MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

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MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Hound » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:56 pm

Well that was quite brilliant. Not quite the death extravaganza that I had hyped myself up for, but everything was explained in a really neat and interesting way. I don't feel cheated.

The Cyclonus and Whirl moment totally had me fooled. Cyclonus really was the star of this issue and his speech to Starsaber was amazing.

Interesting that Roddy had Drift take the fall for him about Overlord. Prowl really knows how to push his buttons. I love that Prowl has such an influence over what has happened without evening being in the book. What an utter bastard he is :lol:

I'm really intrigued to see where Roberts goes next with this as it felt like a proper 'end of season' finale.

*EDIT* make sure you read the prose story. A LOT of stuff happens in those 4 pages!
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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by snarl » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:56 pm

A picture says 1,000 words.

This was

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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Computron » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:10 pm

That was the creme brulee at the end of a magnificent meal. I need to reread it again just to enjoy all the subtlety. Love the Cyclonus / Whirl elements. The art, the conversations, everything.

Oh and Tailgate. Poor amazing Tailgate.

I am so happy First Aid survived. Killing him would have deprived us of what promises to be a great character arc for him.

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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Hound » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:46 pm

Computron wrote:That was the creme brulee at the end of a magnificent meal. I need to reread it again just to enjoy all the subtlety. Love the Cyclonus / Whirl elements. The art, the conversations, everything.

Oh and Tailgate. Poor amazing Tailgate.

I am so happy First Aid survived. Killing him would have deprived us of what promises to be a great character arc for him.
Agreed. Loving First Aid. I hope he gets a few more moments to shine. I get the feeling he wont want the chief medical office title any more
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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by snarl » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:52 pm

Every scene with Cyclonus was a show stopper. Even me, Dave Cynical came close to having a moment on P18
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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Death's Head » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:21 pm

I really, really hope my Generations Cyclonus arrives in the post tomorrow...
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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by bumblemusprime » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:46 am

Really enjoyed this, but not quite as much as I thought I would. I guess I expected a bit more death, or there were too many "snatched from the jaws of death" moments.

Loved loved loved:

Teeny tiny Ambus!
Rodimus BIG SECRET - Way to make his pride dangerous
Tailgate shoving his finger into Tyrest's BRAIN.
Cyclonus taking out Star Saber
Cyclonus stabbing Tailgate--what a page!
The fake-out for Whirl's death
Ambulon!
First Aid blew off Pharma's head!
Skids is the only one without guilt

Wasn't so keen on:

Magnus has now been killed in front of us twice. I got death fake-out exhaustion
I kind of wanted Cyclonus to kill Whirl. Call me crazy...
So Pharma's lab has cures to all known Cybertronian diseases or what?
The prose story could have been an issue in itself! We need a double-sized issue next time!
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Metal Vendetta » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:10 am

This was just superb, like a perfect season finale. I loved the way so much hung on Cyclonus's decisions - if he'd killed Whirl like he so dearly wanted to, he'd have lost Tailgate as well. This could easily have been the most tragic issue of MTMTE yet, but somehow it all worked out and (more or less) the Lost Light's crew are back together and ready to start season 2. I'm kind of happy that we didn't get a slew of deaths this issue, though it's a little frustrating that all three villains disappeared (mostly) without getting their comeuppance. Though First Aid shooting Pharma's head off was mint.
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I would have waited a ******* eternity for this!!!!
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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by snarl » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:41 am

Wasn't bothered by the "deaths" that never were. They were very well done.

Dai Atlus, is he dead? You'd bet on him being alive too wouldn't you?

Seen some criticisms on other boards along the lines of "WHY DIDN'T SOMEBODY DIE, WHY DIDN'T IT ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS?"

I happen to think the best answer to those people is "because YOU are a ****"
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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Hound » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:13 am

Why are people so fascinated with killing off characters? We love this book because we love those characters, so we shouldn't be willing death upon them! There are very few situations where future stories would have been enhanced by killing off people.

