Macworld: Mac Mini and iPod Shuffle

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:18 pm

I'm not in the market for either of these, have a 20gig ipod and my next computer [in the forseeable future] is a laptop, but these are both pretty sweet.

iPod Shuffle: $100 flash based ipod: http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/

Mac mini: g4 based standable computer: http://www.apple.com/macmini/

Master_Fwiffo · Post by **Master_Fwiffo** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:50 pm

Sweet!

Eline · Post by **Eline** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:55 pm

Those look yummy!

I want them. Plus an iPod mini in a funky colour.

Dylan · Post by **Dylan** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:09 pm

Awesome!

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:19 pm

I-pod shuffle is very cute -
computer was tosh as its an apple - I can do 10% of what PC can! and I cost 90% more! - yay.

Master_Fwiffo · Post by **Master_Fwiffo** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:36 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:I-pod shuffle is very cute -
computer was tosh as its an apple - I can do 10% of what PC can! and I cost 90% more! - yay.

My apple powerbook can do everything your PC can do.

Except crash.

And get virus.

And get hacked.

And maybe play a couple games, most of which are crappy because only the *good* games come to mac.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:45 pm

my PC
doesnt crash - has been on for over 2 years and has never crashed in 3 years since
doesnt get virus - norton - nuff said
and can play more games then u can imagine. macs are so fecking useless for playing games - dont even think about using that as an argument.

your mac has sod all software support , costs to much and has piss poor performance for your money.

Mac in short are ****.

and I own a G4.

Master_Fwiffo · Post by **Master_Fwiffo** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:59 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:my PC
doesnt crash - has been on for over 2 years and has never crashed in 3 years since

Dear lord, a miracle! Well, I suppose 1/100 people survive getting thrown out of a car during a violent crash as well.

doesnt get virus - norton - nuff said

Yet one of my teachers (another Mac fanatic) hasn't used norton, yet hasn't gotten a virus in ten years...

and can play more games then u can imagine. macs are so fecking useless for playing games - dont even think about using that as an argument.

And I care? Notice I said that you can play more games. Im not doubting that. The thing is, all those extra games you can play are a waste of money, except maybe one or two of em.

your mac has sod all software support ,

I don't know what that means, but the software support I have is just fine, on the one, maybe 2 times I've ever needed it.

costs to much

Most people don't beleive me, and you won't either, but peice-for-peice, part-for-part and program-for-program you are getting more for your money with a mac then with an PC (the one exception being RAM- apples RAM tends to be overpriced). Man friend through a fit when I showed him cost-for-cost an alienware computer with the same standards as a mac was more. They are high end computers, and loaded with lots of stuff.

and has piss poor performance for your money.

The only performance problem I've had was the time when my mom dropped my laptop six feet from the ground onto the hard floor. After repairs, no problem since.

-edit- Did I mention that after the drop and with what I later found out was a shattered logic board, it still took my laptop a week to die?

Mac in short are ****.

Uhhuh.

and I own a G4.

Good for you.

wideload · Post by **wideload** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:06 pm

back to topic. This shuffle looks pretty amazing for the price. A 1gig for 149.99 USD. What is that in Canadian? 182. thats affordable. The question is do I buy it now or wait til I can get some good consumer reviews and it has impacted the price of the ipod mini.

Gekigengar · Post by **Gekigengar** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:36 am

u know what... that Ipod-shuffle does look sweet, would look great next to my PC, which can play kick butt games... btw, if hackers and virus makers put the same effort in making viruses for macs as they do in windows, we would see the same amount of problems that windows have.

btw, thanks to my firewall and antiviral programs i have yet to get a virus... forgot to mention, the only crashes I get are the bios changes I make for being to agressive in the overclocking.

as far as memory is concerned, Pat Norton of the Screen Savers showed a way to save money for a MAC memory... all he did was flipped a PC2700 for a PC horizontally.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:42 pm

Master_Fwiffo wrote:
Dear lord, a miracle! Well, I suppose 1/100 people survive getting thrown out of a car during a violent crash as well.

Windows XP doesnt crash - Macs on the other hand do.
And when they do u cant quit an application they hang the machine due to the architecture.
Hence why apple intends to re-write the next OS because its underlying programming is flawed.
PC have taken a step beyond macs.

