[men and women are naturally equal]?

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Post by Yaya » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:00 am

Denyer wrote: The dark ages were a while back, and are an appropriate period of time in which to leave the "genders are from two different planets" spiel to rot.
If you are suggesting that men and women are equal in the rights due to them, I wholeheartedly agree.

But anyone who feels that men and women are the same or are naturally equal in their ability to perform any given task with the same level of competency should think about it a little harder. Better yet, they should do some medical research into the normal physiological functions and natural brain patterns of both genders. They will come to find that, indeed, men and women are quite different, both in their capabilities and their behavior. This difference is no longer recognized in America.

In my opinion, and I'll take a lot of flak for this, one of the biggest problems with society today, at least here in the U.S., is the idea that women can do anything as well as any man. This type of thinking has led millions of women to forgo some of their most basic natural callings and in essence 'become men'. To prove their 'equality', they have taken on professions that are so time consuming that they neglect their calling as mothers and wifes simply to prove a point--namely, I can do whatever the hell a man can do. Maybe so! But at what cost?

I don't debate the competency of women. They can do many things better than any man, and can in fact, do most things men can do. But is this a good thing? I don't think so. Two people cannot be driving the same car at the same time. One must drive, the other direct. Men by their very nature seek to be captain of the ship. Things work out best with a divide and conquer strategy in tackling duties. This can't be done if a women feels that being a housewife is something inferior, or a reason to be looked down upon.

I don't know how being a housewife or being a mother as a homemaker got the bad rap that it now has, because quite frankly, I see these duties as the most important of all. But unfortunately, women here in America have taken to this destructive thinking, that they are less of a person, worth less in society, if they manage the home.

And even more interesting. How the hell did I derail this topic? Sorry dudes. End rant. Unless, of course, Denyer has something to add. (and if I know Stu, he cannot help but disagree with about 95% of the things I say. ;) )

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Post by Denyer » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:47 am

they neglect their calling as mothers
I think you're badly failing to grasp that many women don't want kids. Before you come back with "biological clock" and "instinct" statements... it's instinct to bash the heads in of anything that we feel poses a threat or challenge. It's instinct to screw anything available to further the species. Society is a product of reason rather than unrestrained instinct.
the idea that women can do anything as well as any man
Most things, yes. And vice versa. Though the point is more that people should be given opportunity to try stuff rather than being discouraged before they've had that chance -- because quality of life for the exceptions to statistical patterns is crap without those opportunities.
being a housewife is something inferior
This is one thing I will agree with you on; people tend to hugely underestimate the skills and energy required to tend children or do housework.

The rest?

Give people the opportunity to find vocations that they excel at, rather than trying to railroad towards generalities.

Look at the economy before you expect either parent to stay home.

Understand better that economic dependence is regarded as failure by most of the Western world, and will continue to be so for the forseeable future.

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Post by Yaya » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:06 am

more that people should be given opportunity to try stuff rather than being discouraged before they've had that chance


If women don't want children, that's one thing. But what about those who already have children and a husband who is an adequate breadwinner for the family? Like I said, many women do it because they feel they have something to prove or so that they can be viewed as someone with greater value. The point has been made. Now stop playing with your childrens lives when there is no need to be working. There is a big difference between wants and needs. Those mothers who want to leave their kids untended at home to raise themselves or with a babysitter when they don't have to, well, they are doing a grave injustice to their children. Men and women have rights. So to kids. They have the right to be raised with as much care and guidance as can be afforded them. I can tell you, here in the U.S., their rights are being violated under the struggle to attain 'gender equality'. The masses think they are addressing one problem, while in essence they create another. What ever happened to "I believe the children are our future?"

I'm married without children. My wife is a pharmacist. I made it clear to her the day I married her. If she wants to be my wife, she must follow this golden rule: when children come into the picture, pharmacy takes the back seat to raising our children. I made sure she saw the importance of child rearing with the same emphasis I saw it with.
Before you come back with "biological clock" and "instinct" statements...
Here I come, ready or not. I can't count how many times I have worked with professional women, physicians and the like, who express to me how down they feel. They feel something is missing. At work, they are completely absorbed in what they do. After hours though, they feel a void and can't put their finger on it. Its the void left by being childless. It is part of being a women that she feels the need, regardless of whether she recognizes it or not, to have children, to procreate. They obtain satisfaction from their job, some women a great deal of it, yet it many instances it is a fleeting satisfaction, a thrill of the moment sort of phenomenon. Men who are childless feel it to, though fail to recognize it. If you are of a scientific bend you understand the drive to procreate is one of the strongest natural urges of animals in general, people included. Sex has been made uberpleasing to us because the end result is procreation.