Plus you know that all of these 'fake-offs' are just blinding us before something really horrible happens.
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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Metal Vendetta » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:28 am

Precisely - when I thought Cyclonus had offed Whirl (and I was totally taken in by the fake-out) my first reaction was disappointment that we won't get any more of Nut-Job's enjoyably insane adventures. Besides, there's been plenty of death among the Lost Light's since the series began - we've lost Ambulon, Pipes, Deftwing, Rewind, Tripodeca, Shock, Awe, Hyperion and Polaris at least (there were more coffins after Overlord's rampage still unaccounted for) and I don't think killing off major characters left and right, removing them from the field of play, is going to make for a better series.
I would have waited a ******* eternity for this!!!!
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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Sunyavadin » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:36 am

I still can't stop seeing a Vehicon symbol in the centre of that one on the back of the moon and in the curious talking spark's speech bubbles there. Only so much you can do with simple shapes, and Transformers has used a lot of them over the years.
Guessing Skids will figure a translation out eventually.
No sign of the timey-travelley message being sent yet. I seem to recall hearing somewhere that something had been mentioned by Roberts about Perceptor's off-panel activities last issue? Either that or something even more horrible is around the corner. Possibly relating to the tentacle theft of Pharma?
Didn't he say a couple of months ago "Don't open the coffin" was one we'd still not seen? Because unless you count Luna 1 as a giant coffin full of Titans, I'd say grabbing Red Alert out of the morgue would potentially count there.

"Fortress Maximus, duly appointed enforcer of the Tyrest accord". Nice ring to it.

The semicolon was just superb.

We cried at the scene with Tailgate and Cyclonus.

So many jaw-dropping scenes.

Totally called the horn, back when Tailgate was making it.
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When I picture Simon Furman's direct ancestor, squatting in dingy furs, singing songs about the glory of the Saxon tribe, I imagine him as the very first to gather his buddies around the campfire and say "There was this dude named Beowulf..."

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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Professor Smooth » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:03 pm

You know...

I didn't think that this issue would live up to the anticipation. I don't want to say "hype" because there's rarely been any "hype" for a (non issue 1) Transformers series. But the anticipation was there. Who will live? Who will die? What will be left of them? What will the future hold for the characters? Will there BE a future after Dark Cybertron? There was a riding on this issue. It's probably the most anticipated issue of any Transformers comic book EVER. And that includes, strange as it is to type, Regeneration One 81.

And, WOW, did it deliver. It didn't succumb to any gimmicks. It didn't disappear up its own arse. It didn't do a Sopranos, or a LOST, or even an Evil Than Men Do #4. It was just an AWESOME comic book that brought to a close an AWESOME arc of a non-stop AWESOME comic book series.

Breaking Bad ends in 4 days. Which will be remembered by fans of both as the better use of time, I wonder...?
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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Sunyavadin » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:25 am

Is that breaking bad thing worth me starting to watch it?
Right now I've spent the last 3 years bringing my girlfriend up to date on everything she's missed out on seeing in her life, but which EVERYONE should be introduced to (Babylon 5, ALL of Star Trek, The Prisoner, Twin Peaks, The Venture Brothers, Lexx, etc.) Not to mention getting her from someone with no shared interest in giant transforming robots to where she can sit beside me and burst into tears as one robot impales another robot lying down in front of him with a sword.
We're at the point where we've almost completely watched my collection of stuff, and need some new televisual experiences. I think in the last couple of years there's only really been Fringe we've watched that was new.

You're right about this as a conclusion to the MTMTE arc. It's superb. I honestly do not think there has been a single low moment for this series. This arc of MTMTE concluded on the same high it began with. I hope they can continue to deliver.
bumblemusprime wrote:
When I picture Simon Furman's direct ancestor, squatting in dingy furs, singing songs about the glory of the Saxon tribe, I imagine him as the very first to gather his buddies around the campfire and say "There was this dude named Beowulf..."

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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Sunyavadin » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:26 am

Also, hey, maybe once stuff is over on Cybertron, Hot Rod could do what he did in Regen?

Drop by Bumblebee's place, and steal his half of the Matrix.

Bingo! New map!
bumblemusprime wrote:
When I picture Simon Furman's direct ancestor, squatting in dingy furs, singing songs about the glory of the Saxon tribe, I imagine him as the very first to gather his buddies around the campfire and say "There was this dude named Beowulf..."

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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Mr_Tigg » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:03 pm

A little late to the party but wotevs.

Epic issue. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thought Roberts did a marvellous job of tying it all together - I could sense a danger of falling into the Furman's Revelations trap where everything felt a little rushed.