Yet one of my teachers (another Mac fanatic) hasn't used norton, yet hasn't gotten a virus in ten years...

Anti-Virus software is free - its a moot point. more importantly - there is more software on a PC.

And I care? Notice I said that you can play more games. Im not doubting that. The thing is, all those extra games you can play are a waste of money, except maybe one or two of em.

yes you do care because you brought it up - end of the day PC has more games. regardless of what u consider 'good' there is more choice on a PC by such a long way its not even worth considering.
dont bring it up if you cant compete.

I don't know what that means, but the software support I have is just fine, on the one, maybe 2 times I've ever needed it.

The point is - you might be happy, but a PC has more choice by about a millon times.
Macs are cool if you just want to surf the internet, or type a letter I guess, but as personal computing gos they are limted.
I give that thee is one bit of software they do have PC dont and it is good, and thats its video editing software - but if your really into VE you use compositing applications and again the PC wins by miles.

Most people don't beleive me, and you won't either, but peice-for-peice, part-for-part and program-for-program you are getting more for your money with a mac then with an PC (the one exception being RAM- apples RAM tends to be overpriced). Man friend through a fit when I showed him cost-for-cost an alienware computer with the same standards as a mac was more. They are high end computers, and loaded with lots of stuff.

dont be so deluded. and even bothering to argue with me on this point is again laughable.
A dual G5 mac (yes dual) can be outperformed by half the price alienware - you have no idea how fast these machines are.

and in situations where macs are supposed to be better, VE , 2D, DTP they are totaly out performed recently.

this is probably due to the fact that software is made PC first and converted. hence why the PC is faster.

The only performance problem I've had was the time when my mom dropped my laptop six feet from the ground onto the hard floor. After repairs, no problem since.

Well as someone who actually used a Mac for a long time for all the things its supposed to be good at. its was useless in comparison to a PC - its a fact now.
dont be sold by it.
I wager I use far more software then you do - and I know the performance differences.

In short Macs offer nothing anymore - they are outperformed cost to much and badly supported - they have lil relevent use apart from looking nice.
they are purely a fashion unit and dont have any real use in modern computing anymore.

A few years ago i understood the argument, with better realiablity - and some decent software support.
but this isnt true any more, they are actually less relaible, expensive and software support is actually diminsihing except for apple made titles.

and if you dont like windows you can just use Lunix and even tho its free its still better supported then a mac OS.

Macs are pointless.

Pissin' Poonani · Post by **Pissin' Poonani** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:46 pm

Blimey Imps, what do you do for an encore-go round his house and shoot his cats?

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:38 pm

Yes - I am in a mood today, and now my GF cat is giving birth...

Master_Fwiffo · Post by **Master_Fwiffo** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:56 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:
Master_Fwiffo wrote:
Dear lord, a miracle! Well, I suppose 1/100 people survive getting thrown out of a car during a violent crash as well.
Windows XP doesnt crash - Macs on the other hand do.
And when they do u cant quit an application they hang the machine due to the architecture.
Hence why apple intends to re-write the next OS because its underlying programming is flawed.
PC have taken a step beyond macs.

I have never once seen that. Or anything remotly like that. Are you thinking about OS9? Ear;y days of OSX? Or what?

Yet one of my teachers (another Mac fanatic) hasn't used norton, yet hasn't gotten a virus in ten years...
Anti-Virus software is free - its a moot point. more importantly - there is more software on a PC.

Whoppdie-diddly-doo. More is not always equal to better.

And I care? Notice I said that you can play more games. Im not doubting that. The thing is, all those extra games you can play are a waste of money, except maybe one or two of em.
yes you do care because you brought it up - end of the day PC has more games. regardless of what u consider 'good' there is more choice on a PC by such a long way its not even worth considering.
dont bring it up if you cant compete.

Who cares if the PC has more games if their all crap? It's like saying McDonalds is better then Fuddruckers (great hamburgers) because McDonalds has more choices, never mind that all McDonalds choices are processed fat.