I really can't recall anyone being pleased later in life with a decision they made to not have children. I talk with elderly patients daily. Maybe its because they are old and need to be cared for, maybe they feel they have lost their future. Whatever the reason, it is rare to see someone at age 70 happy they did not have children.

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Post by Obfleur » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:37 am

Why cant you quit your job, and let your wife continue being a pharmacist (if you get a baby that is)?

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Post by Eline » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:45 am

Yaya wrote:I'm married without children. My wife is a pharmacist. I made it clear to her the day I married her. If she wants to be my wife, she must follow this golden rule: when children come into the picture, pharmacy takes the back seat to raising our children. I made sure she saw the importance of child rearing with the same emphasis I saw it with.
But would you be prepared to quit your work to raise your children?

How can you ask something like that of her?! And she actually agreed to this? Are you really sure or are you making a joke? Do you really believe all this what you are saying?

In my opinion, children need both of their parents, not just one who is home all the time and one they see when he/she feels like it.

I think society should encourage fathers to play a much more active role as father/housekeeper/etc.

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Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:01 am

I have to say im with Eline on this one.
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Post by Metal Vendetta » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:43 pm

Men and women are different to each other. Men are generally taller and stronger than women. Women have breasts. I could go on. This suggests that at some point in our evolutionary history, sexual selection was taking place to enhance those qualities, whether humans were living in monogamous or polygamous societies, or as is the case today, both.

Whatever the circumstances were, things have changed. Men are still better at, say, breaking rocks, hunting boar and fighting off sabretooths than women, but in today's society, those skills aren't what they once were. Professions today involve skills like networking and communication, which women can perform just as well as (if not better than) men. It's not just tradition either - in Leicester, due to the lace-making industry that was prevalent there in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, it was extremely common for the men to raise the children while the women went to work and brought home the money. In fact I'm not sure I can think of one family that I know where the mother hasn't worked in some capacity. Sorry Yaya, but you just sound like the alpha male in a crap American sitcom: "I ain't givin' up mah job to look after children, that's woman's work!"

Christ, if I was married and I had the chance to give up work and spend all day raising my children I'd be at it like a shot. It sounds absolutely brilliant. Why is your job so important that you can't leave it to raise your children?

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Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:31 pm

ah breasts.... men are more sexist!
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Post by Best First » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:05 pm

Yaya wrote:
Denyer wrote: The dark ages were a while back, and are an appropriate period of time in which to leave the "genders are from two different planets" spiel to rot.
If you are suggesting that men and women are equal in the rights due to them, I wholeheartedly agree.
so if both of them want to go to work even if they have kids then it is an issue between them how the kids are reared and gender should in no way presuppose the answer.

glad we cleared that up.
is the idea that women can do anything as well as any man.
i love the contsruction of this sentance by the way. Remember girls, we are the standard you aspire to.

*wanders off to scratch his testicles whilst ponering why someone who seesm to think that people should listen to their natural callings is planning on participating in the social construct called marriage*
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Post by Denyer » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:08 pm

Yaya wrote:what about those who already have children and a husband who is an adequate breadwinner for the family?
Straightforward question: would you give up a career to raise children? Try to answer it honestly. If no, don't expect it of anyone else. You're every bit as able to parent, and it's a very weak position to hide behind a supposed 'genetic incapability' to look after kids. Millions of men do.

The nuclear family has not, historically, been the case. It didn't exist much in the earlier part of the last century in which it was first touted, either, due to two world wars. Previous to that, it was far more common for grandparents and family friends to raise kids -- which created cultural bonds between children and the elderly that are conspicuously missing from today's society.
Yaya wrote:What ever happened to "I believe the children are our future?"
The future keeps happening with or without every couple reproducing. This has always been the case. Not feeling moved to reproduce doesn't actually equate for an antipathy towards kids, either, or failure to understand that it's a good idea to impress values you'd like to see in the populance in forty years into today's generations.
Yaya wrote:I'm married without children. My wife is a pharmacist. I made it clear to her the day I married her. If she wants to be my wife, she must follow this golden rule: when children come into the picture, pharmacy takes the back seat to raising our children. I made sure she saw the importance of child rearing with the same emphasis I saw it with.
That's probably for the best -- at least everyone knows what they're getting into -- if not because they agree then because they know what warning signs to look for and have advance warning to get the exit papers drafted.

