding some of the typical 90's stuff where there'd be the regular cover and then he die-cut, holofoil polybagged versions w/ animation cell and FLEER collector's card). With the exception of variants for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th printings.

Now, it seems that every few months, there's three different covers and sometimes one of those absurd incentive covers, where a retailer can order one copy for every 15, 25, 50, etc normal covers.

So, when we see a big headline "AMAZING SPIDER-MAN SELLS 250,000 COPIES!" It doesn't mean that 250,000 people bought and read the book. It means that retailers ordered that many copies. A lot of fans bought all (or example) three regular covers. And a few hundred (or thousand, I guess) paid $50 for the incentive cover, leaving however many thousands of regular covers sitting on shelves or relegated to the discount bins.

Sales are up to where they were before OMD. But readership is down.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:46 am

Got Saga volume one today!

Holy crap there's angels having naughty sex!

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:26 pm

My comic shop owner strongarmed me into buying vol 1 of Saga with the promise that if I think it's anything less than superb he'd give me my money back. And it was cheap anyway.

Not read it yet though. It's gone into the pile of other stuff I haven't read yet. It's a depressingly comprehensive pile. I buy too much stuff. I should probably give up work or something so I have time to catch up.

Predabot wrote:No it's not. It's terrible.

You do realise that everything you've ever posted makes your opinion worthless, right?

very, very jersey in quality.

Things like that, for example. You've just likened comic scripts to a small island off the coast of France. Or a jumper. I'm not sure which. The lack of capitalisation makes me think it's the jumper.

Her stories keep you warm when it's chilly.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:37 pm

Dude. I think the only comic I will read faster than the next issue of Saga is MTMTE.

This thing is so amazing, and aimed EXACTLY at my demographic--adults who looked forward to, then hated the Star Wars prequel.

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:43 pm

Professor Smooth wrote: One of the most ample reasons is multiple covers. Up until recently, there were very rarely variety covers for Spider-Man comics (excluding some of the typical 90's stuff where there'd be the regular cover and then he die-cut, holofoil polybagged versions w/ animation cell and FLEER collector's card). With the exception of variants for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th printings.

Now, it seems that every few months, there's three different covers and sometimes one of those absurd incentive covers, where a retailer can order one copy for every 15, 25, 50, etc normal covers.

So, when we see a big headline "AMAZING SPIDER-MAN SELLS 250,000 COPIES!" It doesn't mean that 250,000 people bought and read the book. It means that retailers ordered that many copies. A lot of fans bought all (or example) three regular covers. And a few hundred (or thousand, I guess) paid $50 for the incentive cover, leaving however many thousands of regular covers sitting on shelves or relegated to the discount bins.

Sales are up to where they were before OMD. But readership is down.

It's true that sales are down, but that is all across the board, the entire industry has shrunk. Every single book is lessened.

I won't try to defend the alternate incentive covers. All I can say is that they're pretty much everywhere across the board. Everywhere from Indie-books to the Big 2.

In fact, I think it was a certain fellow, well-known on this forum, formerly of the industry, that was among the premiere INDIE-publishers that started the whole incentive craze, back in the early 2000's.

His name starts with P, and ends with EE.

Dynamite ( anybody remember Red Sonja?? 15 covers for 1-3...), Devils Due, Dreamwave, these were some of the early adopters of this, they popularized it. Showing that all of a sudden, indie-publishers could get good sales again.

At the time, Marvel/DC where pretty much ONLY doing the second, third -printing covers, but lo and behold... soon they hopped on the band-wagon.

One of the reasons there are so god-damn many incentive covers for Uncanny Avengers, is that stuff like this has become so pervasive, from the grass-roots and upwards, that books like Godzilla and Walking Dead are currently the record-holders of the most incentive covers!

It's insane. I suppose I agree with you.

But Marvel can't stop just like that, can't hop off that fine, fine band-wagon, when everybody else is already milking the h*ll out of it.

-----

Brendocon wrote: Not read it yet though. It's gone into the pile of other stuff I haven't read yet. It's a depressingly comprehensive pile. I buy too much stuff. I should probably give up work or something so I have time to catch up.

Might I inquire as to the nature of the contents of yonder pile, by chance?

You do realise that everything you've ever posted makes your opinion worthless, right?

