Dr Who episodes!

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sun May 15, 2005 12:55 pm

Oh yes. The squeaky kid's voice as well: "Who Am I? etc" Best bit.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Sun May 15, 2005 3:40 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:The new series is shaping up rather nicely isn't it?

Yep. Father's Day was the best so far, though I'm particularly fond of Cornell's previous Who stories, so hardly surprising that I liked it lots.

An Unearthly Child
I'm a bit of a Hartnell newbie, and didn't take that well to his debut. Whilst I gather his portrayal softens in later episodes, I still found it jarring that the Doctor here doesn't come across particularly as a nice man, and isn't very proactive. First episode was by far the best, though the remaining 3 had a very good atmosphere (and I liked the downbeat ending).

Of course, being the first story, it was intended for people who had no idea what the Doctor was supposed to be like, and Hartnell does soften an awful lot during the third story.

Revenge of the Cyberman
A couple of WTF moments, but the three regulars carried this I thought, plus the Cybermen were quite effective (if a little short) - two of them wipe out scores of Vogans for instance. Liked the location filming. Everyone kept escaping capture a little too easily though. (James Bond syndrome - just kill them damnit!)

To be fair, this happens far too much in Classic Series Who, not just in this story. When you've got 4-6 25 minute eps with a cliffhanger ending for each ep, then it's an essential sort of padding.

Pyramids of Mars
Really good stuff... Nice turn from Baker, SJS is probably my fave companion (she's just so sweet, and isn't a bad sniper either!) Very good villain, his face off with the Doctor one of the best scenes I've seen in the series. Liked the supporting turn from Sheard/Mr Bronson - I really felt sorry for him (though didn't the Doctor cock up by leaving him behind?)

Yeah, that didn't make a huge amount of sense.

Remembrance of the Daleks
Probably my fave McCoy story (Fenric close behind). Its brilliant in nearly every way. Plenty of twists, some of the best action scenes in the original series, great explosions, very intimidating and dangerous Daleks. Small complaint: the daleks have a tendency to wobble. Oh, and 80s graffiti visible in most scenes in what is meant to be a 60s period piece.

They were trying a new technology with the Daleks. Instead of the traditional arrangement of small wheels (which required a track to be laid down where the Dalek was supposed to go), they tried a system which was something like 3 balls - thus the Daleks could now handle non-smooth terrain. However, as a result they wobbled. Mind you, the wobbling worked brilliantly for the scene where the Doctor talks the black Dalek into suicide.

Incidentally, I think Remembrance did the stair-climbing Dalek much better than the new series episode Dalek did.

(As an aside, I saw this story in my first year at boarding school and everyone was completely gripped. Sadly, 5 mins into the next ep (was it Happiness Patrol?) the kids lost interest and Coronation Street permanently won out from then on.)

It was indeed Happiness Patrol. Silly kids, if they'd stayed watching Who, then they'd have had the Kandyman etched onto their memories forevermore.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sun May 15, 2005 4:53 pm

A thought on Father's Day.... how come the first Doctor&Rose vanished when Rose saved her dad? Where did they go? Did they cease to exist? Go to an alternate universe? Why couldn't they interact with their future selves?

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Sun May 15, 2005 5:23 pm

Plot hole.

I had a thought about that. I guess as the new timeline takes over the newest events are wiped out first.

Still The Tardis with no interior was a excellent moment. I really didn't expect that.

Darth Aux · Post by **Darth Aux** » Sun May 15, 2005 5:25 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:A thought on Father's Day.... how come the first Doctor&Rose vanished when Rose saved her dad? Where did they go? Did they cease to exist? Go to an alternate universe? Why couldn't they interact with their future selves?

I guess because the first Dr & Rose saw him die and as that no longer happened the realities split?????