It's genuinely a good thing to make positions on things like this clear when founding relationships, although people can and do change.
Yaya wrote:After hours though, they feel a void and can't put their finger on it.
You've just described the existential angst felt by every generation dating back thousands of years. In its simplest form, it's the question: is this all there is?
Yaya wrote:It is part of being a women that she feels the need, regardless of whether she recognizes it or not, to have children, to procreate.
It's part of being human to feel the need to kill stuff. Again, your point? Society has lasted thus far because of the conscious mind.
Yaya wrote:If you are of a scientific bend you understand the drive to procreate is one of the strongest natural urges of animals in general
That's the urge to f*ck, not reproduce. We're also instinctually nurturing to some extent -- creatures that aren't don't tend to stick around for many generations -- which is expressed by regard for friends as much as for offspring, whether offspring of self or others.

There's a hormone reciprocity between infants and adults, but it's in no way the only route to satisfaction through nurturing behaviour.
Yaya wrote:I really can't recall anyone being pleased later in life with a decision they made to not have children. I talk with elderly patients daily.
Working with ill people, you're far more likely to get a depressing slice of life in conversation with them. Actually, the prevalence of elderly who are depressed -- kids or no kids -- you're likely to get a depressing slice of life conversation anyway.

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Post by Legion » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:14 pm

Denyer wrote: it's instinct to bash the heads in of anything that we feel poses a threat or challenge. It's instinct to screw anything available to further the species. Society is a product of reason rather than unrestrained instinct.
unfortunately IMHO, society (at least some rather unfortunately more and more noticeable aspects of it) seems to be going down the path you've labelled "instinct" rather than reason. :(

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Post by Yaya » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:22 pm

Why cant you quit your job, and let your wife continue being a pharmacist (if you get a baby that is)?
But would you be prepared to quit your work to raise your children?

How can you ask something like that of her?! And she actually agreed to this? Are you really sure or are you making a joke? Do you really believe all this what you are saying?

Only a fool doesn't discuss family expectations before they get married. I don't quit my job because I don't want to. Like I said, my expectations for how things would work were made perfectly clear before I entered the marriage contract. Which is what marriage is, a contract. As with all contracts, how it will work should be clearly spelled out, either tacitly or in writing, before one gets married. The problem arises when suddenly, a husband or wife break that contract. My wife agreed to quit her job should we have kids. I never forced her to make such a decision. After I made such stipulations, the choice to marry me was hers to make. I don't believe in forcing anyone to do anything for my sake.
In my opinion, children need both of their parents, not just one who is home all the time and one they see when he/she feels like it.
I think society should encourage fathers to play a much more active role as father/housekeeper/etc.
Well said. I couldn't agree more. Its hard to raise children right when neither parent is around. I would never marry a women who is career oriented. That's just my choice. Nor would I choose to be a standoffish father. That would not be something acceptable as a parent. I know how important it is for someone to be there, whether it is a mother or father. Like I said, my problem is with those women who act out of selfishness, out a desire to prove to themselves that they are as competent in professional achievement as any man.

Can fathers be as good parents as mothers? Sure. But the fact that on average children are closer to their mothers than fathers has much to do with the physical bond they share during conception, pregnancy, and lactation and the 'motherly instincts' that facilitate such behavior. There is more than just nutrition that is supplied by a lactating mother with a child. There is a special bond that takes place and grows, something thats makes us run to our mothers when we have no where to turn. Look at that criminal O.J. Simpson, for example. Huge mother ******, made a living crushing people, but who does he run to when the cops come running? He runs to mommy. (This doesn't prove a point, but its interesting to think about.)
Sorry Yaya, but you just sound like the alpha male in a crap American sitcom: "I ain't givin' up mah job to look after children, that's woman's work!"
You couldn't be more wrong there. I have never belittled the sanctity of raising children. Yes, sanctity. For as I said, child rearing is more important than anything I could ever achieve at work, and I am a ophthalmologist. I treat the blind, help them to see. Despite this, I will say without hesitency that no matter what I achieve professionally in the workplace, it doesn't hold a candle to the mothers of the world who sacrifice their time and energy to bring good children into the world, to ensure they are properly guided and cared for. I am of the opinion that a good mother cannot be replaced.

