Last Doctor Who? [inc. spoilers]

Post by **Kaylee** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:52 pm

Very enjoyable...

Much as I was enthralled by it I felt the ending was rushed... and I'm not overly keen on the 'TARDIS has magical powers and fixes everything' shtick, it makes all the build up feel like a complete cop-out. All that work, all that drama, then it comes down to 'yeah but we have this weird and wonderful thing that just makes it all better'. shame

That and I still don't understand 'bad wolf'. I get its a message... but why that? I'm assuming 'Bad Wolf Corporation' was the original (i.e. unaffected by Rose) and the rest she scattered throughout time to tell her to come back to 'bad wolf'.

And why did the timestream kill the doctor but not rose? O_o

David Tennant is very attractive tho imo ^_^

I liked the way that the actual story had no relation to any of the theories buzzing around ^_^ The emperor dalek was cool too.

I'm assuming the first episode of the next series will clear up who was and was not brought back to life, what happens to the ever-loveable Cap'n Jack etc.

So yeah, spectacular and very watchable but has left me going 'huh?' a bit.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:58 pm

he is pretty in a gaunt kinda way

I thought that was a bit poo -what can we do? I know rose can see in time and like do everything...

no surprise to any of it, and lets be honest insted of jellyfish darlek head blokey, Davross would have been cooler

yeah thats crap bille got super powers, ... bollox

Post by **Kaylee** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:01 pm

he vewy pwetty ^_^

its a shame really, if it weren't for that utter plot device to save the day that would have been very cool. still very good tho.

thing with Davros is everyone (including me) was expecting it. It's nice to has a little bit of a surprise ^_^ Speaking of which, the bad wolf thing wasn't have as twisty as I would have liked

ho hum.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:05 pm

that was my issue with it, i was expecting, davross, or the master or somthing else really like, erm cool. they just gave rose super powers and that seemed a bit tacky.

there was no like, COOL bit...

Post by **Kaylee** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:08 pm

but david tennant is pwetty...?

edit- thats another thing, what happened to the whole build up with mickey?? there was an excellent story there waiting to happen... then he just shrugged and decided 'yeah ill be a background character and a doormat'. bah!

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:55 pm

Argh! What a bloody cop-out!
It got to ten minutes before the end and I thought 'this is either going to be very clever or very crap'. Clever it was not.
So, when the poop hits the air conditioning in the next series, all the Doc has to do is look into the Tardis disco light and dissolve his enemies - then bring any dead back to life.
And I though Cap Jack died in a cool way - how disrespectful to just revive him.
I heard somewhere that that Eccleston fella was abck in the next series. How will that work? And I so don't like the actor who's playing the new Doc - in just ten seconds he turned me off the entire series. Well done that fella. Hope they kill him in the Christmas ep and have some bizarre reverse-regeneration to bring the other guy back.
Bad wolf. BAD WOLF.
Poop.

Post by **Kaylee** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:01 pm

Ol' Ecclestone is done now for good AFAIK. Unless they're going to do a crossover where current Doctor meets old Doctors.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:17 pm

Oh well. Hope that the other Doctor dies real quick - 'Cassanova' got on my nips.

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:25 pm

I'm not a huge 'Doctor' fan, and I only saw 4 of the new episodes (Rose's dad, first part of the gas-mask-faced-people, and the last two) but I really enjoyed them. I felt this episode was a bit of a cop out, but an enjoyable one none the less. Bit gutted I missed the 'last Dalek' episode to be honest-seeing that Dalek all dirty and chained up was more menacing than the entire Dalek fleet.

The biggest shame to me was the loss of Chris Eccleston-he's managed to bug the **** out of me in everything else he's been in, but as the Doctor I thought he really shone. Thought the new Doc was a bit of a tool, but it's unfair to judge him based on a) 10 seconds of screen time, and B) still wanting Eccleston to be the Doc.

All in all, good stuff.

Post by **Denyer** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:31 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:Unless they're going to do a crossover where current Doctor meets old Doctors.

Hope so. Been a while, outside of books.

Post by **Best First** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:38 pm

i thought it was ace.

Post by **Kaylee** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:45 pm

Best First wrote:i thought it was ace.

What was she doing in it?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:51 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:
Best First wrote:i thought it was ace.
What was she doing in it?

Giving the Daleks a very 'hands-on' Baseball lesson?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:10 am

Uh, I'm surprised at the negativity.

