Dr Who episodes!

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:11 am

According to Have I Got News For You (the odd one out round) the Beatles were in a Doctor Who episode. Anyone know what thats about?

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:37 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:According to Have I Got News For You (the odd one out round) the Beatles were in a Doctor Who episode. Anyone know what thats about?

They appeared on the time scanner in the hartnell story The Chase.

Shouldn't really have to go through all that effort just to understand an episode surely? Wink

Well, if they hadn't had to cut the script by about 1 episode's worth, you wouldn't...

The Twin Dilemma
Hadn't seen this one for 21 years... I'm no Colin detractor, and really enjoyed his performance here. I can see why he might be a turn off to others, but surely taking 4 eps for a regenerated doctor to settle into his new body is no new thing? Just done differently this time. Pretty much everything else about the episode sucked though.

Part of the reason it's reviled by a lot of people is that it was the end of the season. Finishing season 21 by having 1 story to introduce the new Doctor, and then portraying the new Doctor in a way that makes it difficult to like him isn't exactly gonna get people liking the story, or the direction the show's heading in.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:03 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:And I perked up when I saw Jo's knickers...

Ah... Jo... the bright side of many an otherwise flakey episode!

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:14 pm

Bouncelot wrote:

Part of the reason it's reviled by a lot of people is that it was the end of the season. Finishing season 21 by having 1 story to introduce the new Doctor, and then portraying the new Doctor in a way that makes it difficult to like him isn't exactly gonna get people liking the story, or the direction the show's heading in.

Yeah, but he pretty much settled by the end of the 4th episode. Though I guess the final "I'm the doctor, whether you like it or not!" might have come across as a bit of a middle finger up at the audience.

Oh, I almost forgot... "Thou craggy nob!"

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Tue May 03, 2005 11:06 pm

By all means stop me if this is getting boring (in fact, don't - I've no-one else to compare notes with

) ....

The Three Doctors
Bit of a damp squib really, though I actually liked Omega's role and performance. Not his silly creatures tho.

Death to the Daleks
Always up for a Dalek story, and they had some good scenes. The Exilon's are well realised, as is the root thing. Those puzzles wouldn't tax a 3 year old tho. In any case its good to see a non-UNIT Pertwee tale. Gutted that Sarah Jane didn't keep the beach outfit on for all 4 eps tho.

The Ark in Space
Sarah Jane's a great companion, Tom's already nailed his part. Good costumes, sets, and tension to boot. Even with the green bubble wrap. I like Harry too.

Terror of the Zygons
Again I like the cast, and the concept, a few standout scenes (evil Harry for one). The monster was poor, though I enjoyed the scene where it chased the Doctor across fields.

City of Death
This was brill. Everyone's obviously enjoying themselves, and better than usual location work. One of the more talented actors to play a baddie perhaps?

Earthshock
Probably my favourite story. Its all very Star Wars-esque which is probably why I lap it up.

Ressurection of the Daleks
Y'see, I couldn't help but enjoy this too. Davros is a little too shouty tho. And I didn't buy Tegan's "It isn't fun anymore" line. I suppose she was having a whale of a time when possessed by a snake thing and seeing Adric die amongst other perilous scrapes?

Trial of a Timelord (1)
(not gonna bother with the subheadings) Pretty slow to be honest. Colin not the commanding presence he should be, Glitz and Dibber aren't the interesting characters they're meant to be IMO. Lousy looking robots. Best bit probably when Joan Simms cops it.

Trial of a Timelord (2)
Pure drivel IMO. Only thing worse than Colin's performance was Brian Blessed's. The whole thing was just horrible. That wolf man, all those black slaves... hmmm... only interesting bits were Peri's 'death' and the Doctor's reaction to it. And possibly the most atrocious line of dialogue I've ever heard uttered anywhere ever: "Nobody likes brain alteration."

Trial of a Timelord (3)
Back to basics, and I enjoyed this. Didn't even guess the murderer. Langford didn't annoy me like I thought she would. I distinctly remember being disinterested with the series by this point back in the day however.... I think I watched it only during the adverts in the A Team.

Trial of a Timelord (4)
I think its fair to say that this is just a mess?