So that alpha male stuff is crap. You imply that I look down on women for the homemaking and childrearing they do. You got me wrong. There is no more precious a gift in all the world than a mother who looks after her children with her very best effort. I am a product of such an effort. An effort I can never repay. I could always pay my father back the money he used to raise me. But the sacrifice and sheer energy and time my mother used to raise me? No way.
so if both of them want to go to work even if they have kids then it is an issue between them how the kids are reared and gender should in no way presuppose the answer.
If both work when they don't have to, and they have kids, I don't see it as just an issue between them. Children have rights too. If both parents don't have to work but choose to do so and leave their children at home to be self raised by television or some twisted f**k nanny, then I see it as a crime, even if they agreed to this before marriage. Children have the right to adequate parental attention.
Working with ill people, you're far more likely to get a depressing slice of life in conversation with them. Actually, the prevalence of elderly who are depressed -- kids or no kids -- you're likely to get a depressing slice of life conversation anyway.
Granted, the illness itself is a large part of many patients depression, but so are regrets as they approach the endstages of their lives.
That's the urge to f*ck, not reproduce.


So you are going to debate that the urge to [composite word including 'f*ck'] has nothing to do with preservation and procreation of the species? I would have that you would have felt otherwise. Interesting.

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Post by Denyer » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:53 pm

Yaya wrote:you are going to debate that the urge to **** has nothing to do with preservation and procreation of the species?
An instinct/hormone doesn't have consciousness or purpose -- those are rationalisations added by people/religion.

Instincts towards f*cking and towards treating young mammals (and others) favourably have survived because they are/were likely to perpetuate a species in the conditions around. In another situation (such as temporary but extreme food shortage, in which adults could survive by using all of the resources available, but instead follow the instinct to preserve offspring -- who, food or not, would require more to survive) there could well follow extinction.

The only similarity between those instincts is that they're a matter of chemistry and generational learning. (Such learning can have an effect on extinction/survival events -- for example, it's close to instinctual to pour something cold to negate a fire, but experience will add that putting water on something too hot will make the fire much worse.)
Yaya wrote:There is a special bond that takes place and grows, something thats makes us run to our mothers when we have no where to turn.
Which, hormonal advantage or not, is available to any most-encountered caregiver... it's far more a behavioural impulse. It's also worth noting that girls statistically often have a stronger bond with fathers.
Yaya wrote:my problem is with those women who act out of selfishness
My problem is with any parent who acts out of selfishness. Mothers are not more responsible for children than fathers, however often this turns out to be the case. Again, this is typically a cop-out, bigging up a 'maternal instinct' (which many women don't have -- and are made to feel terrible for not having) for a guy to avoid doing something.

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Post by Yaya » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:36 pm

A hormone doesn't have purpose
Stu. That is the most presposterous thing I have ever heard from you. And then to claim a scientifically proven fact of nature is another 'delusional' imaginative creation of religous folk! Low testosterone levels invariable lead to less of a desire to [composite word including 'f*ck']. What more proof do you need?
Maybe I'm not reading you right here.
It's also worth noting that girls statistically often have a stronger bond with fathers.
Not that I think you are making this up, but who says? This is the first I have heard of this. Must be a Freudian belief, something Oedipus in nature.
My problem is with any parent who acts out of selfishness.
As is mine. This is the very problem, that many times it is both parents who do not discuss expectations or future plans regarding how they will tackle the responsibility of children. What infuriates me to no end in particular is the 'women who has something to prove' situation. What a petty thing this is.

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Post by sprunkner » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:49 pm

Eye doctor... wait, we knew an eye doctor once...

Yaya, are you Commander Shockwave?
Yaya wrote:What infuriates me to no end in particular is the 'woman ho has something to prove' situation. What a petty thing this is.
But, having never been in the situation, can you blame them? Men complain because some women have been injured by men and carry a grudge. But everyone does that. As a Mormon, I have a horrible prejudice against born-again-Christians. I try and I try, but too many of them have been too cruel for me to let go completely, even though I keep trying.

In fact, I'm sure there are lots of people here, religious or not, who understand how I feel. Why are you coming down on people who have difficulty forgiving?
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Post by Obfleur » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:00 pm

Sprunker is going to heaven :up:
Can't believe I'm still here.