Cyclonus - wow! He and Whirl are fast becoming my favourite comic TFs. Roberts has brought a whole new dimension to the character.

As for Milne's art - incredible stuff, the guy is nigh-on-untouchable right now. The worms-eye view of Cyclonus peggin' it to the Medibay simply oozes personality.

My only gripe is that the prose text at the end should've been a comic issue in itself. The disappearance of Tyrest's body and the implications in itself would've made a brilliant cliffhanger.

So what's my top 10 wishlist for future MTMTE? I'm glad you asked

1) DJD vs. Overlord vs. Drift vs. Duly Appointed Officer of Tyrest Accord FORT MAX!
2) More flashbacks / cybertronian history penned by Roberts
3) Scavengers vs. Lost Light
4) More 'B-list' characters (like Hoist) to step into the spotlight
5) Less stand-in artists (unless it's Roche). Stick with Milne
6) The Lost Light to abduct Ironhide & Wheeljack from RID so Roberts can write them properly
7) Rodimus to get his comeuppance
8) Some more villain action from Star Saber & Pharma
9) Brainstorm to build an Autobot phase sixer
10) More Decepticon skulduggery! There was a worrying lack of them throughout MTMTE - most the villains are traitor autobots.

Dark Cybertron has a lot to live up to - if Barber and Roberts are working together than Barber has to seriously lift his game. I don't wanna see MTMTE dragged down.

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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Auntie Slag » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:17 pm

Don't forget the Scavengers or The Lost Light bumping into Impactor and Guzzle!

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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Hound » Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:11 pm

To be fair - I think Milne can't do every issue. He needs a break every now and then and his issues are so full of detail, it must take ages. In fact I'm impressed he's been as regular as he is.
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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Sunyavadin » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:32 pm

Hound wrote: his issues are so full of detail, it must take ages. In fact I'm impressed he's been as regular as he is.
I seem to recall being one of the only ones defending Milne's art back in the day when everyone criticised his work for having TOO much going on.
bumblemusprime wrote:
When I picture Simon Furman's direct ancestor, squatting in dingy furs, singing songs about the glory of the Saxon tribe, I imagine him as the very first to gather his buddies around the campfire and say "There was this dude named Beowulf..."

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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Hound » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:00 pm

Sunyavadin wrote:
Hound wrote: his issues are so full of detail, it must take ages. In fact I'm impressed he's been as regular as he is.
I seem to recall being one of the only ones defending Milne's art back in the day when everyone criticised his work for having TOO much going on.
It did. I don't know whether it's the inking (I think he does his own) or the colouring or the influence of Roche's style (which he has more or less adopted from issue 1), but his work is so much better now.

Compare any of his MTMTE work to Megatron Origins. Even the Drift solo. It's miles ahead
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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by bumblemusprime » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:58 am

It looks like he tried to keep his detail but achieve greater dynamism by simplifying the structure of the drawings. I think it's perfect now. EJ was going along a similar route before he disappeared. :(

I read this all together last night and very much enjoyed it, without the reservations I had when I read the initial issue. Edit:

Amazed by Cyclonus, not just in terms of character growth, but in terms of art. I love the quasi-samurai look Milne gives him, and some of the shots here are fantastic badass--I'm torn between whether my favorite shot is Cyc with the sword, approaching Star Saber, or Cyc stabbing Tailgate. Either way, this is a good guy to give a magic sword to.

So I wonder how Pharma's magic lab will figure into Dark Cybertron, or whether the .1 percenter will be able to help heal the wasted psycho land.
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Yaya » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:33 am

I thought it was well done for sure (as always), but as a closing issue to a highly anticipated arc, I didn't really feel it like you guys did. What I mean is, the issues leading up to this I feel were actually more epic and I enjoyed them more. So this was kind of a step down for me. Sometimes, the '**** hits the fan' issue becomes more plot-driven than character-driven, which is only natural when you want to tie so many things up I guess.

No doubt for me Cyclonus stole the show, which I didn't see coming. Fell for the Cyclonus pushing Whirl of the cliff moment and, like Bumblebeemus, was actually hoping it was true. Whirl's had a good run as a character, but the moment he sealed that door shut and was willing to let Rewind and Cyclonus get blasted to smithereens was the moment I pretty much felt I've had enough of the guy. On the flip side, it certainly added an even more noble element to Cyclonus. He's more Autobot it seems then Decepticon. With Whirl, it's the opposite almost.