The Movie
I think McGann is absolutely brilliant and the production values are great. But I also think if a series had been greenlighted it would have probably have destroyed the essence of Doctor Who. Not offended by the half-human thing tho.

Legion wrote:
spiderfrommars wrote:And I perked up when I saw Jo's knickers...
Ah... Jo... the bright side of many an otherwise flakey episode!

I almost forgot, I take it you've seen the infamous Jo+Dalek pictures? Certainly worth a ganders...

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Wed May 04, 2005 12:21 am

spiderfrommars wrote:By all means stop me if this is getting boring (in fact, don't - I've no-one else to compare notes with ) ....

I know a fair number of Doctor Who forums if you want to discuss Who in lots of detail. But you're certainly not boring me.

The Three Doctors
Bit of a damp squib really, though I actually liked Omega's role and performance. Not his silly creatures tho.

Yep, the best thing about it is the Troughton/Pertwee interplay. Apparently they didn't get on very well when shooting it, though - Troughton was playing about and improvising, and Pertwee just wanted to get on with it.

Death to the Daleks
Always up for a Dalek story, and they had some good scenes. The Exilon's are well realised, as is the root thing. Those puzzles wouldn't tax a 3 year old tho. In any case its good to see a non-UNIT Pertwee tale. Gutted that Sarah Jane didn't keep the beach outfit on for all 4 eps tho.

Like almost all Terry Nation Dalek stories, I think this one's quite a poor script - but then given that he so often recycled his scripts, that's hardly surprising. Good design work, though.

The Ark in Space
Sarah Jane's a great companion, Tom's already nailed his part. Good costumes, sets, and tension to boot. Even with the green bubble wrap. I like Harry too.

Yep, I definitely agree.

Terror of the Zygons
Again I like the cast, and the concept, a few standout scenes (evil Harry for one). The monster was poor, though I enjoyed the scene where it chased the Doctor across fields.

Yep - the Zygons were a brilliant monster, but the Skarasen, like most big monsters was a big failure.

City of Death
This was brill. Everyone's obviously enjoying themselves, and better than usual location work. One of the more talented actors to play a baddie perhaps?

Yep - great atmosphere, brilliantly witty dialogue, a real location, and a John Cleese cameo. What more could you ask for?

Earthshock
Probably my favourite story. Its all very Star Wars-esque which is probably why I lap it up.

It doesn't make as much sense as it should, but I still like it lots. The action's good, there are some really good scenes - the Doctor telling the Cybermen about emotions, for example. And, of course, Adric's death.

Ressurection of the Daleks
Y'see, I couldn't help but enjoy this too. Davros is a little too shouty tho. And I didn't buy Tergan's "It isn't fun anymore" line. I suppose she was having a whale of a time when possessed by a snake thing and seeing Adric die amongst other perilous scrapes?

I'm not sure what I think about this one. It's certainly better than the previous Dalek story, and it has that lovely Dalek pushed out of a window moment, and a pleasingly high death toll, but the plot really doesn't add up. At all.

Trial of a Timelord (1)
(not gonna bother with the subheadings) Pretty slow to be honest. Colin not the commanding presence he should be, Glitz and Dibber aren't the interesting characters they're meant to be IMO. Lousy looking robots. Best bit probably when Joan Simms cops it.

Not the best way to restart the show after 18 months. The trial concept's alright, but it's just generally forgettable.

Trial of a Timelord (2)
Pure drivel IMO. Only thing worse than Colin's performance was Brian Blessed's. The whole thing was just horrible. That wolf man, all those black slaves... hmmm... only interesting bits were Peri's 'death' and the Doctor's reaction to it. And possibly the most atrocious line of dialogue I've ever heard uttered anywhere ever: "Nobody likes brain alteration."

Oh, there are worse lines of dialogue. Definitely.

Trial of a Timelord (3)
Back to basics, and I enjoyed this. Didn't even guess the murderer. Langford didn't annoy me like I thought she would. I distinctly remember being disinterested with the series by this point back in the day however.... I think I watched it only during the adverts in the A Team.

Hey, I think my family watched the A Team rather than Who at this point. I know I only started watching Who regularly at Remembrance of the Daleks. It's Langford's best performance on TV who - she does better on the audios. And by this point the trial thing's just dragging far too much.