I don't know what that means, but the software support I have is just fine, on the one, maybe 2 times I've ever needed it.
The point is - you might be happy, but a PC has more choice by about a millon times.
Macs are cool if you just want to surf the internet, or type a letter I guess, but as personal computing gos they are limted.
I give that thee is one bit of software they do have PC dont and it is good, and thats its video editing software - but if your really into VE you use compositing applications and again the PC wins by miles.

A) Yes I do a bit of video editing, and I've seen nothing pn a PC that tops what my Mac can do with an application that came with it for free.
B) PC has more choice... big whoop. If I can get everything I need for mac and it all works perfectly, why would I need more choice?

Most people don't beleive me, and you won't either, but peice-for-peice, part-for-part and program-for-program you are getting more for your money with a mac then with an PC (the one exception being RAM- apples RAM tends to be overpriced). Man friend through a fit when I showed him cost-for-cost an alienware computer with the same standards as a mac was more. They are high end computers, and loaded with lots of stuff.
dont be so deluded. and even bothering to argue with me on this point is again laughable.
A dual G5 mac (yes dual) can be outperformed by half the price alienware - you have no idea how fast these machines are.

Of *course* it could theoreticly be outperformed by a half-price alienware. The POINT is that the Mac also comes with a lot more stuff with your money. Your half-price alienware mayy be faster, but odds are it willl come without a CD/DVD Burner, all the free mac software, an OS, airport, bluetooth, 3 USB 2 firewire, DVI Out/in and a bunch of other plugs here on the side of my laptop that I have no idea what they do. And then see if you can pack it into as small a space as mine.

and in situations where macs are supposed to be better, VE , 2D, DTP they are totaly out performed recently.

I don't know how recently your talking about, I don't keep up. But I remember a bunch of people screaming about how the G5 sucks because one of the computer magazines did a test in which a topoftheline PC outrendered the g5 mac in photoshop. What they didn't mention, by the Computer magazines own admission, is that the PC had a massive preloading time for the window, and the mac did not. Had they factored the preloading time in, again, BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION, the PC would have been left in the dirt.

this is probably due to the fact that software is made PC first and converted. hence why the PC is faster.

Well, yeah. Duh.

The only performance problem I've had was the time when my mom dropped my laptop six feet from the ground onto the hard floor. After repairs, no problem since.
Well as someone who actually used a Mac for a long time for all the things its supposed to be good at. its was useless in comparison to a PC - its a fact now.
dont be sold by it.
I wager I use far more software then you do - and I know the performance differences.

Maybe you do. All I know is my computer does exactly what I need, and then some stuff that I don't need but like anyway.

In short Macs offer nothing anymore - they are outperformed cost to much and badly supported - they have lil relevent use apart from looking nice.
they are purely a fashion unit and dont have any real use in modern computing anymore.

According to whos standards?

A few years ago i understood the argument, with better realiablity - and some decent software support.
but this isnt true any more, they are actually less relaible, expensive and software support is actually diminsihing except for apple made titles.

Can I see some proof of that? I havn't seen anything.

and if you dont like windows you can just use Lunix and even tho its free its still better supported then a mac OS.

Macs are pointless.

Of course, you also realize that computer fanaticism is as deeply held as a religion, right?

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:39 pm

Master_Fwiffo wrote:
I have never once seen that. Or anything remotly like that. Are you thinking about OS9? Ear;y days of OSX? Or what?

after panthar or whatever the next one is called they want to re-adress the architecture of the OS as its still based around the old OS9 with nobs on, much like Longhorn.

Whoppdie-diddly-doo. More is not always equal to better.

Choice is always better

And I care? Notice I said that you can play more games. Im not doubting that. The thing is, all those extra games you can play are a waste of money, except maybe one or two of em.

WHat a daft statement to make - I can play top games across al generes - you cant, and not just because the games are not on the platform, but because Macs and game really dont mix.
If you dont care dont bring it up either.

Who cares if the PC has more games if their all crap? It's like saying McDonalds is better then Fuddruckers (great hamburgers) because McDonalds has more choices, never mind that all McDonalds choices are processed fat.

Again thats daft - the mac doesnt have access to the decent game of each relevent genere.
point made and won.

A) Yes I do a bit of video editing, and I've seen nothing pn a PC that tops what my Mac can do with an application that came with it for free.
B) PC has more choice... big whoop. If I can get everything I need for mac and it all works perfectly, why would I need more choice?

