Ways that Religion affects the Lives on the Non Religious?

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:43 am

I'd like to get a running tally going here. In what ways does religion shape the lives of people who don't believe in a God?

I'll get us started.

Christian morals keep homosexual couples from being married.

The US has "In God we Trust" attached to various government issued-items.

In court, people must swear on a copy of the Holy Bible.

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:32 am

you dont HAVE to swear on the Bible. In God We Trust is right along lines of having pictures of royalty on currency. Its tradition, even if there isnt power to it.

The banning of gay marraige is just stupid.

saysadie · Post by **saysadie** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:46 am

... Why?

I don't usually notice, tbh...

...Well, there's the obvious, holidays (not necc. celebrated by all, but by a good percentage)... Christmas, Easter, etc have been "Christianized" from pagan festivals; now mostly commercial but still celebrated by people who believe in God to varying degrees and by people like my family who just use it to get together, eat lots and watch the kids hunt for eggs...

Oh, and then there's this...

http://www.snopes.com/language/phrases/blessyou.htm

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:16 am

Optimus Prime Rib wrote:In God We Trust is right along lines of having pictures of royalty on currency. .

I fail to see the connection between an invisible man in the sky and former monarchs that are both real and important, politically, socially, and historically.

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:44 am

and thus it turns into another christian flame post. I was simply stating that some consider God and Royalty to be outmoded and not needed, and yet still used in everyday currency.

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:09 am

I'm not sure what you really want to achieve by posting this? Religion (for which read Christianity) is the foundation for most laws in the UK and USA. It's influences help shape social attitudes and taboos also.

That's pretty much it really- it affects everyone fundamentally.

Could probably say more interesting stuff but I'm still recovering from hospital yesterday.

Master_Fwiffo · Post by **Master_Fwiffo** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:45 am

Optimus Prime Rib wrote:and thus it turns into another christian flame post.

As if it were ever destined to be anything else....

-edit-

Could probably say more interesting stuff but I'm still recovering from hospital yesterday.

You were in the hospital? You ok?

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:44 am

I had my birthmark removed- it stretched all the way from my right temple to near the back of my head, about an inch wide, under the hairline. The doctor said it might turn tumurous so it had to go.

The plan was cut it out then just pull the skin over the top and sow it up, and god it hurt something chronic at 3AM this morning x_x

Getting better all the time, I hope... I'm on painkillers atm. Thanks for the thought ^_^

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:33 pm

jessus christ Karl! - you should have said, I know you sent me a message but ive been without a brain for the last few weeks...

I hope you all the best, and next time you come to bournemouth please come and find me!

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:56 pm

Well im on Easter Hols for a bit now so mebbe I'll take a road trip

Anyone for a chorus of 'If Only I Had a Brain'?

Eline · Post by **Eline** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:11 pm

Poor Karly!

*hug*

Are you even prettier now?

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:28 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:I'm not sure what you really want to achieve by posting this?

I'm writing a paper on the subject and I'm looking for some points (from people outside my immediate area) I may have missed.

jboyler · Post by **jboyler** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:01 pm

I fail to see the connection between an invisible man in the sky and former monarchs that are both real and important, politically, socially, and historically.

Because for thousands of years people in all cultures have justified their monarchies by saying that rulers had been chosen by God, or were somehow blessed. The Dark and Middle Age societies in Europe believed that the ranks of nobility were somehow established by God and, therefore, immutable and unnopposable. In Italy, particularly, the Pope had all the authority and indulgences of a king.

Some of the religious conflicts of the past, such as the Crusades and the schism between Catholic and Protestants, changed the face of the world, and in some ways we are still trying to resolve the conflicts they caused.

