Nintendo Revolution

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:16 pm

Im sure they will make profit, as they must have ppl who look into this.

I just wonder when are they going to get stung like Sega did, the DC was an excellent machine, with lots of great games but made them bust.

I hope ninty doesnt screw it up

Post by **Best First** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:57 pm

me too.

i keep forgetting i own a dreamcast...

edit

How much do Ninty really stand to lose if they stop making consoles? They have always underpriced them and made the money on the software.

Obvioulsy they lose the licensing fees but they would also lose the cost of creating and manufacturing the consoles, so how out of pocket would they really be?

I'm probably missing something huge, but it seems to me if they really focussed on their true srength theyt coul dbe just as successful.

But on the other side i will be sad when they finally give up the console ghost.

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:45 pm

I think you may be overlooking one detail when it comes to Nintendo going software only, and that's that the people that buy a Nintendo-machine does it indeed because they like Nintendo-games.

But those that don't generally buy either Sony or MicroDaft, because they obviously prefer the kind of games that these platforms ussually obtain.

Hence I'm not really certain that Nintendo have much of a market releasing software to other platforms, mainly because there aren't that many of their potential customers there.

It may sound hollow, but I think there's atleast a hint of truth in this 'point'.

Post by **Kaylee** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:39 pm

I'm curious how long term Nintendo are thinking.

Their new machine won't compete with the other two directly, it'll just be the usual clutch of Nintendo titles with the big selling point being all the original games being made available for free. I think we can agree that is the main niche they've driving for. More of the same and selling it on the grounds of their past successes.

I want to know what they think will happen when everyone owns one of these consoles.

Pretend we jump 4 years into the future and they're planning the next console after the Revolution... they've proven this time round they can't match the other manufacturers in terms of power, by then they will probably have scraped the barrel dry for yet more Mario-milking games, and they've already given away all their previous successes for free.

Er, what now?

If I ran Nintendo the temptation to put a monthly charge on running the previous games would have won. Something like $5 for 50 games per month, going to $7.50 for 100 games and so on. Worldwide that would generate huge fees, which could fund development into new hardware to produce new games and new ideas.

As it is I feel whilst it will presumably make profit in the short term, what happens when you've whored out all your intellectual properties and brought out all your usual stock titles?

There's no super-machine to produce a new gaming experience, no money to be made from old glories as they've all been given away and you've run out of different ways of repackaging Mario, Wario, Yoshi, Zelda and Metroid Prime.

I'm assuming at that point they'll all just walk slowly out of shot saying "What do we do now?" like in a Spike Milligan sketch...

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:10 pm

Pred, if people could buy Mario/Zelda/Metroid on other consoles, a lot of people would go, "Why buy a Nintendo Console?", just like a lot of people wouldn't buy an XBox if there wasn't a Halo, and way back in the day, people wouldn't have bought a PS2 if they could get GTAIII, GT, and MGS2 on other platforms at the time.

Best, how much money do Sony and MS really make on the consoles, esp MS? Money is made on software, and liscencing fees, and in this new generation, revenue streams created by downloadable content.

If you're a parent, and you've got a system selling for $400 with $60+ games, and you've got another system selling for $250 with $40 games, which one will you pick if you personally don't give a rat's ass about graphics and processing power?

Again, it's all conjecture, and Ninty's fallen flat on their face in the past in terms of third party support, but in this new generation of game dev, budgets are going to be bigger, and games are going to be fewer because of the resources involved in making them. So if you make a multimillion dollar game on PS3, it's got to have blockbuster sales numbers. BUT, you can also dev a game on the Revolution for far cheaper, but get in the black a whole lot quicker.

EDIT: Here's an article that discusses a bit of what I'm saying more in depth. The Article In Question

Post by **Kaylee** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:55 am

I'm not entirely convinced that game development is going to be more expensive... I'm sure for a while it will be, but then new tools and processes will come along and the cost will go down.

I think my analogy would run something like saying, back in the days of the 486, that processors over 2GHz would never catch on because the code to be written on them would be so expensive. Tho I appreciate thats an exaggeration.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:08 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: I really dont think ppl understand how good these new systems really are, they will offer new gamming experiences
.

Personally I dont care how powerful a system is, I really do not give a **** myself. None of the PS3 or 360 demos impressed me.

I am fully up for new gaming experiences though. I hope someone can deliver.

I don't want to get bored of games

and I can already feel the rot settling in.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:34 pm

you wrnt impressed by a man holding two cups in reality and controller water in virtua state? - i thought was mega, interaction on a totaly pointless lvl.

Motocross took driving a to pa rpoper conclusion
and
Killzone 2, well it looked like a manga, live the experience suddenly felt a whole lot more real.

Ill come back to it again tho, power gives you options. the water demo whilst simple takes horrible math calculations, and id be surprised if even the X360 would cope aswell in real time.