Actually I was talking about software you had to buy for the Mac - otherwise the macs standard VE software isnt any better then what I can download for free on a PC.

and choice is always better - have you any idea how many different types of 3D applications I use? - they all do different things, they cannot be made into one application.
they dont work on macs.
thats an example of my field, but the fact I have a choice, means I can do more.

Of *course* it could theoreticly be outperformed by a half-price alienware. The POINT is that the Mac also comes with a lot more stuff with your money. Your half-price alienware mayy be faster, but odds are it willl come without a CD/DVD Burner, all the free mac software, an OS, airport, bluetooth, 3 USB 2 firewire, DVI Out/in and a bunch of other plugs here on the side of my laptop that I have no idea what they do. And then see if you can pack it into as small a space as mine.

The point is - it is outperformed.
and it comes with everything you quote
to be even more accurate I can build a PC that will out perform an alienware machine for even less oney and do everything your dual G5 mac does and more.
again macs are expensive and do less, and have less choice.

I don't know how recently your talking about, I don't keep up. But I remember a bunch of people screaming about how the G5 sucks because one of the computer magazines did a test in which a topoftheline PC outrendered the g5 mac in photoshop. What they didn't mention, by the Computer magazines own admission, is that the PC had a massive preloading time for the window, and the mac did not. Had they factored the preloading time in, again, BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION, the PC would have been left in the dirt.

That was tue if I recall, but it was fixed in a patch, by adobe.
now, the dual G5 mac is designed for number crunching in rendering, from PS or 3d max.
it performs badley in all situations. - and my cheap computer can outperform it.
again I could buy two computers for the cost of a single dual G5 and have even more performance.
PC march on with more power since that test, they cost less and do even more since then - the mac is left in the past. and still costs loads.
what does apple do, re-design the case and put a new skin on the OS.
rubbish.

this is probably due to the fact that software is made PC first and converted. hence why the PC is faster.

Well, yeah. Duh.

You know why? because PC do more, so they make more software for them.
and thus software is optimised.

But funnily enough, certain products orginally designed for macs, like photoshop and quark etc... were switched to PC because they run faster by PC nature.

According to whos standards?

According to the world of computing - and the fact apple realises its market share is less now then ever before. what with lunix aswell being free apple has serious problems, small user base inflates price, lack of support in software and hardware - costly development licenses.

In short- I for one wouldnt buy a piece of hardware that is very expensive, badley supported, in software and hardware terms.
and its outperfomed across the board by cheaper systems.

It has not one single advantage a PC has.
hell apples cant even compete in the mouse stakes!

In all seriousness - the entire world is PC geared, the internet is full of PC tools and downlaods etc... macs are just a niche market.
I cant see the point in them at all.

Master_Fwiffo · Post by **Master_Fwiffo** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:20 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:
Master_Fwiffo wrote:
I have never once seen that. Or anything remotly like that. Are you thinking about OS9? Ear;y days of OSX? Or what?
after panthar or whatever the next one is called they want to re-adress the architecture of the OS as its still based around the old OS9 with nobs on, much like Longhorn.

I did not know that. *shrugs*

Whoppdie-diddly-doo. More is not always equal to better.
Choice is always better

I disagree, but whatever. I'm too tired to care anymore.

And I care? Notice I said that you can play more games. Im not doubting that. The thing is, all those extra games you can play are a waste of money, except maybe one or two of em.
WHat a daft statement to make - I can play top games across al generes - you cant, and not just because the games are not on the platform, but because Macs and game really dont mix.
If you dont care dont bring it up either.

Whats one top game I can't play?
And, err, my Mac can game just fine.

Who cares if the PC has more games if their all crap? It's like saying McDonalds is better then Fuddruckers (great hamburgers) because McDonalds has more choices, never mind that all McDonalds choices are processed fat.
Again thats daft - the mac doesnt have access to the decent game of each relevent genere.
point made and won.

Hardly. As I said before, if I can't get my hands on Blow-Your-Head-Off 3, but I can still get Unreal Tournment whatever-its-up-too, does it really matter that I can't get Blow-Your-Head-Off 3?