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon May 16, 2005 12:49 am

Darth Aux wrote:
spiderfrommars wrote:A thought on Father's Day.... how come the first Doctor&Rose vanished when Rose saved her dad? Where did they go? Did they cease to exist? Go to an alternate universe? Why couldn't they interact with their future selves?
I guess because the first Dr & Rose saw him die and as that no longer happened the realities split?????

Well... according to the Doc a few weeks ago (The Unquiet Dead) the time is in flux and not set, so i see the Who universe as malable (rather than creating alternative realities). when Rose (2) saved her dad's life, who Rose(1) saw get killed, Rose(2) changed time so Rose(1)'s timeline ceased to exist, of course, that raises the quesiton that if Rose(1) didn't then go back because her dad had died, where did Rose(2) come from?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon May 16, 2005 8:28 am

To add to this... At the end there's a revised scene with young Rose and her mum. This time, instead of saying it was a hit and run, she says he ran out in front and a girl held his hand. Does Rose have these new memories as a child?

Yay for time travel discussion!

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon May 16, 2005 9:27 am

yes, she would have those new memories, that's why she had that different voice over at the end... i think... that's also why all the people came back to life, because time had changed so they'd not been eaten in the first place...

it's a bit sketchy, i was hoping for some thing a little more logical from Paul Cornell, (just what was going on with the Tardis in the church exactly?)

Post by **Kaylee** » Mon May 16, 2005 9:58 am

I liked the drama element (tho it felt a bit Eastenders'ish) but I have no clue what was going on with the timelines.

Everyone gets killed and the world gets munched, I got that far... then Rose's dad kills himself.

Now, does time just immediately skip back to the point where he was meant to have died (despite it happening several hours after from our pov), the future is changed and all is well. In which case... why did that happen?

Or does everyone just forget and Earth is fixed (for some reason...) and nobody notices that time has shunted on 2-3 hours.

Rose also asks some very very valid questions I thought-

Why *can* the doctor go round righting wrongs and Rose not do the same? The doctor tampers with stuff all the time and flying things never came after him- like in the Unquiet Dead when he changes Dicken's past by meeting him.

And why exactly can't the Doctor just go back in time and save Gallifrey? It's all very well saying how he'd like to, what's stopping him?

Then again Dr Who's always had kind of a weird take on the science of time travel (I guess there's such a thing). I'm assuming it's meant to just run 'Well her Dad got killed in the end so it all sorted itself out".

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon May 16, 2005 2:12 pm

I think it's something (loosely) like this:

When Rose's dad jumped infront of the car and died, time was changed again so that nothing that had happened before had happened (although of course, it had because he hadn't died where he originally had). One can guess that in this revised timeline, Rose asks the Doc to take her back to when her dad died outside the church (rather than outside their flat).

The Docs says "Go to him" in the same way he did when they first witnessed him getting knocked down in the original timeline, suggesting to me that this was the new version of the original incident...

There was no longer any wound in time, even though Rose/her Dad changing the timeline caused the wound in the first place... so no one had been munched...

As to why the Doc doesn't cause this sort of problems normally, is, i think due to a number of factors... mainly two actually.
1) The Timelords used to make sure that this sort of crap didn't happen.
2) The Doc never changed "his own" history... what Rose did had a major impact on her own personal timeline and caused a paradox.

Post by **Kaylee** » Mon May 16, 2005 2:24 pm

Legion wrote: 2) The Doc never changed "his own" history... what Rose did had a major impact on her own personal timeline and caused a paradox.

aah that sounds plausible, thanks ^_^

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon May 16, 2005 2:26 pm

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon May 16, 2005 3:07 pm

Legion wrote:
When Rose's dad jumped infront of the car and died, time was changed again so that nothing that had happened before had happened (although of course, it had because he hadn't died where he originally had). One can guess that in this revised timeline, Rose asks the Doc to take her back to when her dad died outside the church (rather than outside their flat).

The Docs says "Go to him" in the same way he did when they first witnessed him getting knocked down in the original timeline, suggesting to me that this was the new version of the original incident...

I think a lightbulb just went on in my head.