Hmm, I suppose I've given it a glint of a thought now and then. Still, more or less equal to your own opinion isn't too bad, don't you think? =)

You've just likened comic scripts to a small island off the coast of France. Or a jumper. I'm not sure which. The lack of capitalisation makes me think it's the jumper.

Yep, obviously the jumper.

And yes, I hate jumpers. They're all itchy and scratchy! >:<

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:15 pm

So we're all reading Bedlam, right?

Post by **Best First** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:47 pm

wassat?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:42 pm

Bedlam. New series on Image by Nick Spencer and Riley Rossmo.

Jumbo sized first issue came out last week.

Looks promising.

It's about a reformed homicidal maniac.

It's a little bit Deadpool if Deadpool were actually a criminal genius.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:43 pm

Just read the first Masterworks trade of Amazing Spidey.

The medium has, er, grown a lot since the 60s, hasn't it?

Especially liked the story where Parker picks a fight with the Fantastic Four just because he fancied the Torch's bird and felt like being a bit of a prick. Mental.

Also finally did Red Son. Clever. Though didn't really buy into Comrade Batman that much.

bumblemusprime · Post by **bumblemusprime** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:25 pm

Brendocon wrote: Especially liked the story where Parker picks a fight with the Fantastic Four just because he fancied the Torch's bird and felt like being a bit of a prick. Mental.

I knew we needed a properly British sentence. Something was slipping around here.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:38 am

GUYS.

ASM #698 leaked.

Must-read. And you must read it sloooow. Don't skip to the end.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:02 am

Would love to read it. Wouldn't even feel guilty. Marvel's already got my money for the collection.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:08 pm

Professor Smooth wrote:Would love to read it. Wouldn't even feel guilty. Marvel's already got my money for the collection.

I could sit and work out when it comes out for reals in your time zone, or I could just send you a link.

So check your PMs.

(god i haven't typed that in a long time).

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:23 pm

Just done some web fu and seen the reveal page.

So, basically what Shanti alluded to at the top of this page.

Brave.

Though if he's got Peter's memories and he's in Peter's body, then it'll be easily fixed later on by having the old personality reassert itself and Otto be relegated to a whispering voice in the back of his mind.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:07 pm

Well that's that then. And for the record, this HAS been done before, by an also old Vulture temporarily in the storylines right before the Clone Saga.

KingMob · Post by **KingMob** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:19 pm

For me, it's not so much that it's been done before - what hasn't, really - nor that we were able to work it out that it was a possibility - we're not idiots, it's a serial medium with thinking time inbetween installments - it was the way it was written. Such a slow, creeping build of wrongness, then the "I did it 35 minutes ago" style reveal. Freaky and horrible, such a total invasion.

Plus, there's still 2 issues to go before 700, which will have another twist.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:00 pm

Unless the twist will be a lack of a twist. HAHA! Double bluff!

Either that or Otto has taken over Ben Reilly.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:34 am

Things what I haz read recently:

Runaways. First series. Had only previously read the first trade, but have now done the next two as well. Lovely and yay, though don't quite buy the parents not recognising the writing on the note. It was hand-written, right? They didn't have time/opportunity to have printed it?

BUT ANYWAY.

Also finally got round to reading Wanted. Er, yeah. Not really sure what I make of that, to be honest. Full of great ideas, but mostly relegated to background stuff whilst we concentrate on how great it is to be a violent murderous rapist.

Just started Iron Man Extremis. When's this set continuity wise? As people seem to not know who he is. I'd venture that it's outside continuity if I didn't know Gillen hadn't picked up on the strand. Did his identity get magicked away from public knowledge after Civil War?

Not sold on the art, though have only done the first issue. Never really been a fan of that "photo-realistic" style.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:52 pm

I really enjoyed All New X-Men 1. I still hate the premise behind it, but I think Bendis could set up something interesting.

It was nice to read Beast and not hate the hypocritical, sanctimonious ****. It's been a while.

Also: No Wolverine. Bonus points awarded.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:46 pm

Yeah, promising so far. Though Storm's hair-trigger, er, storminess was a bit odd given the dialogue.

Conversely I think I made it about four pages into #1 of X-Men Legacy. Legion does not need his own title.