The Bad Wolf twist was excellent. I never ever would have guessed it was Rose. You call it 'plot device', I don't see it that the Tardis can bring anyone back, but that 'being one with the time vortex' sort of does, though it kills you, so its not exactly reccomended.

Rose didn't die cause the Doc 'absorbed' it with the kiss. (which was also a neat way of getting them to snog without the fanboys going ape).

Brill it was, bloody brilliant.

Next season, Cybermen!

Post by **Kaylee** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:43 am

Sorry babe I do call it plot device.

Build up to a huge, dramatic situation which was neutralised by some random property the TARDIS has suddenly been empowered with which we've never seen before. If it can do that, why didn't some Time Lords sacrifice themselves to end the great time war by merging with the time vortex's of their TARDIS'es without having to wipe themselves out of existence?

Or, why didn't the Doctor just merge with it at the start and wipe the Dalek's out and then regenerate? It seems to make less sense the more I think about it o.O

We've apparently got the power to wash away our enemies, rebuild all the damage they've done and it only costs one life. Time Lords have multiple lives anyway.

I still don't understand why the doctor died and rose didn't- the doctor did 'absorb' it, he also then appeared to spit it all out back at the TARDIS. It implied to me that there was some residual left over that killed him. Why didn't it also kill rose?

The episode had some beautiful sentiment, wonderful characters in it and was certainly an emotional rollercoaster but its still got what was for me a very lazily resolved climax. evil evil evil {wave of magic wand} ah happiness!

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:18 am

Karl Lynch wrote:
We've apparently got the power to wash away our enemies, rebuild all the damage they've done and it only costs one life. Time Lords have multiple lives anyway.

I'm not sure they have the power to do anything. Its probably too unpredictable.

And I find it hard to imagine hordes of Kamekaze timelords. Not quite their style.

By the way, my fave bit of the episode was probably when that Dalek said 'Exterminate' out in space and you couldn't hear but could tell by the flashing lights.

I think Tennant's gonna be great.

Post by **Denyer** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:30 am

Autobloke wrote:I though Cap Jack died in a cool way - how disrespectful to just revive him.

I'm sure he disagrees.

Would like to know a bit more about this 'Heart of the TARDIS' stuff... IIRC there's no central navigation with Gallifrey gone? What effect does that have?

That and I still don't understand 'bad wolf'. I get its a message... but why that? I'm assuming 'Bad Wolf Corporation' was the original (i.e. unaffected by Rose) and the rest she scattered throughout time to tell her to come back to 'bad wolf'.

Also: reverse the floW.

Post by **Kaylee** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:31 am

spiderfrommars wrote:
Karl Lynch wrote:
We've apparently got the power to wash away our enemies, rebuild all the damage they've done and it only costs one life. Time Lords have multiple lives anyway.

I'm not sure they have the power to do anything. Its probably too unpredictable.

And I find it hard to imagine hordes of Kamekaze timelords. Not quite their style.

You'd just need one, going from what happened on Satellite 5 ^_^

Also: reverse the floW.

floW daB to be accurate

By the way, my fave bit of the episode was probably when that Dalek said 'Exterminate' out in space and you couldn't hear but could tell by the flashing lights.

I think Tennant's gonna be great.[/quote]

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:23 pm

plot device -

all is lost,
ppl are dead

?

rose looks at Tardis, everybody is happy.

naff.

I was sitting round some friends house, about 10 of us just started laughing at how convienent it was - blah. do that everythime it gos wrong then

Post by **Denyer** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:41 pm

"If, say, Superman has got to come in and this baddie beats him up a bit, then Superman rallies and comes back, then what I have to do is disguise that enough so that the readers don't realise they've been reading the same story all their life. That's where the creativity comes in. The bad guy comes in and all the good guys kick his arse, that's eventually every issue of JLA, but you fill it with ideas that will set people's heads off in a different direction by making them think about scientific or philosophical stuff, or just the idea of what a superhero could really do with their powers."
—Grant Morrison

do that everythime it gos wrong then

As I saw it, the situation was dependent on debris (the emperor Dalek) from the time war. It's not a cure-all.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:18 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:
Best First wrote:i thought it was ace.
What was she doing in it?

Sophie Aldred. Yum (until she got old).

I considered buying 'Second Coming' - was Eccleston any good in that? (that was him weren't it?)

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:59 pm

Good episode again.

i think some people were negative because the edn was too deus ex machina

By the was I assumed Rose didn't die because the Doc removed the time stuff from her and one he had it he could repair the damage before sending ti back to the TARDIS. The BAd Wolf resolution was quite smart too.

