xbox 360 recalls

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:45 pm

It overheated because he misused it.

It was recalled to see 'if' this could have been fault of MS.
It wasnt.
ergo
All XBOX 360 remain in the market place.

PSU are designed to run hot.

I fail to see what your trying to say?

are you trying to say that the MS PSU is flawed? that it has a design fault. because it doesnt.

Post by **Denyer** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:50 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:It overheated because he misused it.

We're talking about more than one solitary/isolated case.

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:are you trying to say that the MS PSU is flawed?

Yes.

http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?s ... d=14188008

I'm guessing he didn't RTFM. It tells you where not to put your Xbox (carpets, enclosed spaces, etc.)
So, in the USA, one can write "do not turn on in a livingroom or bedroom" and win all cases if the thing gets broken?

http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?s ... d=14188324

Its regular level of consumption is 160W. That's a lot, and it all turns into heat.

like all devices, a cooling system just moves the heat somewhere else, in this case ouside the case. So if you put it in a confied area or block the vents, it will be unable to cool itself. There is NOTHING MS can do about this.
Yes there is something Microsoft can do, design the unit with the consumer in mind. Every power brick I have sits on the floor near the plug with all the wires with virtually no air cirulation, not in front of my air conditioner. If the power brick needs more cooling then can be provided in "normal" operation for a power brick, then it should have been built into the Xbox. But that could not happen because Microsoft wanted the Xbox to be as small as possible.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:25 pm

So why dont they recall all the millions out there?

Because. and this is what I said right back at the start.

PSU do overheat from time to time, since the start of electronics manufacture not unit has ever been %100 full proof.

I could fast forward 10 years to the next XBOX and ill bet good money the PSU in that will over heat 0.01% of concosles via mis-use or just a faulty item.

If this PSU has broken down why havent the other 99.99999% of them?

simply because there is no design flaw, they were either mis-used or the item was faulty which is not a design flaw.

so end of the day, MS has done [composite word including 'f*ck'] all wrong its just a faulty unit or a dim wit and unless I see a recall of 5 squillion units I wont think any other way because the law clearly doesnt follow the recall view, and doesnt feel MS has a problem.

Post by **Denyer** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:35 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:So why dont they recall all the millions out there?

Why don't other manufacturers issue recalls in every case of dangerous hardware? Because paying off the successful lawsuits is cheaper. Simple economics.

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:its just a faulty unit

The fault is as much due to design as to manufacturing defect. Some designs make it far easier for for defects to become serious problems.

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:unless I see a recall of 5 squillion units I wont think any other way because the law clearly doesnt follow the recall view, and doesnt feel MS has a problem.

I'll just keep posting the salient facts as they become available...

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:49 am

If the design was 'flawed' then how come its only effecting 1 or 2 machines out of millions.

If the design was flawed and there wasa serious risk how come the law hasnt stepped in?

because the most logical answer that like every other electrical good in existance since the dawn of electrical goods time - some units do fail.

that does not reflect a faulty design.

christ, actually everything manufactured by man on a production line generaly hasa faulty unit. tell me somthig doesnt?

so in all respects if MS have had 2 PSU failures - its a great design!!

Post by **Denyer** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:16 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:If the design was 'flawed' then how come its only effecting 1 or 2 machines out of millions.

If the design was flawed and there wasa serious risk how come the law hasnt stepped in?

It's been out a matter of days rather than months, and there's already a class action lawsuit brewing.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:34 pm

yes a man has brought a law suit, anyone can do that.

I recall the PSP had a failure on the right hand button that effected a few 1000 users, and there was the 'dead pixel' issue too.
It wasnt a design flaw, it was just mass production.

If MS is asked to recall the units ill belive there is a design flaw untill then, a few units out of the 5 million manufactured and out of the 3 million reportedly sold doesnt equate to a design flaw, just a few failing units.
like I said, and im sure everyone is aware of, anything in mass production, be it consoles, cars or even teap cups will have the odd faulty item.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:50 pm

its a good job you are here to defend the rights of big business to ship deffective products...

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:04 pm

Yeah but why not?

If anyone can name me a mass produced product that hasnt had one single item fail off the production run then ill be amazed.

Where were you when my soundwave leg fell off? were you standing on your soap boxes, or did u just accept that things do fail.
how about my car door handel, why did that break?
That game i bought last month that had a broken disc?

I can go on for ever naming mass produced products that didnt work, and im pretty sure in your life time you have had just as many as I have.

We live in a blame culture because.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:47 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:Yeah but why not?

oh, good point.

If anyone can name me a mass produced product that hasnt had one single item fail off the production run then ill be amazed.

doesn't justify it - just means it happens.