And by the way, Christianity can be blamed for the Dark Age when early Clergy actively attempted to repress and destroy academic knowledge. On the other hand, what ancient learning was preserved was saved in monasteries, so Christian Monks could also be credited with saving it. (Re: How the Irish saved civilization) (Also along these lines, "Beowulf," the worlds oldest piece of literature, only survived because it was recorded by an unknown monk)

In other countries, like Japan, the monarchy took things a step further and claimed that their Emperor was, in fact, God.

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:13 pm

Excellent point, jboyler!

PS- Aha, I see. Interesting... I'll keep my neo-communist thoughts out of it

:D

Eline- I look all bloody and stitchy atm

T'will get better tho.

Metal Vendetta · Post by **Metal Vendetta** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:11 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:Eline- I look all bloody and stitchy atm T'will get better tho.

Ooh, sounds sore. Best of luck recuperating.

Post by **Kaylee** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:34 pm

Tankies ^_^

Post by **Denyer** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:16 pm

Professor Smooth wrote:I fail to see the connection between an invisible man in the sky and former monarchs that are both real and important, politically, socially, and historically.

Most of them laid claim to their positions being willed by said invisible bloke, using it as justification to cling to power in situations where their populations wished otherwise.

Karl Lynch wrote:Anyone for a chorus of 'If Only I Had a Brain'?

Get well soon.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:50 pm

Denyer wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:I fail to see the connection between an invisible man in the sky and former monarchs that are both real and important, politically, socially, and historically.
Most of them laid claim to their positions being willed by said invisible bloke, using it as justification to cling to power in situations where their populations wished otherwise.

Granted. However, that does not change the fact that those people who used the invisible man as justification for their power were tremendously important historical figures. Popes, for example, are exceptionally historical figures, not because of metaphysical reasons, but because of their actions towards people on Earth.

sprunkner · Post by **sprunkner** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:36 am

As for religiong affecting the nonreligious, there are a lot of people who come to your door who otherwise wouldn't.

And also there are social situations-- for example, non-Mormon guys don't get a lot of dates in Utah, non-Christian guys don't get a lot of dates in the South, etc.

Karl, I'm glad to hear your face is intact.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:30 pm

Optimus Prime Rib wrote:and thus it turns into another christian flame post. I was simply stating that some consider God and Royalty to be outmoded and not needed, and yet still used in everyday currency.

Gosh, I agree.

Is religion really such everyday topic in the USA? We in middle-Europe barely hear about it unless the current socialist regime decides it's time to scare the clergy a bit again.

Of course, things ought to be different. Here, people weren't free to openly belong to a religious group for 40 years and the socialists/communists got used to the fact that they call the shots in most churches (even in jewish ones).

Nowdays they are upset that the churches actively involve themselves in politics... it's simply because the churches wouldn't like to see their opressors come to power again.

That's perfectly understandable, I think.

So now, how are things in the USA?

jboyler · Post by **jboyler** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:19 pm

BB Shockwave wrote:
Nowdays they are upset that the churches actively involve themselves in politics... it's simply because the churches wouldn't like to see their opressors come to power again.

That's perfectly understandable, I think.

So now, how are things in the USA?

In America, our constitution reads that the government will not make a law to establish a single religion for the entire nation. America likes to see itself as a country that welcomes and tolerates all religions. Over the years, people have evolved an attitude in which we believe the government should be religiously neutral. Many people go on to interpret "neutral government" as meaning "atheist government."

This causes problems when lawmakers are forced to decide cases which conflict with people's religion, such as the issue of abortion, gay marriage, the death penalty, etc. etc. When these issues come up, religious groups and faithful lawmakers will attempt to make their religious beliefs into national policy. This causes a great deal of argument, and such controversies frequently play out on the news.

On the other side are what are called "watchdog groups" such as the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). Organizations such as this intend to promote neutral government and free speech, but end up drawing heavy criticism from biased religious groups that want to replace "Neutral Government" with "Christian Government."

So the bottom line is that Christians find it unnacceptable for the government to do things that conflict with their beliefs, and non-Christians find it unnacceptable for the government to do things in which religion is the sole criteria.