The regeneration was good. Davidson still has the best final moments of any Doctor but Eccleson was brilliantly understated as he realised he was dying and needed to say his final words to Rose.

Tennants first moments as the Doctor were class and really funny:
"Hello. Now....Hmmmmm hmmmmmm hmmmmmm, new teeth!.....weird. Now when was I? Ah yes, Barcelona"

I think I might really enjoy him as a Doc. But a leather jacket does not suit him.

A bit of a deus ex machina end to it. The TARDIS giving Rose the power to wipe out the Daleks but the action and suspense were second to none through out.

When the daleks flew up by the wondow was terrifying because the way the head lights flashed but you could hear no sound but just knew they were shouting "exterminate" was a great moment.

I hope for a future 2 Doc's story. Sil McCoy still looks similar to how he does when he finished it in '96 and could effortlesy fit back into the role.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:57 am

Autobloke wrote:I considered buying 'Second Coming' - was Eccleston any good in that? (that was him weren't it?)

I thought it was brilliant. Maybe it's just me and my penchant for religious-themed drama though.

Post by **Best First** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:23 pm

Denyer wrote:"If, say, Superman has got to come in and this baddie beats him up a bit, then Superman rallies and comes back, then what I have to do is disguise that enough so that the readers don't realise they've been reading the same story all their life. That's where the creativity comes in. The bad guy comes in and all the good guys kick his arse, that's eventually every issue of JLA, but you fill it with ideas that will set people's heads off in a different direction by making them think about scientific or philosophical stuff, or just the idea of what a superhero could really do with their powers."
—Grant Morrison

Totally - its no more of a plot device than a 'Delta wave'. To be honest the whole term plot device always strikes me as an odd one, its like, "yes, and?".

Plus it in no way came across as something you could rely on to fix problems, Rose basically turned herself into a God - its not the kind of solution the Doctor would ever employ.

For me the reason it was so good was the characterisation and the way the relationships played out anyway.

Plus my Dad rang me and said "how god ws that?" - and that never happens.

Best British Family TV of the last.... bloody ages.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm

Why not do that every time it goes wrong? Because it basically kills whomsoever absorbs the power? That a good enough reason?

Struck me as a bit of a convenience, but the whole sentient time vortex thing is well established mythology, so it's not as if they cooked the whole thing up as a way of getting around the problem. Having all the Daleks just evaporate is fairly pony, but I can forgive it.

Genuinely got chills up my spine on the reveal of the "Bad Wolf" grafitti on the ground.

Captain Jack's "Yeah, come on then" death was well played. Normally I'd say his deus ex machina resurrection undermined it, but the fact that the Doctor didn't know what Rose had done and Rose can't remember compensates for that. Very bittersweet... brought back from the dead only to be left behind.

Wasn't impressed by the inconsistency of the forcefield's range during the face-off with the Emporer... the Doc walked well outside the confines of where the blasts were dissipating. But I guess that when that's my main gripe, it can't be too bad.

So, yeah. Enjoyed it.

Post by **Kaylee** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:13 pm

Brendocon wrote:Why not do that every time it goes wrong? Because it basically kills whomsoever absorbs the power? That a good enough reason?

As oppose to the time lords brilliant strategy for destroying the daleks, which involved everyone being killed rather than just one volunteer?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:26 pm

Hey, as a one-off last-throw strategy "everybody dies" has always worked for me.

It's just not the sort of thing you want to balls up, nor the sort of thing you're going to try again... mainly because of the whole not being able to try again thing...

Post by **Kaylee** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:33 pm

Brendocon wrote:Hey, as a one-off last-throw strategy "everybody dies" has always worked for me.

It's just not the sort of thing you want to balls up, nor the sort of thing you're going to try again... mainly because of the whole not being able to try again thing...

I just can't figure it out... its really confusing

timelords: we fought a huge war against the daleks that (appeared to) wipe out half the galaxy and took us all out in the process!

rose: oooh look the TARDIS made me into a god for 5 minutes (after which time I would have died) but long enough to destroy the daleks and bring back everyone who died!

timelords: bollocks... why didn't we think of that?? we could have sacrified just one of us instead of all of us and half the universe! oh well... live and learn... er... wait...?

it makes my brain hurt!

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:35 pm

I think there is still more to be revealed about the Time War.

Post by **Kaylee** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:36 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:I think there is still more to be revealed about the Time War.

Maybe thats what the Christmas Special will be about? {looks hopeful}