Trial of a Timelord (4)
I think its fair to say that this is just a mess?

If only Robert Holmes hadn't died partway through writing it, it might have been half-decent.

The Movie
I think McGann is absolutely brilliant and the production values are great. But I also think if a series had been greenlighted it would have probably have destroyed the essence of Doctor Who. Not offended by the half-human thing tho.

Agreed - though as I consider the books to be canon, the half-human thing's been explained away twice, so I don't have to work out if I like it or not. The best thing in the movie, however, is clearly McCoy's performance - it's like he's never been away. The first time I saw the TV Movie, I was thinking "yes! my Doctor's back!" - at least until they killed him off. It's an enjoyable piece of television, but it falls apart when you try to work out the plot. And the proposed spin-off series would have completely destroyed Who, so I'm very glad that the current new series is being done properly.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:11 am

Bouncelot wrote: I know a fair number of Doctor Who forums if you want to discuss Who in lots of detail. But you're certainly not boring me.

I'm lurking a fair bit at outpost gallifrey, I'm just resisting the urge to act noobish.

Bouncelot wrote: Like almost all Terry Nation Dalek stories, I think this one's quite a poor script - but then given that he so often recycled his scripts, that's hardly surprising.

Do you know why it's always so hard to get the rights to use them from his estate? Do they just hold out for more money?

Bouncelot wrote: The action's good, there are some really good scenes - the Doctor telling the Cybermen about emotions, for example. And, of course, Adric's death.

I also meant to single out the directing, particular in the last ep (that Cyberman creeping up to Adric for instance).

Bouncelot wrote: Oh, there are worse lines of dialogue. Definitely.

Can't wait...

Bouncelot wrote: If only Robert Holmes hadn't died partway through writing it, it might have been half-decent.

So the Valeyard... he's not exactly a future regeneration is he? Was there more to it than that?

Bouncelot wrote: Agreed - though as I consider the books to be canon, the half-human thing's been explained away twice, so I don't have to work out if I like it or not.

Whats the explanation?

Another thing about the movie... did it say the Master was tried on Skaro? Now my memory is hazy so correct me if I'm wrong - isn't that the Dalek planet? Why would they do it there? I also thought it blew up in Remembrance?

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:22 am

Yeah, what is all this half-human guff about? I keep reading people bitching about it, but I have no clue what they're on about... I only saw the movie the one time, and can't really remember every detail...

I seem to remember thinking it was silly that "he has green eyes, therefore he's The Master" or whatever it was. Fruitpunch mouth would have been the real giveaway...

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:24 am

The Master also kept regurgitating what looked like semen.

Anyway, the Doctor says, "I'm half-human... on my mother's side."

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:25 am

Okay.

And this causes the world to end... why?

[EDIT] Or is it standard "this was never mentioned/contradicted before, therefore it's wrong!" fanboytwattery?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:29 am

I really have no idea. It still makes him an alien doesn't it?

Post by **Best First** » Wed May 04, 2005 9:47 am

mmm, the fact he exactly resembles a human in physical appearance is fine, but any suggestion he might have human DNA in there somehwhere...

OMG! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Wed May 04, 2005 11:57 am

spiderfrommars wrote:
Bouncelot wrote: Like almost all Terry Nation Dalek stories, I think this one's quite a poor script - but then given that he so often recycled his scripts, that's hardly surprising.
Do you know why it's always so hard to get the rights to use them from his estate? Do they just hold out for more money?

Mostly money, I think they want to squeeze as much out of the BBC as they can get away with. There have also been editorial issues. Apparently Terry didn't like the ending of Remembrance of the Daleks, and insisted that it be retconned in any licensed book appearances. Hence the atrocious War of the Daleks.

Bouncelot wrote:The action's good, there are some really good scenes - the Doctor telling the Cybermen about emotions, for example. And, of course, Adric's death.
I also meant to single out the directing, particular in the last ep (that Cyberman creeping up to Adric for instance).

Yeah, good scene.

Bouncelot wrote:Oh, there are worse lines of dialogue. Definitely.
Can't wait...

