I had no idea people in Britain were so religious?

[Best First]

Why is it so surprising to some that the majority of the country, nay, the world follow a religion and believe in a supreme being?

i think its mainly due to the vast amount of evidence and rational that runs contrary to th enotion that humanity is a central strut and focus of some divine being's plan. I'd also say that its religions that support this notion basis that some people here take issue with.

Granted, many here have called this delusional, but nevertheless, the godless are still a very small minority overall.

that's always proved a good indicator of who is correct on such matters hasn't it?

not to mention that the majority you are using to lend credence to religion all don't believe in each other's gods...

I made my appointment with a pyschiatrist after taking your advice, but he was still at church.

oh my, how clever

[Impactor returns 2.0]

I think if the questionair was re-worded to are you a 'practising' christian the answers would be very different, because its a sodding fact that all the ppl who say they are christians are not in church each sunday as there are not enough seats!

Personaly I dont know anyone whos religous - its dying with todays generation of kids and a good thing to, religon is the biggest evil on earth.

[Yaya]

i think its mainly due to the vast amount of evidence and rational that runs contrary to th enotion that humanity is a central strut and focus of some divine being's plan.

Oh, you have evidence of this? Great, let's hear it because nobody has been able to disprove a God's existence to me yet.

that's always proved a good indicator of who is correct on such matters hasn't it?

No, my point here is that some here, maybe yourself, think that over half the world is delusional and in need of psychiatric evaluation for believing in a God. That's quite a claim to make of billions upon billions of people, because someone who is experiencing delusions is in laymans terms crazy. But if you want to make it, hey, you have your belief I suppose. Just make sure you send Morpheus to deliver us all from the Matrix we're living in so we can all hang out in your little world, the true world with you, Neo, and his pals.

[Yaya]

Personaly I dont know anyone whos religous - its dying with todays generation of kids and a good thing to, religon is the biggest evil on earth.

I disagree. Religion itself is not to blame. Most religions teach peace, and yet, in the name of religion wars are fought and people die.

Now if someone actually followed their respective religion that teach peace, people wouldn't be killing each other.

Therefore, its not religion itself, but the way religion is distorted and used as an excuse to futher one's own selfish political or financial ends.

The evils are greed, selfishness, injustice, and a sense of unaccountability. Unfortunately, these will not die with today's generation of kids, so guess what?

The evils of which you speak will go one forever.

[Professor Smooth]

i think its mainly due to the vast amount of evidence and rational that runs contrary to th enotion that humanity is a central strut and focus of some divine being's plan.

Oh, you have evidence of this? Great, let's hear it because nobody has been able to disprove a God's existence to me yet.

I have never seen any evidence that would suggest that you're not a child molester. Of course, that doesn't mean that I automatically assume that you are.

[Yaya]

I have never seen any evidence that would suggest that you're not a child molester. Of course, that doesn't mean that I automatically assume that you are.

No, it doesn't. But that doesn't make it impossible now, does it? I mean, you just don't know, right. So your not knowing hardly stands as proof that I'm not.

[Professor Smooth]

I have never seen any evidence that would suggest that you're not a child molester. Of course, that doesn't mean that I automatically assume that you are.

No, it doesn't. But that doesn't make it impossible now, does it? I mean, you just don't know, right. So your not knowing hardly stands as proof that I'm not.

Well played, sir. Well played.

[Denyer]

Why is it so surprising to some that the majority of the country, nay, the world follow a religion and believe in a supreme being?

Why is is so surprising to anyone that billions of people are delusional? We're wired such that we identify patterns, so why would it be surprising people look for them? Trouble is, "identify" isn't accurate -- we construct meaning rather than necessarily find it.

that doesn't make it impossible now, does it?

The idea that something might not be impossible is a shoddy basis for law.

Which is all that matters, practically speaking. It doesn't matter if Arthur thinks there are fairies at the bottom of his garden. It's when Arthur votes in a governor who passes a law that no-one is allowed to use a shovel in their garden because they might hurt fairies.

Moving away from analogy, he votes that no-one be allowed to keep and slaughter cows, because he considers cows sacred. He votes that no-one be allowed be allowed to puree embryos because he believes them equivalent to adult human beings.

Delusion rapidly becomes justication for dictating to others.

[Best First]

who ever said anything about psychiatric evaluations either?

what? no-one? i see.

Beliveing someone to be wrong doesn't mean that you think they are damaged in some way, just that they have come to the wrong conclusions.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

Personaly I dont know anyone whos religous - its dying with todays generation of kids and a good thing to, religon is the biggest evil on earth.

I disagree. Religion itself is not to blame. Most religions teach peace, and yet, in the name of religion wars are fought and people die.

Now if someone actually followed their respective religion that teach peace, people wouldn't be killing each other.

Therefore, its not religion itself, but the way religion is distorted and used as an excuse to futher one's own selfish political or financial ends.

The evils are greed, selfishness, injustice, and a sense of unaccountability. Unfortunately, these will not die with today's generation of kids, so guess what?

The evils of which you speak will go one forever.

and thus, wouldnt it just be better to not have religon and be 'good' in generall like i am without needing to follow a stuipid idea.

thus religon is crap.

