Brexit

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bumblemusprime

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Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:30 pm

Having just brought myself up to speed, mostly via John Oliver's segment and the FB feeds of fellow Transfans, this is what I understand to have just happened:

- Conservative leaders told massive, easily disprovable lies about the finances of UK & the EU
- England, apparently the Texas of the UK, mostly carried the vote with older folks in rural and suburban areas
- Let's be honest; it was all about racism toward immigrants

Disturbing how close this is to the Trump playbook over here.

Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

Predabot
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Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:25 pm

In a way I am disappointed, but in another way I am somewhat glad for our islander-neighbours - they've never really been into the EU, so we should let them go. Tell you the truth, I just wish it was over already! And I'm apparently not alone in that regard:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/60678b42-3aa2 ... 140b0.html

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... xit-berlin

I do wonder what is the right way to go about this... over in the UK, several Brexit-leaders are talking about taking their time, and not rushing it - but from where I'm standing, most of these guys are fairly unpleasant lads, so my gut instinct is to go AGAINST this immediately - to push Britain into using Article 50 as soon as possible.

On the other hand, maybe that will just stoke the divide between Britain and the EU, which could lead to hatred, and hatred leads to the dark side.

Something really exciting is happening over in Scotland though! The winds of freedom is blowing once more, as Scotland definitely voted to remain, and the leadership has said that they'll do anything it takes, to remain in the EU.
This obviously means it's time for another independence referendum - the Scots want out.

https://www.rt.com/uk/348160-scotland-b ... ependence/
http://www.macleans.ca/news/world/scotl ... ve-the-eu/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 00691.html

Still, I do live in fear of a possible Exit-wave going across Europe now, which is the last thing we need, with right proper arse-holes like Marine Le Pen and the like, trying to stir up racial hatred and disunion in Europe - the last time we saw this nationalistic bollocks it nearly destroyed the world - and the EU was founded to keep Europe peaceful - precisely to stand against this rubbish.

Not sure what can be done, but the EU needs to take control of the situation and show why the Union is a good thing, and get people on the streets actually engaged and hopeful about cooperation.

Yaya

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Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:06 am

bumblemusprime wrote:Having just brought myself up to speed, mostly via John Oliver's segment and the FB feeds of fellow Transfans, this is what I understand to have just happened:

- Conservative leaders told massive, easily disprovable lies about the finances of UK & the EU
- England, apparently the Texas of the UK, mostly carried the vote with older folks in rural and suburban areas
- Let's be honest; it was all about racism toward immigrants

Disturbing how close this is to the Trump playbook over here.


Thanks Sprunkabeemus, I was looking for someone to kind of summarize this for me, as I don't understand the significance of it either.

So I'd be interested in hearing from other Brits on this board as to what it means for the UK and why you think it happend. Is it really about racism or more financial?

"But the Costa story featuring Starscream? Fantastic! This guy is "The One", I just know it, just from these few pages. "--Yaya, who is never wrong.

The Last Autobot

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Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:03 am

Oh, well. But how do you think things will come out?

From this part of the world (god forsaken south america) everyone is saying that young adults and the like are more "stay" and older people are "leave".

Is that actually right?

PS: And I haven´t been here in like 2 years? But with all this subject I was thinking in all of you.
 
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Bumblebot

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Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:53 am

The key points, I think, about this referendum, were that there were blatant lies told by both sides, the right-wing media played upon their existing misrepresentation of refugees as immigrants, the majority of voters believed the referendum was the be-all and end-all of the discussion, and, apparently, there are many voters who don't understand the voting process.

I could talk about specific examples relating to the above, but I think the most galling thing is that this referendum has echoes of the 2015 General Election. All (or most) of the experts said the UK would be more likely to be in a better position if it stayed rather than left, so we voted (although not decisively) to leave. In the 2015 General Election, all the signs pointed to us not wanting another 5 years under a Tory government, so we voted to decimate the LibDems. :sheba:

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Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:38 pm

From a legal and financial point of view the vote to leave will cause just about the most ridiculously complicated mess you can imagine.

It cannot be understated just how woven the EU is into the law and finances of the UK. Undoing those ties is going to be a nightmare because so much of EU law will have to be replaced by Parliament.