I'd assumed that the only person who witnessed/remembered the whole adventure was Rose. Do you think the Doctor might tho?

The fun is reading different outcomes from these things.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Mon May 16, 2005 4:51 pm

Legion wrote:it's a bit sketchy, i was hoping for some thing a little more logical from Paul Cornell, (just what was going on with the Tardis in the church exactly?)

I'm not sure his debut Who novel (Timewyrm: Revelation) was totally logical either.

spiderfrommars wrote:I'd assumed that the only person who witnessed/remembered the whole adventure was Rose. Do you think the Doctor might tho?

Time travellers in Who seem to be affected by temporal phenomena differently to "normal" people. It's quite plausible that the Doctor and Rose wouldn't be as affected by the memory wipe as everybody else, though it's unclear what happens to the Doctor and Rose's personal timelines as a result.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon May 16, 2005 7:23 pm

Karl Lynch wrote:
Legion wrote: 2) The Doc never changed "his own" history... what Rose did had a major impact on her own personal timeline and caused a paradox.
aah that sounds plausible, thanks ^_^

It's a basic* paradox.

Why, if Rose went back in time and saved her father from being killed, would Rose then have gone back in time to that point?

The original Rose and Doctor would probably have disappeared due to the second Rose irrecoverably changing their version of events. They were returned to their own timeline, with no memory of what had just taken place.

After all, the Doctor did say that when the timeline got back on track, everyone would forget the incident with the invaders.

*As opposed to the convoluted transgender paradox.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:44 pm

Well back to business after all that Star Wars nonsense...

The Aztecs
Nice performance from Hartnell (the Doctor courting! He's gone up in the world with Rose, eh?), good to see Ian do action, and Barbara's character is quite interesting. Quite dark in tone, loved the "...not one line!" comment (though it seems a contradiction in the face of the series).

The Mind Robber
Well you can tell this was made in the 60s as its quite groovy baby. Several enduring images (the Unicorn, Medusa, toy soldiers, tardis exploding, Jamie's face change) though I was still a bit fidgety.

The Seeds of Death
Long-winded and naff looking in the main, it took ages to get going. Thought the leader of the Ice Warriors on the moon looked creepy, though his warriors definitely weren't. Liked the effect when people got melted tho.

Carnival of Monsters
Strange that the Drashiks (sp?) looked great yet the plesiosaur looked gash. All in all an inventive story if slightly gaudy looking.

The Android Invasion
I think I've said before that Tom Baker and SJS make silly stories watchable and this is another good example. There's good scenes (soldier jumping off cliff, Sarah's face falling off, the Doc fighting his double) but the baddies' plan is nonsense.

Keeper of Traken
Nice to see how Nyssa and the new Master got introduced. Good performance by Ainley, and Adric isn't too annoying. You can tell Baker's Doctor is on his last legs (he looked very snotty in one scene). Statue looked good.

Mawdryn Undead
Liked this a lot, tho the first 5 mins were a waste. Mawdryn was a villain with an original/interesting plan for once, I loved the Doctor's dilemma at the end. Brigadier was good value, liked the bit when the companions started ageing, and good to see a timetravel plot central to proceedings for a change.

The Awakening
Twas diverting enough. I thought the face in the wall looked very effective indeed, woulda given little tykes nightmares no doubt.

Frontios
A bit drab in its presentation I thought, but a good cast, nasty violence and a good turn from Davison elevated this.

Planet of Fire
Loved the glossy location filming and Peri in a bikini. Good use of the Master and Kamelion. Nice to see the Fifth Doc in slightly different wardrobe for a change. Good send off for Turlough.

Time and the Rani
I was surprised by how good the effects were, and how amusing I found Kate O' Mara's impersonation (pisstake?) of Langford. But not very involving, and a truly terrible first scene for McCoy (not the regeneration but the bit when he's clowning around with the Rani). The wardrobe scene just seemed to magnify how much the series had fallen from grace as well.