Time and the Rani. Ugh. Oh, and the radio play The Ghosts of N-Space, if you want to avoid suicide, I recommend never reading the book version of that story. Seriously, it's that bad.

Bouncelot wrote:If only Robert Holmes hadn't died partway through writing it, it might have been half-decent.
So the Valeyard... he's not exactly a future regeneration is he? Was there more to it than that?

Bob only did a first draft of the first ep, and a sketchy outline of the second, but you can guaruntee that whatever he wrote would have been better than what we got. As for the Valeyard, there's lots of fan argument. He could be a future incarnation from after the Doctor's 12 incarnation, but before his final one (which woul d mean that the Doctor had more than the standard 13 lives), or a being like the Watcher who we saw in the last couple of Tom Baker stories - something literally in-between the Doctor's incarnations.

Bouncelot wrote: Agreed - though as I consider the books to be canon, the half-human thing's been explained away twice, so I don't have to work out if I like it or not.
Whats the explanation?

OK, in the movie, the Doctor says he's half-human on his mother's side, and the Master says that the Doctor has a human retinal pattern, so he must be half-human.

Books explanation 1: The final 7th Doctor New Adventure, Lungbarrow, revealed a whole lot of stuff about the Doctor's past - basically he'd been woven from a genetic loom, but before that he'd existed in Ancient Gallifrey as a famous figure whose name is now forgotten, and who is refrerred to as The Other. At the end, the Doctor's former companion Leela is revealed to be pregnant with a child who is half-human and half-Gallifreyan, and the Doctor asks her to name the child after him. The implication here is that Leela's child may go back and become the Other.

Books explanation 2: In Unnatural History, a group of villains called Faction Paradox have been able to mess around with the Doctor's biodata - it's a kind of 4-D DNA, which contains information about your history as well as your genetics. They insert a new origin for the Doctor, that he's now half-human, but they also don't erase his true origin. Some versions of this theory suggest that only the Eighth Doctor is half-human.

Hm, both explanations make a lot more sense when you're reading the book in question than when you try to explain them in a single paragraph.

Another thing about the movie... did it say the Master was tried on Skaro? Now my memory is hazy so correct me if I'm wrong - isn't that the Dalek planet? Why would they do it there? I also thought it blew up in Remembrance?

Yes, it says that the Master was tried on Skaro by the Daleks. As for Skaro blowing up, two words: time travel.

Brendocon wrote:Or is it standard "this was never mentioned/contradicted before, therefore it's wrong!" fanboytwattery?

You got it. Fans also don't tend to like the fact that he kisses Grace.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed May 04, 2005 12:12 pm

I don't mind the kiss in the slightest. The only thing is that there's a scene inbetween the start and end of the kiss which would suggest they've been smooching for ages. Randy dog.

Though in seriousness I didn't see it as sexual at all.

But it leads to the question, don't Time Lords 'do it'?

Those half-human explanations have already given me a headache!

Brendocon · Post by **Brendocon** » Wed May 04, 2005 12:28 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:But it leads to the question, don't Time Lords 'do it'?

Yes, but they don't understand these things you humans call feelings?

Those half-human explanations have already given me a headache!

I followed it and I don't even care...

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Wed May 04, 2005 12:33 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:By all means stop me if this is getting boring (in fact, don't - I've no-one else to compare notes with ) ....

not at all, i don't often get the chance to talk about things of the who.

spiderfrommars wrote:The Three Doctors
Bit of a damp squib really, though I actually liked Omega's role and performance. Not his silly creatures tho.

It's just a bit of a fun romp with all three Docs, it's a shame they couldn't have Hartnell a bit more involved, oh well. The thing that bugs me is why the 1st Doc is so much smarter, seems to know more things than the 2nd and 3rd... they should have known everything he knew and more!!

spiderfrommars wrote:Death to the Daleks
Always up for a Dalek story, and they had some good scenes. The Exilon's are well realised, as is the root thing. Those puzzles wouldn't tax a 3 year old tho. In any case its good to see a non-UNIT Pertwee tale. Gutted that Sarah Jane didn't keep the beach outfit on for all 4 eps tho.