Nintendos machine, due to lack of power lacks options. lack of options = the stale games you speak of as you cannot experiement with new ideas as easily.

Power = better gameplay.

Hound · Post by **Hound** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:44 pm

power= better graphics

That to me doesnt immediately mean better games.

In the hands of a talented developer it could reap rewards, but how many innovative companies are going to be able to afford to develop such titles when they generally get ignored and sell like crap? Very few.

Power does open up lots of options, but lets take the next GTA game, it will play exactly like the previous 3d ones, only looking much prettier. Gran Turismo will look virtually lifelike, but still be exactly the same game it was on ps1 and ps2.

None of the ps3 demos impressed me, they were pretty, but they didnt excite me in the slightest and Killzone and Motocross were confirmed to not actually be 'in game' footage and not even running off of a PS3. I expect the finished games will look pretty close to those demos, but they will play exactly like the PS2 predeccessors, only prettier. Killzone 1 was crap anyway

Post by **Best First** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:09 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: Power = better gameplay.

Thats just not true though is it?

power = the possibility of better game play.

But there is nothing in the way of garuntees.

The X-box is the most powerful of the current crop of consoles, but it wuld be hard to argue it is the most essential in terms of the games available.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:52 pm

sorry

more power = the possiblity of better gameplay.

This is my issue with Nintendo.

you have 3 consoles

A,console 1 = 2D
B,console 2 = 2D+3D
C,console 3 = 2D+3D+New stuff

currently all machines are on B

X360 and PS3 are going to be on C, wheres Nintendo will be on B still.

Whatever there new machine doesn, it wont do anything more impressive, be it graphics, or online play, interaction devices can always just be plugged in. and it lacks the power these two machines have to do it aswell.

For example a VR helmet will work better on PS3 then X360 and Rev. as an example.

The extra power offorded by these more powerfull units allows them to experiemnt more. it allows you more options in creating a game.
I belive if ninty had the power of a PS3, rather then its Rev, it could create a better game.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:09 pm

i can sort of see what you mean Impy, but i've got to say that hyper-real graphics and mega funky interfaces don't necessarily mean better gameplay.

hell, if i want real gameplay, half the time i'll load up an emulator and play some old 8bit & 16bit games, the level of originality and inguniety in some of those games make them far more playable than most modern "graphically rich"/"need a powerful machine to run" games.

but then, maybe that's just me...

[edit]saying that, i'll be jumping on the PS3 band-wagon when it comes out i think.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:16 pm

im not just refering to graphically rich games - that to me is just somthing that in time will reach actually reality and not be in question.

as we already have 16bit games, and 32 etc... and sure u can go replay them to move forward and progress you need more options.

I dont think argument rests with what is better etc... the thing is Ninty are going to enter into a new hardware race. thier hardware isnt as good.

Why enter a race and not want to compete on the same level?

if they are happy to make games at the current level, then stay on the GC.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:27 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:im not just refering to graphically rich games - that to me is just somthing that in time will reach actually reality and not be in question.

as we already have 16bit games, and 32 etc... and sure u can go replay them to move forward and progress you need more options.

no, that's a valid point, i was just referring back to your comment:

more power = the possiblity of better gameplay.

i should have been more concise, whilst technically your statement is very true, i don't think that the trend we have seen in the last few years has really stood up that way. as machines have been getter more and more powerful, we've seen fewer and fewer games with, imho, better and better gameplay (or at least something original)...

the point i was trying to make is that sometimes, some people tend to think that "more power = better gameplay" which, imho, is bollocks.

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote: Why enter a race and not want to compete on the same level?

if they are happy to make games at the current level, then stay on the GC.

it doesn't make sense to me either. sure the Rev is more powerful than the GC, but it's not going to be as powerful as the PS3 or 360... but if it's got better games, then who cares about power?

i'm not saying it's going to have better games tho... but if it doesn't, then you're right... what's the point?

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:38 pm

ok whats the factor thats going to make Nintys games better on thier new system?

Surely its got to be that thier new system has more power then thier current system, and that allows them more options?
Wouldnt it be fair to assume that if you had even more power you could make even better games?

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:05 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:Wouldnt it be fair to assume that if you had even more power you could make even better games?

depends on what you think makes a game "better"?

more power could make games more realistic, give them better graphics etc... but it doesn't mean that the game is going to be more playable or enjoyable or more fun, hence my comparison to 8bit/16bit games earlier.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:28 pm

Legion wrote:
Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:Wouldnt it be fair to assume that if you had even more power you could make even better games?
depends on what you think makes a game "better"?

Its hard to define, but if ninty belives it needs a more powerfull console then its current crop to make games on, then they must be under the impression that more power gives them more options, to what id assume allows them in thier minds to make a better game?

Personnaly speaking I play everything from Half-Life 2 to Advanced wars.