Where were you when my soundwave leg fell off? were you standing on your soap boxes, or did u just accept that things do fail.

i'm fairly sure non of us knew about it. Not good though is it?

how about my car door handel, why did that break?
That game i bought last month that had a broken disc?

so... because you don't complain, no one else should? i see.

I can go on for ever naming mass produced products that didnt work, and im pretty sure in your life time you have had just as many as I have.

doesn't justify it - just means it happens.

We live in a blame culture because.

...where we blame the people whose fault it is because they choose increased profit over garunteed quality. Yes, i see how you would be enraged atthe injustice of blaming the people whose fault it is.

Are you actively persuing lower standards, or just happy to see them happen?

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:17 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: Where were you when my soundwave leg fell off? were you standing on your soap boxes, or did u just accept that things do fail.
how about my car door handel, why did that break?
That game i bought last month that had a broken disc?

none of which are particularly dangerous. If soundwave had a habit of setting fire to your living room, then that would be a different kettle of fish, no?

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:24 pm

Bollox.

Mass production creates failures, legislation states that is is acceptable to have a certain ammount of units fail before you are in breach of the law.

If you dont like the law then you go and deal with it - I dont have a problem with it because I actually understand the process of construction and accept that failures will happen due to the nature of science.

And you havnt asnwered my question, why cant I defend?

Stupiud headlines, created by stupid ppl, only help create more stupid ppl who dont understand what they are talking about, get educated or dont comment.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:50 pm

Legion wrote:
Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: Where were you when my soundwave leg fell off? were you standing on your soap boxes, or did u just accept that things do fail.
how about my car door handel, why did that break?
That game i bought last month that had a broken disc?
none of which are particularly dangerous. If soundwave had a habit of setting fire to your living room, then that would be a different kettle of fish, no?

Ok,
Yes it is, but in relation to soundwave now being compared to the X360 PSU, my SNES PSU melted and thus could have burnt down my living room.
is no one here to complain about Ninty then? - well I hope so because they feel the need to complain about MS.

hypocrites.

Post by **Best First** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:48 pm

Dude you are being an insulting cock.

I didn't know about the ninty issue, if i had i would have complained.

oh, but i'm a hypocrite.

Plus i'm fairly sure everyone here is as well educated as you are.

still, i'm sure you can counter this with some clever arguement such as 'bollox' and make statements that vastly miss the point such as 'its legal'.

Love the fact you are telling people to 'go deal with it' but complaining when they articulate their complaints in a topic.

FFS.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:35 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:my SNES PSU melted and thus could have burnt down my living room.
is no one here to complain about Ninty then? - well I hope so because they feel the need to complain about MS.

well, i've had the good fortune not to have either of these happen to me (well, that's helped by never having owned a snes or an xbox360 admittedly), but if either of them had done that to me, i would be the first to complain to the respective manufacturers.

i doubt very much that people are complaining just because it's MS.
people complain about every ******* little thing that goes wrong these days.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:56 am

Best First wrote:Dude you are being an insulting cock.

Oh well like sorry dude.

I didn't know about the ninty issue, if i had i would have complained.

I know you didnt know, you dont know everything that happens in ones life, thats not the point, the point is it was an example of how many things fail in life, I shouldnt have to sit here and make a list just to prove that things fail as if you didnt already know.
I mean are you telling me that you didnt know things made by man arnt perfect?
Of course not, so I shouldnt have to list things then.

Plus i'm fairly sure everyone here is as well educated as you are.

Actually on this subject, unless anyone has done a similar degree to the one im doing, I actually have around 25% of my course filled with what is called....
Materials and processing. that is where you must learn about every single material and item in use today (cambridge material selector, as used by every manufacturing company in the world). and every process needed to create them. thats how you make your moulds, how your forge an item or mass produce chips.
also you learn how much they cost per unit and (importantly) the average failure rate!!. yes thats right there is fail rate! nothing ever made is expected to be 100% full proof, no production run is considered to produce 100% working items either.
Also, 100% of items are not expected to survive transport (another matter)
why do we learn this?
Because you must also know the health and saftey guide lines, and the legislation around them.
why?
Because on the off chance I end up making PSU for MS I need to be able to design the unit, make within cost, and understand the legislation and health and saftey factors sourounding them.
why?
So that when someone points out that its a design flaw I can point out that it isnt and its a faulty bloody item!! and that within the realms of the real world, things do just fail. as nothing is perfect, not even a diamond.

So you can understand that all the books, lectures projects visits to factorys, videos and essays I have had to write regarding the matter most likely do make me more educated on the subject them other ppl here.

So, the point is, and returning to the very start.

A. PSU are designed to run hot, it is not a flaw, its material science.
B. The few that have broken down is a common PSU flaw, its common in all electrical goods, and wouldnt matter if I made it or MS made it, or any other company.
C. You have to understand that there is unfortuantly a slight risk with electrical goods, in this case its 1 man, against 3 million X360 sales. you do the math. the item if anything is bloody well designed, not vice versa. I would hae placed the fail rate of an item like that much higher.