Also, although America has diverse faiths, the overhwelming majority of people are Christian. There aren't enough Muslims and followers of eastern faiths for them to have a large voice in government. (Which is part of the reason that the government needs to be neutral, and neutral should not be interpreted to mean atheist) Besides Christians, the only religion to have a large voice in government is the Jewish community, because many high-placed officials are Jewish and they organize their voting in large blocks.

Nonetheless, as far as religion is concerned, the largest argument is Christian activists against neutral government and watchdog groups.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:52 pm

That was spectacular!

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:10 am

Thanks for summing it up so neatly!

One more question, though... I thought the different states of America can have wildly differing laws, even major ones like the death penalty.Or is there one law-system that's above these state-systems?

jboyler · Post by **jboyler** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:00 pm

I thought the different states of America can have wildly differing laws, even major ones like the death penalty.Or is there one law-system that's above these state-systems?

Excellent question!

In America, each of the fifty states has its own constitution, its own congress, and its own laws. And you are correct that these laws are sometimes wildly varied. However, in addition to the state government there is also a federal government that controls the entire nation, and with it an additional set of laws.

Ideally, power is shared between the state and federal government. However, this can cause a great deal of controversy because sometimes the federal government and the state government disagree.

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:45 pm

They did finally repeal the anti-sodomy law in Louisiana though. And parades were thrown.. Seriously.

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:58 pm

Optimus Prime Rib wrote:They did finally repeal the anti-sodomy law in Louisiana though. And parades were thrown.. Seriously.

Ah yes, the anti-sodomy/anti-oral sex laws... Set up almost exclusively to make homosexuality illegal. Would have worked to if some cops hadn't actually arrested a guy for sodomy that led to the entire thing being declared unconstitutional.

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:48 pm

I read it somewhere... but is it true that in one state preching the theory of evolution is still considered a crime?

jboyler · Post by **jboyler** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:16 pm

Optimus Prime Rib wrote:They did finally repeal the anti-sodomy law in Louisiana though. And parades were thrown.. Seriously.

Yes... that too. (Sodomy and oral is still a crime in the homophobic military, though)

I read it somewhere... but is it true that in one state preching the theory of evolution is still considered a crime?

It wouldn't surprise me. Lots of states have archaic laws that are no longer enforced. (For example, my home state still has laws allowing whites to shoot at indian war parties) There was one notable case in 1925 which has since become known as the Scopes Monkey Trial. According to this website, two states enacted anti-evolution laws. I don't know whether those have since been repealed.

The teaching of evolution in school is another religiouscontroversy in America. Most people agree the evolution, being valid scientific theory, should be taught in school. Conservative religious groups believe that it should not, because it conflicts with their biblical teachings. Interestingly, this debate is isolated to the southern "bible belt" states that have a large population of conservative (not to mention hostile) religious groups.

IMHO, if you aren't going to teach evolution because it conflicts with the Bible, then why do we even teach science and history to begin with?

BB Shockwave · Post by **BB Shockwave** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:03 pm

Yeah, it's weird... considering the catholic church already accepted the evolution theory. As far as I know we should consider what the Bible says about the creation "happened so but not the way it's described there".

My biology teacher (and a catholic priest at the same time) was invited to a talk show at the time the church made the decision to accept the evolution. Was it in 1996 or so?

I don't know whether the other christian churches (and muslims/jews) did accept it though...

Professor Smooth · Post by **Professor Smooth** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:57 pm

Paper is still being written. I'm hoping to have it finished this evening. Here's the basic things that I'll be talking about:

1) Atheist Children are forced to say the Plege of Allegiance in school.
2) Teaching evolution is actually illegal is some places
3) FCC regulations preventing the use of "god damn" "Jesus Christ!" etc.
4) "In God we Trust" on all US currency
5) The fact that homosexuals can't legally marry, adopt (in some states), or openly serve in the military.