Silver Nemesis
Kind of Remembrance of the Daleks but without the charm isn't it? I enjoyed the action scenes, even though the Cybermen have lost their menace. Overall, innoffensive tho.

Can't wait for 'Parting of the Ways' next week. Its gonna be amazing.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 10:14 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:Can't wait for 'Parting of the Ways' next week. Its gonna be amazing.

It's WAR, Baby! Yeah!

Be interesting to find out how Jack knows about Dalek ships, though.

Post by **Best First** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:54 pm

That was class.

Doktor!

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:02 am

yesterday's "Doctor Who" was brilliant. I really can't wait for the next one. This is series has been shaping up nicely and the "Bad Wolf" connection through out was nicely done.This was an episode that could have been annoying but was done brilliantly and got betetr and betetr as it went on.

Nice to see the Dalek's back to their evil best though I'm pretty certain who their saviour from the Time War is.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:01 pm

was half watching it - is Andross about?

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:42 pm

Davross. Stavross. Or something like that.
Rose 'dying' was a bit crap though. The moment that happened I went 'Oh dear, that was badly done' - there was no way the writers would let a starring character die like that - even for shock value. It was probably done for that effect, but SO obviously wasn't what it seemed that it was cringeworthy when it happened.
I like how the Big Brother music was constant, loud and annoying in those scenes - just like the way the real program affects me.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:57 pm

Autobloke wrote:Davross. Stavross. Or something like that.

Hallo, Peeps! Is Davros 'ere! What say we get down to some of that, 'ow you say, extermination business, eh? That'll teach the Doctor for shutting down my Kebab house, and no mistake!

Jetfire wrote:Nice to see the Dalek's back to their evil best though I'm pretty certain who their saviour from the Time War is.

I'm guessing it's one of the following:

1) Davros (either in his wheelchair, or his Emperor Dalek get-up).
2) Emperor Dalek (or Davros in his Emperor Dalek get-up).
3) A Cyberman (deep voice'n'all).
4) The Master (not sure exactly how it could be, though).
5) The Dalek from 'Dalek' (self-extermination, my arse!).
6) Adam (all spiked up, and nowhere to go!).
7) Mystery Guest Villain, Please Sign In (snigger!).

Still, it'll be fun, whoever the deep voice belongs to.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:59 pm

Tom Baker.

Repeat after me: "Tom Baaaaaakerrrrr. Yeeeeeessssss."

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:02 pm

Autobloke wrote:Tom Baker.

Britain, Britain, Britain.

Where millions of hapless humans are slaves to the dominating Dalek invasion force.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:05 pm

Tony Blair invasion force.

That Captain Jack likes his bread buttered on both sides too, doesn't he?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:13 pm

Well, what can he say?

He's a 51st Century Guy!

Jetfire · Post by **Jetfire** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:16 pm

Rebis wrote:
Autobloke wrote:Davross. Stavross. Or something like that.
I'm guessing it's one of the following:

1) Davros (either in his wheelchair, or his Emperor Dalek get-up).
2) Emperor Dalek (or Davros in his Emperor Dalek get-up).

Those are my choices. I'm certain it's Davros in one form or another.

Autobloke · Post by **Autobloke** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:35 pm

I can't imagine that the writers would go with anything else. Unless they wanted to totally surprise old Dr. Who fans with something completely new.
Nope, it's Stavros. I'd bet the forum on it.

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:42 am

Rebis wrote:6) Adam (all spiked up, and nowhere to go!).

Interesting.

What? Oh. Different Adam. My mistake!

7) Mystery Guest Villain, Please Sign In (snigger!).

Still, it'll be fun, whoever the deep voice belongs to.

My money's on the TARDIS.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:02 am

"The Daleks survive in meeeeeeeeeeeeee."

I hope its not the Dalek from 'Dalek'.

edit - Just want to add that Billie Piper is excellent. She was so brilliant in the Weakest Link scenes.