A) Yes I do a bit of video editing, and I've seen nothing pn a PC that tops what my Mac can do with an application that came with it for free.
B) PC has more choice... big whoop. If I can get everything I need for mac and it all works perfectly, why would I need more choice?
Actually I was talking about software you had to buy for the Mac - otherwise the macs standard VE software isnt any better then what I can download for free on a PC.

You may not know this, but I can *also* get free software for mac. Probably not as much as you can, but I still have acess to plenty of freeware.

and choice is always better - have you any idea how many different types of 3D applications I use? - they all do different things, they cannot be made into one application.
they dont work on macs.
thats an example of my field, but the fact I have a choice, means I can do more.

No I didn't know that. Good for you.

Of *course* it could theoreticly be outperformed by a half-price alienware. The POINT is that the Mac also comes with a lot more stuff with your money. Your half-price alienware mayy be faster, but odds are it willl come without a CD/DVD Burner, all the free mac software, an OS, airport, bluetooth, 3 USB 2 firewire, DVI Out/in and a bunch of other plugs here on the side of my laptop that I have no idea what they do. And then see if you can pack it into as small a space as mine.
The point is - it is outperformed.
and it comes with everything you quote
to be even more accurate I can build a PC that will out perform an alienware machine for even less oney and do everything your dual G5 mac does and more.
again macs are expensive and do less, and have less choice.

Your awfully hung up on that 'choice' bit. And 'building a pc' is always cheaper, as long as you know how to actually build one. But you also can't get any sort of services for it, but if you know how to build one, it hardly matters anyway.

I don't know how recently your talking about, I don't keep up. But I remember a bunch of people screaming about how the G5 sucks because one of the computer magazines did a test in which a topoftheline PC outrendered the g5 mac in photoshop. What they didn't mention, by the Computer magazines own admission, is that the PC had a massive preloading time for the window, and the mac did not. Had they factored the preloading time in, again, BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION, the PC would have been left in the dirt.
That was tue if I recall, but it was fixed in a patch, by adobe.
now, the dual G5 mac is designed for number crunching in rendering, from PS or 3d max.
it performs badley in all situations. - and my cheap computer can outperform it.
again I could buy two computers for the cost of a single dual G5 and have even more performance.
PC march on with more power since that test, they cost less and do even more since then - the mac is left in the past. and still costs loads.
what does apple do, re-design the case and put a new skin on the OS.
rubbish.

Meh. So theres a new PC that just came out thats higher end. In another year or so, Macs will come out with another computer that'll be harder to match. The diffrence apparently is that Macs come out slower then PCs. Big whoop.

Well, yeah. Duh.
You know why? because PC do more, so they make more software for them.
and thus software is optimised.

But funnily enough, certain products orginally designed for macs, like photoshop and quark etc... were switched to PC because they run faster by PC nature.

Oh, and surely they wern't switched because, you know, there was a massive demand for them on the PC.... And I have yet to see any proof that they run faster 'by nature.'

According to whos standards?
According to the world of computing - and the fact apple realises its market share is less now then ever before. what with lunix aswell being free apple has serious problems, small user base inflates price, lack of support in software and hardware - costly development licenses.

You know, I almost took that market share statement at value, till I looked around various business sites (Forbes, ect) and found no indication other then the fact that Apples stock has been steadly rising over the last year, including a tripple at the end of the first quarter in 04. How does that fit into your 'less market share' theory?

And Im not entirly sure how your using 'lack of support'. If you mean 'lack of software and hardware', most external hardware I see at any store now has 'mac compatible' on it. Software I'll give you, but I beleive I've covered that already.

In short- I for one wouldnt buy a piece of hardware that is very expensive, badley supported, in software and hardware terms.
and its outperfomed across the board by cheaper systems.

Yet ease of use, lack of virus's and potential hackers, non-crashability, and I can do everything I need to do easier (and yes, it looks pretty too) are all reasons I would get a mac.

It has not one single advantage a PC has.

Except those I just listed...

hell apples cant even compete in the mouse stakes!

I don't know about you, but *my* mouse has five buttons.

In all seriousness - the entire world is PC geared, the internet is full of PC tools and downlaods etc... macs are just a niche market.
I cant see the point in them at all.