Then, to make matters worse, the UK loses its free trade rights with the EU. The UK doesnt have the leverage to get better terms than it does now and just to get back to where it was itll have to approve the same policies so many of the leave camp hated such as free movement of people across borders.

As if that wasnt bad enough both major UK parties decided to play Game of Thrones instead of trying to fix this and the SNP is sensing the opportunity to have Scotland leave the UK.

To give some sign of how daft this was, imagine if Connecticut gave the US the finger, seceded and then later wanted to negotiate favorable trade terms. I doubt anyone would think Connecticut had the upper hand and yet that is the argument the Leave camp essentially made.
 

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Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:46 pm

My hope is that Parliament (when they eventually sort themselves out) will vote decisively against triggering Article 50 and the matter can be put to bed for another 40 years.

Then again, it's also my hope that, to be more in parallel with how Parliament votes on referendum results (a 2/3 majority in both the Commons and Lords will be needed to trigger Article 50), future referendums will need a greater majority of the votes in favour of a change to the status quo in order to then be put to Parliament. 52:48 is about as decisive as the expected result from 100 coin tosses.

Predabot
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Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:22 pm

So, you went and made Johnson your very own Trump-haired Foreign Secretary - your TOP Diplomat.

This will of course go over extremely well with all of the rest of us - who once more have to sit through the maniacal cackle of a complete caricature of every boorish Brit' in holiday resorts and footie-stadiums around the world...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... of-britain

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... rom-abroad
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07 ... -johnsons/

Rather brings me back to Britain's last standing representative in the EU parliament - the ever-so-popular Nigel Farrage.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36650014
(jump to 3:19 for the full flavour)

The contrast to the Scottish is fairly stark - this speech was made following Farrage's.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-36652065


I do hear that apparently your new Iron Lady, appointed him not because she thinks he's right for the job, but because she believes he will make a mess of it and finally get the boot. Well, if that's the strategy, I should say there's a good chance it will work - hopefully the rest of you won't get too badly singed in the process.

Bumblebot

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Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:27 am

Predabot wrote:So, you went and made Johnson your very own Trump-haired Foreign Secretary - your TOP Diplomat.

No. That's all down to Theresa May and the Conservative Party.

The Cabinet is chosen by the Prime Minister, from MPs in government.
The Prime Minister, who is usually also the leader of the political party in government, is the MP chosen by an election within that party.
MPs are elected by the voters in the constituencies they stand in, and are chosen to stand by their political parties.

So, Boris Johnson being Foreign Secretary is entirely the responsibility of Theresa May for choosing him for the position, those who chose him to stand for the Uxbridge and South Ruislip seat in the 2015 general election, and those who voted Conservative in that constituency during that election.

Predabot
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Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:00 am

Bumblebot wrote:
Predabot wrote:So, you went and made Johnson your very own Trump-haired Foreign Secretary - your TOP Diplomat.

No. That's all down to Theresa May and the Conservative Party.

The Cabinet is chosen by the Prime Minister, from MPs in government.
The Prime Minister, who is usually also the leader of the political party in government, is the MP chosen by an election within that party.
MPs are elected by the voters in the constituencies they stand in, and are chosen to stand by their political parties.

So, Boris Johnson being Foreign Secretary is entirely the responsibility of Theresa May for choosing him for the position, those who chose him to stand for the Uxbridge and South Ruislip seat in the 2015 general election, and those who voted Conservative in that constituency during that election.


Touché! You got me there, mate. Bit of a passion-post the last one, than a logic-post.

I suppose since he was talked about as becoming Prime Minister during the Brexit-campaign, one could say that HALF the UK elected him, yes?
How do you figure he'll do in his new position btw? Do you have any fears, or do you think there might be complications?

How odd btw, that he used to be mayor of London, yet because of the drop in UK financials and changes to the market, from Brexit (mostly reallocations to the mainland) he may well end up costing London more jobs than any leader in recent history...

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Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:36 pm

Predabot wrote:How odd btw, that he used to be mayor of London, yet because of the drop in UK financials and changes to the market, from Brexit (mostly reallocations to the mainland) he may well end up costing London more jobs than any leader in recent history...

Until very recently, I wasn't even aware he had been BOTH Mayor of London AND an MP at the same time! It's obvious why he did it, but it really makes me wonder who these people are who vote for candidates who have no intention of working on behalf of their constituency.


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