Essentialy there is no fault, and IMO, the guy was a tit for covering an item such as PSU, that has big sticker warning u not to onit.

My other issue is 'blame culture' - its ppl like this, and ppl who feel that 1 in 3000000 is just to unsafe that create a society that sues everyone for bloody every lil thing. it creates more and more legislation untill you have red tape up de ass. and in the end you end up screwing yourself over.

So sorry to sound insulting. its an industry I will one day re-enter and I dont want to have to deal with cocks.

Post by **Best First** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:20 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:
I didn't know about the ninty issue, if i had i would have complained.
I know you didnt know, you dont know everything that happens in ones life, thats not the point, the point is it was an example of how many things fail in life, I shouldnt have to sit here and make a list just to prove that things fail as if you didnt already know.
I mean are you telling me that you didnt know things made by man arnt perfect?
Of course not, so I shouldnt have to list things then.

No one has claimed that nothing else has failed nor has anyone asked you to list them. Either you are arguing with yourself or this is a red herring.

Saying ‘this has happened before’ does not preclude discussion of something.

yes thats right there is fail rate! nothing ever made is expected to be 100% full proof,

again no one is disputing that, but rather who sets these standards and the impact they can have on consumers and how aware consumers are made of this.

Because you must also know the health and saftey guide lines, and the legislation around them.

Their existence doesn’t infer that they are beyond improvement.

most likely do make me more educated on the subject them other ppl here.

I see. Hence your missing of the basic point. No one is stating that any of the things you are listing don’t happen, the suggestion is that in some cases more could be done and in certain cases more should be done to mitigate such risks. This isn’t about science, its about economics.

Doesn’t really justify you essentially telling everyone else to shut up because you are right and they are stupid either. In fact if your points were in any way compelling you wouldn’t have to.

Essentialy there is no fault,

so why do you keep talking about failure rates? If you aren’t even going to argue consistently don’t be surprised when people disagree with you.

My other issue is 'blame culture' - its ppl like this, and ppl who feel that 1 in 3000000 is just to unsafe

its 1: 1 when it happens to you. Oh, don’t worry mate, you’re just a statistical unliklyhood, shame about your house though.

that create a society that sues everyone for bloody every lil thing.

This is hardly the same as suing a hot drinks vendor for serving you a hot drink that did not warn it was a hot drink. It’s much harder to make a case for common sense when it comes to electrical goods as the majority of people do not understand the inner workings in any real detail. Given that the suggestion of more visible or emphatic warnings where relevant hardly seems like a life ending suggestion.

People wanting companies to take responsibility for their actions are not the same as people looking to make a quick buck. If anything such a drive would ultimatly protect corporations from litigation.

it creates more and more legislation untill you have red tape up de ass. and in the end you end up screwing yourself over.

How would having legislation that promotes clearer warnings on subjects that common sense doesn’t necessarily cover (how many people learn about CPUs at school or deal with them on an intimate basis in daily life?) constitute ‘screwing yourself over’?

its an industry I will one day re-enter and I don’t want to have to deal with cocks.

well judging by your behaviour in this topic you seem to have created something of a gordian knot for yourself on that front.

Seriously your attitude in both this and the topic in the news forum is getting close to beyond the pale – I suggest you calm down a bit and consider what you are typing a bit more – the way your are responding is unnecessary, especially given the topics in question.

divebomb · Post by **divebomb** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:45 pm

I found this earlier, pretty funny

http://www.smashmyxbox.com

Couldn't help but chuckle.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:07 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:Also, 100% of items are not expected to survive transport (another matter)

Ouch. It's a wonder my latest order of Doctor Who DVDs from Play arrived in one piece, then.

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:35 pm

Yeah... It seems as if Mark's been in a bad mood recently..

I think that you, Besters, should talk to him in private and ask him if it may be that he's having some personal problems.

divebomb wrote:I found this earlier, pretty funny

http://www.smashmyxbox.com

Couldn't help but chuckle.

It's... so

f***ing beautiful... DO IT AGAIN!

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:49 pm

no im not in a bad mood, and find everything said ******* insulting to be honest.

The pathetic way of quoting lil sentances and crap in order to win an argument is so sodding childish I cant be bothered any more.

think what you like - personaly i dont give a toss.

Post by **Best First** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:16 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:no im not in a bad mood

mmm, evidently. Either way i suggest you rethink how you are talking to people here - you are creating a bad atmosphere and its understandably pissing a number of people off.

And how is qouting what people say in order to respond to them 'childish?' What a joke. Not to mention a fantastic cop out.