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Post by Yaya » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:08 pm

But, having never been in the situation, can you blame them?

Well, that's a good point. I suppose I can cede this point to you, that perhaps women feel they have something to prove because of their maltreatment by men. It doesn't change the destructive nature of such thinking, but it certainly becomes more understandable in that light. Understandable and unfortunate.
Yaya, are you Commander Shockwave?
Never knew em. But I hear he was a real asshole. Not a nice, kind eye doctor, like me. :)

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Post by Denyer » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:16 pm

Yaya wrote:
A hormone doesn't have purpose
Stu. That is the most presposterous thing I have ever heard from you.
In this sentence, 'serve a purpose' (syn. for 'perform a role') would connote an entirely different meaning. Chemicals don't have self-determination, aren't independently self-aware, do not possess separate consciousness, etc.

Hands up anyone else in the audience who's having trouble following my chain of thought.
Yaya wrote:What infuriates me to no end in particular is the 'women who has something to prove' situation. What a petty thing this is.
People expecting things as a fait accompli pisses me off far more. It's the attitude "you're female, therefore you must obviously be better at cooking, cleaning and childrearing" that deserves lingering exsanguination.

There's nothing to prove. However, if one partner expects the other to give up their own life and financial independence by default, whilst they continue a career and control monies coming into a household, ready the knives.

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Post by Best First » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:43 pm

Yaya wrote:
Why cant you quit your job, and let your wife continue being a pharmacist (if you get a baby that is)?
But would you be prepared to quit your work to raise your children?

How can you ask something like that of her?! And she actually agreed to this? Are you really sure or are you making a joke? Do you really believe all this what you are saying?

Only a fool doesn't discuss family expectations before they get married. I don't quit my job because I don't want to.
and yet if a women takes this attitude you condemn her as selfish, or, brilliantly she is only doing it to prove something to men. Those poor foolish women eh?

whether you venerate childbirth or look down on house wives you are still being sexist by insisting women have a role that they should be fulfilling by virtue of their gender.

You could also argue that a trend towards closer ties to the mother is little more than the result of women traditionally being forced to spend more time with children by out dated attitudes like the ones you are espousing in this topic.
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Post by Yaya » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:36 am

and yet if a women takes this attitude you condemn her as selfish,
Depends on the situation. If before marriage she discusses her plans with her future husband, and he agrees, well, the guy sure as hell better not complain about not having dinner on the table. But if children enter the scenario, both parents are selfish for not having taken them into account. Somebody has to raise the children, i.e. stay at home at take care of business. Personallyt, I believe a women is better at this than a man. A generalization, yes, but one I believe on the whole holds true.


whether you venerate childbirth or look down on house wives you are still being sexist by insisting women have a role that they should be fulfilling by virtue of their gender.
You call me sexist. However, sexism implies that one looks down on the other gender as inferior. I don't hold this stance. I do hold that women are better suited than men for some roles and men better suited for others by virtue of their gender. I truly believe that, as do many others. If that's how you define sexism, I'm the biggest ****** of a sexist you will ever see. So be it.
In this sentence, 'serve a purpose' (syn. for 'perform a role') would connote an entirely different meaning. Chemicals don't have self-determination, aren't independently self-aware, do not possess separate consciousness, etc.
I see what you are saying now.
as a fait accompli
Now I don't, cause I don't know what the [composite word including 'f*ck'] that even means. ;)
cooking, cleaning and childrearing" that deserves lingering exsanguination.
Cooking? No. Cleaning. No again, men are just as good, if not better, they just don't want to get off their lazy asses and do it. Childrearing. Women are better overall. Like I said, I do espouse the idea of a natural advantage of a mother over a father in sharing a stronger bond with a child by virtue of the physical bond that only a mother can share with a child from the womb. Psychological analyses has proven such advantage.

There's nothing to prove.

That's what I'm saying, there really isn't. A women can do most things just as good as any man, barring physical limitations. And yet, I have met women who are so self absorbed with proving that they are just as good, it amazes me.

That fellow sprunker made me think a little about why women are like that in the first place. And I have concluded it is a reactionary response to being demeaned by men in the first place.

How bout that. Men are to blame after all.

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Post by Obfleur » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:55 am

I honestly believe that you can't sign that kind of a contract when you get married.

Lets say you get married, and the woman agrees to quit her job etc. if a child pops up.