Theres plenty of mac stuff out there too. Remember the Microsoft liked the mac system so much they copied it and flipped it upside-down to make Windows. They may be a niche market now, but their growing.

AND ONE DAY WE MAC USERS WILL RULE THE WORLD! MWHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH

And PC users can serve us coffee.

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:24 pm

Basically if youre going to buy a Mac for someone, make sure its a 16 year old girl who wants to look cool to her friends.Also make sure you get her favorite color.

Leatherneck · Post by **Leatherneck** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:42 pm

Fwiffo.. Apple stock isn't going up because of their computers. It's this small thing I've heard of, you probably have too... iPod. During the holiday season when I was working for UPS I was delivering nearly 2000 iPods a week [all models combined] to the Apple store. This is also a brand new store in a relatively small mall. The larger Apple store in our area was getting an estimated 3500 iPods/wk, according to the reciever at my local Apple store.

Post by **Kaylee** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:46 pm

I'm not a great advocate of Macs because I find them an absolute headache tbh.

It is my understanding that even using a mac unless you have a virus scanner you are considered a fool pretty much by those in the industry- macs might suffer only a microscopic proportion of virii due to their tiny market share, but their mangled UNIX security model is a problem I think.

Imo it comes from he massive over-simplification of the user interface, which is the reason I find macs such a nightmare. I have yet to figure out how to disable NIS authentication under OSX once you've enabled it- even turning it off, the system still requires NIS to be present on your network for the system to boot up.

Macs essentially give you your tracks and let you run up and down them. If the tracks go everywhere you want, great. For a lot of people they simply don't.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:15 pm

yes Karl I agree - for me its play school computing.

the entire games debate is just laughable.

if you care about games then PC wins by default

if you dont care about games

THEN DONT BRING IT UP AS YOU LOST WHEN U SAID 'MAC' !!!

Sorry but there isnt one advantage to a mac anymore - once upon a time maybe but Windows and Lunix piss onit from a great height in every single department. proven and tested.

they are kiddy computers.

I could argue but you bring up childish points of view.

Optimus Prime Rib · Post by **Optimus Prime Rib** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:19 pm

*psst* hes just mad because he bought the wrong one. I did the same thing when I bought Arcee "Shes cool.. No really.. cool.. um.. AH DAMNIT! *buys bulkhead*"

Master_Fwiffo · Post by **Master_Fwiffo** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:45 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:yes Karl I agree - for me its play school computing.

the entire games debate is just laughable.

if you care about games then PC wins by default

if you dont care about games

THEN DONT BRING IT UP AS YOU LOST WHEN U SAID 'MAC' !!!

*sigh* Ok, I'll say it one more time. Is there any of the top PC games that are not available for Mac? If there are not, then why should I care, as I get all the top games anyway, which if I were a gamer, probably be the only ones I get?

Sorry but there isnt one advantage to a mac anymore - once upon a time maybe but Windows and Lunix piss onit from a great height in every single department. proven and tested.

Keep saying it, it might become true yet if you do!

they are kiddy computers.

Says the guy who can't capitalize the first letter of his sentence, and has no idea what 'punctuation' is...

I could argue but you bring up childish points of view.

Oh I see. Running away eh? You yellow bastard! Come back here and I'll bite your legs off! /Monty Python

Master_Fwiffo · Post by **Master_Fwiffo** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:47 pm

Optimus Prime Rib wrote:*psst* hes just mad because he bought the wrong one. I did the same thing when I bought Arcee "Shes cool.. No really.. cool.. um.. AH DAMNIT! *buys bulkhead*"

But I *like* Arcee, even if she has no elbows!

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:06 pm

top PC games.

FPS
Half life 2 and Doom 3

Real time stratergy
Rome total war.

Online shooters.
Far-cry - coutner strike source - and call of duty

driving games.
Need for speed underground 2 (adimitedly there are more but I dont know them to much)

Flight sims
Got them all PC - namely Microsoft make alot of em.

RPG.s

baulders gate, knights of the old republic. etc...

and the big daddys.

Online role playing games

World of warcraft (550'000 players) - Everquest 1&2 - final fantasy online - star wars online - city of heroes etc... ultima online.