I like the premise, although the fact that the Daleks can still move and talk and everything (apart from shoot) is a bit off imho (pyscho-kinetic? my arse!).

spiderfrommars wrote:The Ark in Space
Sarah Jane's a great companion, Tom's already nailed his part. Good costumes, sets, and tension to boot. Even with the green bubble wrap. I like Harry too.

This was the story that got me back into who when it was released on VHS. I love it, the Harry/Doc banter is great imho. The Wyrn effects are a bit poor, but otherwise it's a top notch story!

spiderfrommars wrote:Terror of the Zygons
Again I like the cast, and the concept, a few standout scenes (evil Harry for one). The monster was poor, though I enjoyed the scene where it chased the Doctor across fields.

Again, i love this one, the Zygons were great villians, what with their pizza like control consoles!

Shame it's Harry's last story though.

spiderfrommars wrote:City of Death
This was brill. Everyone's obviously enjoying themselves, and better than usual location work. One of the more talented actors to play a baddie perhaps?

Now, i hate to spit in the face of general concencus, but i honestly don't rate this story very much, most of it seems to be basically them showing off that they're filming in Paris. Although Lalla Ward in what is seemingly a schoolgirl's uniform more than makes up for that.

spiderfrommars wrote:Earthshock
Probably my favourite story. Its all very Star Wars-esque which is probably why I lap it up.

A great one is this, oh yes. I love the Cybermen, prolly my fave baddies (more so than the Daleks) and seeing them here is a long over due return to form. and of course, there's Adric's "departure" which was also long overdue!

spiderfrommars wrote:Ressurection of the Daleks
Y'see, I couldn't help but enjoy this too. Davros is a little too shouty tho. And I didn't buy Tegan's "It isn't fun anymore" line. I suppose she was having a whale of a time when possessed by a snake thing and seeing Adric die amongst other perilous scrapes?

I have problems with Davros, once he was brought in, it kind of neutered the Daleks. Lytton is a great character tho and i'm glad they later brought him back again. Leslie Grantham's in it too, what more could you want? The beginning of the Dalek civil war and the continuation (sort of) of the previous Movellan War story line was good too. And any story where people's faces melt is good in my book. And here we see the Dalek's starting to plot against Gallifrey itself (surely a nice bit of forboding for recent events in the new TV series?)

spiderfrommars wrote:Trial of a Timelord

I've not seen this since it was originally transmitted, so i shalln't comment.

spiderfrommars wrote:The Movie
I think McGann is absolutely brilliant and the production values are great. But I also think if a series had been greenlighted it would have probably have destroyed the essence of Doctor Who. Not offended by the half-human thing tho.

I think McGann was great, and he would have made a great Doc. I can see what you mean about what might have happened if it had continued, but there is still a part of me that wishes they'd used him instead of Eccleston for the new series.

spiderfrommars wrote:
Legion wrote:
spiderfrommars wrote:And I perked up when I saw Jo's knickers...
Ah... Jo... the bright side of many an otherwise flakey episode!
I almost forgot, I take it you've seen the infamous Jo+Dalek pictures? Certainly worth a ganders...

Of course I have!!

spiderfrommars wrote: But it leads to the question, don't Time Lords 'do it'?

Probably not, given what we learn in Lungburrow about the Looms and all, there's not much point apart from for recreation... and we all know what the attitude towards having fun is on Gallifrey!

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Wed May 04, 2005 1:19 pm

Legion wrote:Probably not, given what we learn in Lungburrow about the Looms and all, there's not much point apart from for recreation... and we all know what the attitude towards having fun is on Gallifrey!

That'll be the Lungbarrow in which the TIme Lord Andred gets Leela pregnant.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed May 04, 2005 1:21 pm

Legion wrote: It's just a bit of a fun romp with all three Docs, it's a shame they couldn't have Hartnell a bit more involved, oh well. The thing that bugs me is why the 1st Doc is so much smarter, seems to know more things than the 2nd and 3rd... they should have known everything he knew and more!!

Hartnell's small role is even more obvious than TB's in Five Doctors don't you think? Because Three Doctors is centred clearly around 2, whilst at least with Five Doctors you had the luxury of losing count.

As for the First Doctor being smarter, is the point not that he's more experienced, but that his 'character' has better judgement (er, which would come from experience but never mind...)