Fast forward six years; you have lost your job as an eye doctor and are currently working at McDonalds.
Your wife on the other hand has her very own pharmacy - which has been her life long dream. She loves her job, she loves her coworkers, she is happy with life.
Should she still uphold this "contract"?
Can't believe I'm still here.

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Post by Best First » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:00 am

Yaya wrote:A generalization, yes, but one I believe on the whole holds true.
oh, well, if you believe it.
You call me sexist.
yep.
However, sexism implies that one looks down on the other gender as inferior.
no, it implies prejudice, whther positive or negative. besides your veneteraion of 'motherhood' clearly leads you to judge women who are 'obsessed' with 'being like men' and rejecting their 'calling'. If you can't see the sexism in the notion that equality means 'being like men' you are having a laugh. It means having equall power, which men happen to have had more than the fair share of for significant amounts of time.
I do hold that women are better suited than men for some roles and men better suited for others by virtue of their gender.

a notion that becomes useless when applied at an individual level and sexist if any one in any way attemtps to enforce it, be that through legeslation or attempting to stigmaitise those who do not wish to comply, as you have repeatedly done in this topic.
I truly believe that, as do many others.
oh! oh! It must be true then. Christ. :roll:

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saysadie
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Post by saysadie » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:44 am

Yaya, if I ever meet you RL, I'm going to kick you in the boys, mmmkay?

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Best First
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Post by Best First » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:46 am

saysadie wrote:Yaya, if I ever meet you RL, I'm going to kick you in the boys, mmmkay?
your just obsessed with proving you are as good as we supedriormen. You disgust me, why not curtail your personal desires and fit into my view of the world? Then i would respect you. As it you are a let down to the human race and i peer down my nose at you you gender traitor.

i'm not sexist though.
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saysadie
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Post by saysadie » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:52 am

I feel that maternal instinct kicking in, someone give me something to suckle.

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Best First
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Post by Best First » Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:19 am

saysadie wrote:I feel that maternal instinct kicking in, someone give me something to suckle.
*passes Brend*
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saysadie
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Post by saysadie » Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:25 am

Best First wrote:*passes Brend*
OMG, That must've hurt!

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Denyer
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Post by Denyer » Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:48 pm

Right, back... where were we...
Yaya wrote:stay at home at take care of business. Personallyt, I believe a women is better at this than a man. A generalization, yes
And inaccurate in many cases. It's the assumption that's egregious. Meanwhile, a large number of women are made to feel like half-persons because they don't coo and dribble over kids.

For women to have a calling as mothers, there would need to be willed design of biology (which would be found to be of flawed design in any case.) What we find ourselves with instead are statistical trends -- things that many women accomplish more easily or with more satisfaction than many men (and vice versa) owing to a mix of chemistry and culture. In this case a significant deal to do with culture -- although we are seeing more men taking care of kids now, as has been seen in rather more isolated circumstances historically.

We're also seeing more stigma attached -- though women do abuse kids, it's far more a taboo in discussion.

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Post by Yaya » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:30 pm

saysadie wrote:Yaya, if I ever meet you RL, I'm going to kick you in the boys, mmmkay?
Take a number and get in line, pal.

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Post by Optimus Prime Rib » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:57 pm

Im so conflicted on this topic.. Ive been BEGGING Jessica to get a job for years now. But she sees the need for one of us to be home with the kids. Since I had already established a career with Outback, she decided that she shouldnt work. While thats all well and good in a "I make a bazillion dollars" world, I barely live check to check right now. I think it would be more fair to say that if there is no need, ONE PARENT should be at home. I can not deny the maternal instinct. Jessy caught a bad case of baby blues with Koen and didnt feel like being a mom. However with Mykal she went NUTTS over him. She is so excited about Kaelynn now that she is fawning over the smallest thing. I however am stuck with the "Hunter/gatherer" syndrome where i worry about how Im going to provide.

If ya make over 100k a year.. by all means one parent stay home.. when youre barely breaking 20.. kiss my ass ya both have to work.

I would LOVE to spend everyday with my kids.. Id be terrible at it btw. They wear me out after 15 minutes. In fact, hold on one moment while I get them to stop jumping off the the end table onto the couch and bounce onto an elabortae arrangement of pillows they have put out.. Mind you they are 3 and 2.
Oh yeah compeltely diff topic I know, but things seem to have smoothed out with Jessy and I :) Thanks for the support everyone!
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