Pwned!

all of the above games are great games in all generes. they have recived acclaim across the world - there is no argument over if they are 'good' or not.
there are more games I could list aswell, and they are not on the Mac again.

and by the way, if your gonna bring up capital letters and my gramma. grow up a bit. it makes you look stupid.

Master_Fwiffo · Post by **Master_Fwiffo** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:28 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:top PC games.

FPS
Half life 2 and Doom 3

Real time stratergy
Rome total war.

Online shooters.
Far-cry - coutner strike source - and call of duty

driving games.
Need for speed underground 2 (adimitedly there are more but I dont know them to much)

Flight sims
Got them all PC - namely Microsoft make alot of em.

RPG.s

baulders gate, knights of the old republic. etc...

and the big daddys.

Online role playing games

World of warcraft (550'000 players) - Everquest 1&2 - final fantasy online - star wars online - city of heroes etc... ultima online.

Pwned!

Doom 3
Call of Duty
Baulders Gate
KOTR
World of Warcraft
Everquest
And though I can't find a URL, Im pretty sure I've seen SW Galaxies for mac as well.

Now of the remainders, several I've never even heard of, and three were going to have Mac versions until unexpected complications came up and they were dropped.

And of those, the only one I'd remotly be intrested in getting is Rome Total War.

all of the above games are great games in all generes. they have recived acclaim across the world - there is no argument over if they are 'good' or not.

K

there are more games I could list aswell, and they are not on the Mac again.

Except, half of those you listed are. Oops.

and by the way, if your gonna bring up capital letters and my gramma. grow up a bit. it makes you look stupid.

Learn to type, then maybe your labeling me 'childish' will have some credibility.

Post by **Kaylee** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:28 pm

I'm given to understand that Linux has a bigger catalogue of brand-new games than Macs do, including the Sims, Simcity and the latest nasty bloody-violent horror game (doom 3 maybe?).

The problem with Macs for me is that they've taken system specialisation too far- their software is very very niche and does not adapt well to different environments.

Thats the nice thing about Windows and Linux, you can make them do most anything with the high compatibility of Windows and the flexibility of Linux.

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:18 pm

Doom 3 - not out
Call of Duty - 3 year old version
Baulders Gate - not the latest
KOTR - not number 2
World of Warcraft - not out, mac only world, pointless.
Everquest - No everquest 2 - not mac only version, 6 years old.

PC v Mac on games - no contest. PC wins.

OS for on rails.
Low software choice
Expensive Hardware
Bad performance for money.
Not much in the way of games - only dated titles.

PC - Windows or Lunix OS - now more stable then the mac (deff Lunix)
Every piece of software you can think of. broard choice in all enviroments.
Cheap hardware
Very good performance for your money.
Every erm home computer game is PC based first and foremost.

If I had a mac I wouldnt have leant jack about 2D or 3D software as there is such a limited choice.

I echo Karls statements, the PC is so flexible, it can be asked to do anything, the Mac can only be asked to do what apple has provided. and except for 1 application, its very average in comparrison to a PC.

Essentially you could own a PC, for less money, get more performance and do 90% more onit.

but if you just surf the net or write a letter or somthing, then I guess thats computing in a nutshell for you.

then again id get a PDA.

Master_Fwiffo · Post by **Master_Fwiffo** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:48 pm

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:Doom 3 - not out
Call of Duty - 3 year old version
Baulders Gate - not the latest
KOTR - not number 2
World of Warcraft - not out, mac only world, pointless.
Everquest - No everquest 2 - not mac only version, 6 years old.

PC v Mac on games - no contest. PC wins.

I never said it didn't. ALl I said is that you can get many PC games also on the mac.

Besides, if I really want to game, I have my Gamecube.

OS for on rails.
Low software choice
Expensive Hardware
Bad performance for money.
Not much in the way of games - only dated titles.

PC - Windows or Lunix OS - now more stable then the mac (deff Lunix)
Every piece of software you can think of. broard choice in all enviroments.
Cheap hardware
Very good performance for your money.
Every erm home computer game is PC based first and foremost.

Right. Whatever.

If I had a mac I wouldnt have leant jack about 2D or 3D software as there is such a limited choice.

If macs suck so much here, how come Pixar, ILM, and WETA, the industry standards in 3d, ALL USE MACS?