Look at me, im not evil and i dont need religon, because with it, ppl are dicks!

[Bouncelot]

I think if the questionair was re-worded to are you a 'practising' christian the answers would be very different, because its a sodding fact that all the ppl who say they are christians are not in church each sunday as there are not enough seats!

Personaly I dont know anyone whos religous - its dying with todays generation of kids

Not true. Whilst the traditional Christian institutions of the Western World are in decline, there is plenty of growth amongst many churches - such as mine. And, of course, Christianity is growing fast in lots of other places around the world.

and a good thing to, religon is the biggest evil on earth.

Utter rubbish. Big business, for example, is doing far far more evil stuff in the world today than religion is.

and thus, wouldnt it just be better to not have religon and be 'good' in generall like i am without needing to follow a stuipid idea.

thus religon is crap.

Look at me, im not evil and i dont need religon, because with it, ppl are dicks!

So, you don't know anybody who is religious, and yet you're prepared to call all religious people dicks? Let me give you the example of a friend of mine from church. Before he was a Christian, he was the sort of person who would put a knife up to his then-wife's throat - very nasty. Today, because he became a Christian, he is a really nice, gentle, bloke, who loves having a laugh and hasn't any kind of violent streak left. Why call people dicks for following something that helps them become better people? Would you prefer it if those of us who have become better and nicer as a direct result of our faith had stayed nastier?

[Best First]

i find the notion that you need to accept a mandate from a mythical being to be a better person somewhat sickening.

[The Last Autobot]

Fanatism is whats wrong, wheter it be Religion, Money or even Tfs.

On the othr hand, whatever makes you a better person is right for me.

Even if you believe in the AllMighty Noodle if that makes you better people is just fine.

[Impactor returns 2.0]

I only need my brain to work out right and wrong I dont need religon.

For all the good it might do ppl die in the name of religon every day.

thus its for stupid ppl.

[Denyer]

Would you prefer it if those of us who have become better and nicer as a direct result of our faith had stayed nastier?

Not at all, and I'm thinking mainly of Seneca the Younger -- religion is useful, for all that it's an attempt to bring all questions to one answer. It's what people do that has bearing on others, not necessarily why they do it.

I'd prefer it if people didn't claim the stories that inspire them were factually true in spite of most evidence to the contrary.

And I'd prefer it if people realised the power of stories -- if you can get someone to do good things by telling them that an invisible guy wants them to and that it's okay to do, you can get them to do bad by the same inductive method.

Honesty and practicality are preferred. Doing "good" because it leads to a better environment for everyone, including oneself.

[Bouncelot]

i find the notion that you need to accept a mandate from a mythical being to be a better person somewhat sickening.

Well, when said "mythical being" has talked to you and been responsible for a whole range of great things in your life, it makes a lot of sense to believe that His way of running your life is better than your own rather pitiful attempts (that's a personal perspective rather than an accusation of anybody here being pitiful at running their life).

I only need my brain to work out right and wrong I dont need religon.

Ah, but you and I might come to completely different conclusions about what's right and wrong based solely on what we think about things. And, of course, God's standards of morality don't match what any human would come up with on their own (I reckon that would still be true even if I'm wrong about the Bible being the word of God).

For all the good it might do ppl die in the name of religon every day.

thus its for stupid ppl.

Rubbish. Show me evidence that religion is killing people every day. Show me that evidence for every religion on the planet. I could say that money is killing people every day. Therefore money is for stupid people. Drugs kill people every day. Thus they're for stupid people. Alcohol and tobacco kill people every day. Thus they're for stupid people. Cars kill people every day. Therefore they're for stupid people. Politics kills people every day. Thus it's for stupid people. I could go on and on and on with this, but really, it's easy to demonstrate that religion motivates a very very large number of people to do good. Twisted versions of religon - which are condemned by everyone in the mainstream of the religion which they have twisted - motivate a quite small number of people to do evil, and yet you think that because of a small minority with whom I vehemently disagree and have no personal connection with that I must be stupid.

I'd prefer it if people didn't claim the stories that inspire them were factually true in spite of most evidence to the contrary.

Are you claiming that there's evidence to say that the New Testament isn't factually true? If so, please present your evidence.

[Denyer]

Are you claiming that there's evidence to say that the New Testament isn't factually true?

I'm impressed you apparently typed that straightfaced.

The whole "rising from the dead" guff.

Anything else labelled a miraculous event.

edit:

Helpful summary -- http://www.bookrags.com/notes/bnt/TOP3.htm

[Professor Smooth]

Religion is a farce. But don't worry, Bouncelot, it's a farce that has more believers than not. So, despite the fact that you believe in something that nobody has ever been able to provide a single shred of proof to support the existance of, you're not alone.

Your religion is a lot like your genitals. They may be very important to you, but waving them around in front of everybody is not recommended.

[Denyer]

Nudity > attempting to guilt people with fictional concept of Original Sin

[Best First]

there were clips on TV tonight of people saying Breast feeding should be done in private! Argh.