Legion wrote: Now, i hate to spit in the face of general concencus, but i honestly don't rate this story very much, most of it seems to be basically them showing off that they're filming in Paris. Although Lalla Ward in what is seemingly a schoolgirl's uniform more than makes up for that.

Another thing I've thought... probably the only TB story I've seen so far that doesn't have a really rubbish special effect turn up and threaten to spoil the thing. Damn that Weng Chiang rat!

Legion wrote:I think McGann was great, and he would have made a great Doc. I can see what you mean about what might have happened if it had continued, but there is still a part of me that wishes they'd used him instead of Eccleston for the new series.

I definitely think McGann deserved more. I was sad they didn't use him for the new series, after all, his movie was a ratings hit at least in the UK so why not (?) , but its still got an air of 'failure' about it from most I suppose, and he's linked to the thing.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Wed May 04, 2005 2:35 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:I definitely think McGann deserved more. I was sad they didn't use him for the new series, after all, his movie was a ratings hit at least in the UK so why not (?) , but its still got an air of 'failure' about it from most I suppose, and he's linked to the thing.

Well, that a series didn't follow on from the TV Movie was due to Fox not wanting to do it, and the rights being tied up in co-production. Recasting the Doctor for the new series was part of RTD wanting to be seen to be doing his own thing with the franchise. Also, the fact of a brand new Doctor would mean that anybody who didn't like the TV Movie wouldn't be put off watching the new show as a result.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed May 04, 2005 2:43 pm

Out of interest, who do you think makes the better of the 2 Doctors Bounce?

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Wed May 04, 2005 3:51 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:Out of interest, who do you think makes the better of the 2 Doctors Bounce?

Out of which two?

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed May 04, 2005 3:57 pm

McGann/Ecclestone

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Wed May 04, 2005 5:14 pm

Bouncelot wrote:That'll be the Lungbarrow in which the TIme Lord Andred gets Leela pregnant.

Hang on, unless i'm confused he wasn't a Timelord... he was just a common Gallifreyian... damn, gonna have to reread it again.

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Wed May 04, 2005 5:16 pm

spiderfrommars wrote:McGann/Ecclestone

Eccleston, simply because he's got that hard edge to him. The scene in World War Three where he gives the Slitheen an ultimatum whilst trapped in the Cabinet room is one of the most Doctorish moments I've seen onscreen.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Wed May 04, 2005 5:19 pm

Bouncelot wrote:Eccleston, simply because he's got that hard edge to him. The scene in World War Three where he gives the Slitheen an ultimatum whilst trapped in the Cabinet room is one of the most Doctorish moments I've seen onscreen.

Very true, however the fecking appalling Ade Edmonson impression he seems to slip into quite regularly kinda outweights the good bits. "Dalek" goes a long way to making up because he was pretty damn good throughout that one... maybe it's not his fault, maybe it's RTD's scripts... hmmm.... Unquiet Dead was good also... and RTD didn't write that either did he? I sense a pattern forming...

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Wed May 04, 2005 5:34 pm

Legion wrote:
Bouncelot wrote:That'll be the Lungbarrow in which the TIme Lord Andred gets Leela pregnant.
Hang on, unless i'm confused he wasn't a Timelord... he was just a common Gallifreyian... damn, gonna have to reread it again.

He's still from the same culture, and still got loomed the same as the rest of the planet regardless of whether he's Gallifreyan or Time Lord.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Wed May 04, 2005 7:47 pm

Legion wrote:"Dalek" goes a long way to making up because he was pretty damn good throughout that one...

Yeah, I thought he was spot on in 'Dalek'. That bit when he took the piss out of the Dalek "Help me!... your little signal" etc. I thought was genuinely chilling. And of course there was: "Why don't you just DIE!"

Anyhows, next silly question...

How come the Doctor is Susan's grandad?

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Thu May 05, 2005 2:41 pm

Bouncelot wrote:
Legion wrote:
Bouncelot wrote:That'll be the Lungbarrow in which the TIme Lord Andred gets Leela pregnant.
Hang on, unless i'm confused he wasn't a Timelord... he was just a common Gallifreyian... damn, gonna have to reread it again.
He's still from the same culture, and still got loomed the same as the rest of the planet regardless of whether he's Gallifreyan or Time Lord.