Im still excited by the prospect of the equall to say Saving Private Ryan - and at the same time really odd stuff ive seen from Capcom where you can play god on a truly planet sized scale, from outer space and zoom down to a blade of grass if need be.

As ive already been through all the other years I can only progress with what im given. im hoping the extra power offers dev teams the option to create more immersive envrioments or just bend and play with more surreal ideas.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:08 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:Wouldnt it be fair to assume that if you had even more power you could make even better games?

Thirst for power not lead to better gameplay. Lead you to the Dark Side, your thirst for power will.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:11 pm

Jedi Master?

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:20 pm

Wuzza!

It's been a while since we had acctual news in here. But I acctually sorta found some, from an emu-fansite. It's quite kewl. You should all book-mark it. For the heck of it.

http://revolution.dcemu.co.uk/

Apparently there's been a new 'leak' of rev-specs. Have a look-see:

"The specifications, which appeared on blog site Nintendo Centrium, suggest that the system will be powered by two 1.8Ghz IBM PowerPC G5 processors, a 600Mhz graphics chip from ATI and a 7.1 Digital Sound chipset.
The console will apparently sport 128MB of high speed 1T SRAM as main memory, along with 256MB of slower DRAM, while the graphics chip has 12MB of on-board high speed RAM. 6GB proprietary DVD-size discs, designed by Panasonic, would be used for Revolution's games."

Feel free to post any of the other news you can find there or otherplaces here, if you feel the urge.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:03 pm

all it needs now is a cell chip more ram, and really good g card and they might be in with a chance...

oh im so cynical today.

Predabot · Post by **Predabot** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:09 pm

What's a cell-chip, oh techno-savy one? I do realise that that g-card, altho half-good with todays standards is somewhat inferior for the games of tomorrow tho.

Did you notice that noticé about Ninty acctually going to put some kind of fee for there Virtual Console service? It's not quite clear exactly how it will work tho, but they mention some ideas about some games giving you the right to DL their games, I think.

'twould be cool if you buy Legend Of Zelda Revolution, and thereby you get the right to DL the Zelda-games!

And so on. That could acctually work, I think.

Shanti418 · Post by **Shanti418** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:45 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:all it needs now is a cell chip more ram, and really good g card and they might be in with a chance...

oh im so cynical today.

JUST today, eh?

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:34 pm

Predabot wrote:What's a cell-chip, oh techno-savy one? I do realise that that g-card, altho half-good with todays standards is somewhat inferior for the games of tomorrow tho.

Did you notice that noticé about Ninty acctually going to put some kind of fee for there Virtual Console service? It's not quite clear exactly how it will work tho, but they mention some ideas about some games giving you the right to DL their games, I think.

'twould be cool if you buy Legend Of Zelda Revolution, and thereby you get the right to DL the Zelda-games! And so on. That could acctually work, I think.

Cell Chip - the most powerfull computer chip in the world? in the PS3
Dude catch up this chip is so fast its changed computing.

There isnt much Ram in there either - and in comparison to the G-card in PS3 a shader based unit, its just meh.

Overall the system, like ninty said, is only a bit more powerfull then its current system, hence what ive been saying - why bother?

As for the game download, thats 'novel' but I can do that already pretty much - and reports suggest both MS and Sony will follow suit.

So its underpowered console that will be producing games you have already seen, the big point will be its controll system, which is going to be somthing special or Ninty is gonna get left behind. - much like GC really.

Personnaly I think they should stick to handhelds and games, and leave the Hardware to the big boys.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:49 pm

I really like that Ninty are practically giving away free games (the old ones you can download for free).
I for one will be playing Icehockey with my mates

And yes, they are already available for free on the internet - but I want a gamepad damnit.

I'll be buying the Revolution for the old games (and probably some new ones), and the PS3 for Pro Evolution Soccer.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:09 pm

the games will not be free to download!

they said this at a press conference last week - im sure the charge will be low, but still...

As I have every decent game for every nity system in reality and on my harddrive, its funny how many you bother to play. I turned on Goldeneye the other day, its bloody awfull...
Mario is still very addictive.

I bet Sony has thier back-cat online too

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:20 pm

Bah. I'm sure ther'll be a way to get the games for free

I mostly use my videogames for multiplayer.
And there's where the old NES/Snes/whataver games come in.
Just plain simple fun

Me and my mate played California Games (Sega 8 bit system) a couple of hours a day, for a whole week.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:33 pm

you can get them online now!

whats going to be interesting is if theres a way to access the web via revouloution, as then i can download anything and play it...

Its still a gimmick.

Obfleur · Post by **Obfleur** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:38 pm

Yes, I can get them online (you mean emulator-stuff?).
But I want to play it on my big, nice tv, with nice big gamepads.

I dont want to sit in front of the computer, sharing the keyboard with my mate.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:45 pm

you can buy a cart tool for your snes, download games to it, 1000's of them on one cart. and you can do the same for your N64.

I bet it costs less then a Rev...