I echo Karls statements, the PC is so flexible, it can be asked to do anything, the Mac can only be asked to do what apple has provided. and except for 1 application, its very average in comparrison to a PC.

Essentially you could own a PC, for less money, get more performance and do 90% more onit.

but if you just surf the net or write a letter or somthing, then I guess thats computing in a nutshell for you.

then again id get a PDA.

*sigh* Whatever.

Post by **Kaylee** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:30 pm

Macs are used for many design and video editting purposes because they are able to put a great deal of power through a single application- they are however exceedingly hard to customise. So if you are in a situation, for example with pixar, where you will be using existing software already avaiable on the mac and you require a stable platform Macintosh's have the best reputation.

Linux/UNIX systems however occupy a large area of industrial design and manufacture, as well as increasingly in special effects (most of the LoTR effects were done on UNIX based systems) because UNIX and its clones will also put a great deal of power through an application (Mac OSX is afterall based on UNIX) but offer customiseability to a degree unimaginable on Macs.

For example it is not feasible to create a 32 Processor super-computer or a high-end mainframe using Mac OSX. It can, however, be done under UNIX and conceptually one could create graphics software to take advantage of that.

Similarly one is able to put huge amounts of power through Windows based systems due to their wide-randing compatibilities and reasonable stability over short periods (days for example).

As far as I'm aware Macs are steadily losing out atm in terms of performance and application and are staying only due to their reputation for being suitable for these situations.

When you need huge amounts of power through an uber stable platform and cost if secondary to these concerns, i believe one uses UNIX/Linux.

When power and stability are secondary to cost (UNIX/Linux systems can cost thousands and thousands) one would use the latest Windows version.

They're also making a huge fortune by producing 'fashionable' computing- the idea of sleek must-have accessories which are also computers is a powerful market force these days.

I'd say the best way to improve a Mac is to install SuSE Linux on it

Impactor returns 2.0 · Post by **Impactor returns 2.0** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:42 pm

If macs suck so much here, how come Pixar, ILM, and WETA, the industry standards in 3d, ALL USE MACS?

hahahahahahahahahahaha

Oh dear.

No they dont, they use windows & Lunix based rigs - coupled with SGI computers.

thats the funniest thing ive heard - ever.

"hello ILM, Pixar, and WETA - what computers do you use to push the boundries of CGI?"

- "oh thats simple, we use run of the mill Macs!, actually the dual G5's..."

"really, so u dont need to use anything really powerfull to create the effects of star wars, Lord of the rings, or fninding nemo?"

- "no you can just go and buy a mac, no need for anything clever"

"thats odd, because PIXAR animators tend to use renderman to render out thier entire films. and thats not got mac support?
WETA,s messiah engine is based around 3D Studio Max, and was PC based, and also, last time I checked ILM was using, 3d max, softimage, lightwave and such but compositing on Flame, a discreet made compistor that it based around Lunix machines?"

-"yeah sorry, I know, of course out hardware isnt Mac, they dont builld super computers which could cope with our needs"

"what about video editing?"

-"yes we edit about 25% of the film on a mac, plugged into some stupidly expensive DV cards which cost about $25k with MPEG2 real-time multiple plane encoders."

"so not a standard mac, you just wanted it for AVID"

- "yes"

""whats the rest of the film editing done on?"

-"mainly compositing sftware such as Flint,FLame, smoke etc... some of it is Lunix based, other parts SGI. cost is around $150k to $1million"

"so you dont really use Macs for anything?"

-"no of course not because we require multi millon pund sets ups to push the boundries of CGI"

"oh"

---------------------------

Seriously I spend my life, almost everyday studying 3D CGI techniques, there isnt much I dont know about these companys, and I can assure you, Macs dont cut the mustard at this level. they dont even feature at my level of work - and im not just saying that for the hell of it. its just that PC have GPU's that can be programmed via Direct X. somthing your mac doesnt.
They are more powerfull at 3D by along way.

Recently Maya was released to the Mac, but to equal performance even close to an average PC users were having to spend 3-4 times as much..

When it comes to this world dont even go here with me.

WETA.... ah,hahaha, thats a killer.

p.s. - dont go quoting PIXARS attempt at intergrating macs into the workflow in 2002 - they still use SGI/UNIX.