I thought it was just the Timelords that got the infertility curse, not everysingle Gallifreyian (correct me if i'm wrong, but the normal Gallifreyan can't regenerate and what not, only the TimeLord 'Elite')?

spiderfrommars wrote:
Legion wrote:"Dalek" goes a long way to making up because he was pretty damn good throughout that one...
Yeah, I thought he was spot on in 'Dalek'. That bit when he took the piss out of the Dalek "Help me!... your little signal" etc. I thought was genuinely chilling. And of course there was: "Why don't you just DIE!"

Yup, and his genuine fear when the Dalek first recognises him and tries to exterminate him, and his relief at it's failure...

spiderfrommars wrote: Anyhows, next silly question...

How come the Doctor is Susan's grandad?

Not really a silly question, but just a very unexplained one, there are a couple of possibilities i think...
1) Not really his grandaughter, just an affectionate term.
2) She was a grandaughter from a previous life (note, not a previous regeneration, i don't want to throw in spoilers incase you start to read the later books)... but i can if you want.
3) The Doc had a family before the Timelords were struck with infertility, Susan may have been the last one born.
4) You could ignore all the books and their infertility thingy and just think that the Doc used to have a normal family, but something happened and he ran away in Time and Space with his Granddaughter... (what i beleive the very original backstory was).

Of course, the bigger question is, why the hell did he leave her on Earth to marry a human when she's going to live for 1000+ years, whilst her husband might make it to 100 (if he's very, very lucky) and never, ever go back and pick her back up again, the bastard...

Bouncelot · Post by **Bouncelot** » Thu May 05, 2005 3:16 pm

Legion wrote:
Bouncelot wrote:
Legion wrote: Hang on, unless i'm confused he wasn't a Timelord... he was just a common Gallifreyian... damn, gonna have to reread it again.
He's still from the same culture, and still got loomed the same as the rest of the planet regardless of whether he's Gallifreyan or Time Lord.
I thought it was just the Timelords that got the infertility curse, not everysingle Gallifreyian (correct me if i'm wrong, but the normal Gallifreyan can't regenerate and what not, only the TimeLord 'Elite')?

Well, the curse happened before any of them became Time Lords - as seen in Marc Platt's NA Cat's Cradle: Time's Crucible, so you'd assume that it affects all Gallifreyans, not just those who are also Time Lords.

spiderfrommars wrote: Anyhows, next silly question...

How come the Doctor is Susan's grandad?
Not really a silly question, but just a very unexplained one, there are a couple of possibilities i think...
1) Not really his grandaughter, just an affectionate term.
2) She was a grandaughter from a previous life (note, not a previous regeneration, i don't want to throw in spoilers incase you start to read the later books)... but i can if you want.

The book in question being Lungbarrow if you want to know (and no, that's not really a spoiler, because it's strongly alluded to on the back cover),

3) The Doc had a family before the Timelords were struck with infertility, Susan may have been the last one born.

Of course, the relative timing of both means that this has to be connected to number 2.

4) You could ignore all the books and their infertility thingy and just think that the Doc used to have a normal family, but something happened and he ran away in Time and Space with his Granddaughter... (what i beleive the very original backstory was).

Of course, the bigger question is, why the hell did he leave her on Earth to marry a human when she's going to live for 1000+ years, whilst her husband might make it to 100 (if he's very, very lucky) and never, ever go back and pick her back up again, the bastard...

Good question. Of course, he does eventually visit her in John Peel's appalling novel Legacy of the Daleks, but that really doesn't address this question.

Post by **spiderfrommars** » Thu May 05, 2005 4:12 pm

One thing about Five Doctors.... It would have been nice to see Davison at least hug her or something, since the last we'd seen he'd left her on Earth a long time ago (she's aged for a start).

I'm surprised the 'family' idea hasn't been addressed, but I suppose fans prefer mystery?

Spoil the books if you wish! I'll probably give the audios a whirl at some point tho. I've been having such a good time and all.

EDIT - you strongly reccomend Lungbarrow then? I'll take time out to read it if so.