And, of course, God's standards of morality don't match what any human would come up with on their own

of course!

so very obvious.

[Bouncelot]

Are you claiming that there's evidence to say that the New Testament isn't factually true?

I'm impressed you apparently typed that straightfaced.

The whole "rising from the dead" guff.

Anything else labelled a miraculous event.

edit:

Helpful summary -- http://www.bookrags.com/notes/bnt/TOP3.htm

Sorry, are you saying that you have evidence that the specific miracles recorded in the New Testament didn't happen, or are you claiming that you have evidence that miracles couldn't possibly happen? I've yet to see even any hint of the existence of any evidence for either claim.

[Professor Smooth]

Sorry, are you saying that you have evidence that the specific miracles recorded in the New Testament didn't happen, or are you claiming that you have evidence that miracles couldn't possibly happen? I've yet to see even any hint of the existence of any evidence for either claim.

How about the evidence of nothing like that happening before or since?

[Denyer]

Sorry, are you saying that you have evidence that the specific miracles recorded in the New Testament didn't happen, or are you claiming that you have evidence that miracles couldn't possibly happen? I've yet to see even any hint of the existence of any evidence for either claim.

I'm saying that if the criteria for truth is old and cross-referenced sources, the world was once inhabited by dragons, frost gods and several other pantheons of deities.

Which would be cool, actually. Partway through reading American Gods again at the moment.

Oh, and it'd mean those Egyptian texts about the world being created through divine masturbation are true! All true! Yay!

(Love the way you're automatically substituting "recorded" for "made up", incidentally.)

[Yaya]

Bottom line, you either believe in a God or you don't, no person can prove the other wrong. Its foolish, and impossible, to try and convince someone that God exists, because belief in a God is a matter of faith.

I have seen enough of the world, studied enough of the world, have been an introspective individual my whole life. I have studied the religions of the world, and I have studied the sciences in great detail.

My conclusion: Science itself is one of the greatest proofs of the existence of God. You think that a person rising from the dead is miraculous, or that the parting of the Red Sea is something incredible to behold? There are far, far greater miraculous events that happen everyday within nature itself, within our very own bodies, that lend a very strong argument to the existence of forces beyond our comprehension, of forces so intricate, so powerful, that something of incredible intelligence has set these things in motion. Some might believe it to be aliens, or perhaps some other scientific force at work.

I believe it is what we call God, the Creator of the Universe. I don't believe God is a man, or something even remotely human in quality. People make Him to be a man, or a stone idol, so that they can relate better to Him. He is far beyond what is ascribed to Him by most. I see science as His creation and I literally shiver at the enormity and beauty of science itself. How something so beautiful can exist by mere chance...well atheist, I guess you have your explanations.

[Denyer]

Not miraculous. Ineffably impressive if people only stop to look, and often hugely improbable -- but 'miraculous' is just us trying to reduce things to words.

He is far beyond what is ascribed to Him by most.

Yeah, for one thing, I don't think it's the vengeful bastard its followers make it out to be. Assuming it exists.

explanations

Why need an explanation?

Much of it comes back to death. People don't want to think that they, and people they know, will end.

[wideload]

I should have expected this.... man. Anyway, my views.... a non-literal translation is best. Its not really important if you can prove wheter or not these miracles actually happened, its the morals from the stories which are important. Doesnt really matter who is right as long as you understand what the big message is (which is usually good)

[Denyer]

I'd say most pastors I've had the pleasure of keeping eye contact with as they tried to convince their audience that good intentions mean nothing without faith would disagree with you.

Me, I don't think there's a big message there you can't get from more interesting writers with fewer tendencies to lapse into the prejudices of their time.

[Best First]

Be nice to each other and consider the effects of your actions upon others and the planet.

need a mythical being involved? No.

[Metal Vendetta]

How something so beautiful can exist by mere chance...well atheist, I guess you have your explanations.

How about all the ugly stuff as well? The mass extinctions, the natural disasters, the diseases, the parasites, the bacteria, the predators, the scavengers, the cancers, the cold?

Or is God only responsible for the nice stuff like:
Puppies - although they were "created" by humans through domestication
Kittens - see above
Flowers - which are the oversized sexual organs of plants, bit weird that
Dolphins - which for some reason show vestgal traces of having lived on land, not quite what you'd expect if some being was going to design a kick-arse aquatic mammal
Nice weather
Boobs - usually attributed to God, but sexual selection within species pretty much accounts for physical differences between men and women...male elephant seals are four times as big as the females, for example...

I think to attribute everything in the world to God is simply missing the big picture. The story's a lot more complicated than that and we'll probably never understand half of it, but to say "It was all done by a powerful being who we can't even comprehend" is a very sloppy way of thinking. It wouldn't stand up as evidence in any court in the world and there's no reason to believe it here. So, to answer your point above, no I don't have any explanations - no-one does. But to say God did it all is not an explanation, it's the laziest cop-out of an argument I've ever heard.

[Best First]

why is 'mere chance' any less feasable or likley than some sky fairy?

and why does not knowing all the answers to 'why' we are here means some rather illogical ones should be lended credence, because they 'can't be dissproved'?

doesn't work.