Didn't like Dai Atlas' quick demise. Thought there would be more to him than that. Star Saber's only been in this thing like for six panels and I hate him already. You can tell the guy's a real douche. Glad he survived. He looks cool and he's the kind of villian you just love to hate on.

Thought Tailgate was going to end up in the Magnus suit, but in the end, I'm glad it's Ambus, who I guess is the 'real' Ultra Magnus. Fort Max being the newly appointed chief justice makes absolutely no sense. Dude just went ballistic and is psychologically scarred, yet is given quite the influential position. Another Rodimus mistake? Guess we'll find out.

Prowl has his dirty fingers everywhere, doesn't he? Love that guy.

So in the end, Tyrest and Pharma are defeated and their bodies 'taken', Star Saber mysteriously disappears, Dai Atlas dies, Tailgate is saved by Cyclonus, and the bots who are constructed cold are saved by, I guess, Perceptor's genius. Nice wrap up.
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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Sunyavadin » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:58 am

Yeah, I guess, you still see his awesome detail work in the larger panels and spreads. But not where it would impede focus on the characters, yeah?
bumblemusprime wrote:
When I picture Simon Furman's direct ancestor, squatting in dingy furs, singing songs about the glory of the Saxon tribe, I imagine him as the very first to gather his buddies around the campfire and say "There was this dude named Beowulf..."

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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by bumblemusprime » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:48 am

So I did not, and I mean really did not, read the Drift series. Like, emphasis on Not. But now I'm assuming that Roberts is actually following up on stuff that happened in said miniseries. Star Saber did appear, yes? I know Dai Atlas and the Circle played a big part.

I guess I can always hit the Wiki. But I'm going to leave this post up anyway. Mock away.
Best First wrote:I didn't like it. They don't have mums, or dads, or children. And they turn into stuff. And they don't eat Monster Munch or watch Xena: Warrior Princess. Or do one big poo in the morning and another one in the afternoon. I bet they weren't even excited by and then subsequently disappointed by Star Wars Prequels. Or have a glass full of spare change near their beds. That they don't have.

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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Best First » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:30 am

Also late to the party - was on holiday last week so paid a shed load to download this via international data rates - totally worth it.

To be honest i think literally the only problem with MTMTE is the solicitations:

Issue 15 promised a massacre, all out war and death in the ranks.

Issue 21: ENDGAME! A handful of heroes stand in the way of a tyrant with the power to destroy AUTOBOTS and DECEPTICONS alike. But what if stopping him carries an even higher price? Get ready to say goodbye to some old friends as More Than Meets The Eye delivers on two years’ worth of promises.

I think these are written in a way that suggest some major character offage, so when it doesn't happen i think its not unreasonable for some people to be dissapointed.

Personally though i was over the moon with this issue - i was overjoyed Whirl wasn't killed (or Magnus for that matter) - and the whole thing felt like... just a really good old school team comic - the final scene warmed the heart.

Milne's art is in a different place now - i think what is key is, apart from the aping of Roach - is where he applies the detail - before it seemed to be indiscriminate, now he knows where to go heavy and where to keep it simple (EJ was always good at this). In additon there is a senior-ish use of solid blackes which i much, much prefer to the try too hard ooh arent't i good with photosho gradient shading we often get. He deserves real credit for the evolution of his style - he is in danger of becoming my second favourite TF artist ever.

Things that are on my mind:
- why did Roddy need to be attached to the matrix?
- is it me or do Rung and Kaon look veeeeeery similar? We don't know what rung turns into do we?

Things that blew my mind:
- Tailgates age!

Basically this comic is teh best thing ever and i hope... it never ends!
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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Computron » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:42 pm

[quote="Best First" it never ends![/quote]

I see what you did there... :swirly:

I just wanted to support bumblemusprime's point on Cyclonus. I too think his art is just phenomenal and steals the show. I love the shot of him approaching Star Sabre and it looks like Cyclonus just walked out of a Kurosawa film. It's just epic and I want to buy the whole team a beer.

And then I want them to make a toy based off MTMTE Cyclonus. With his new greatsword. Who am I kidding, I want a toy for every MTMTE crew member...

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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Auntie Slag » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:44 pm

What was the significance of the bit Cyclonus picked up on when he said to Tailgate; "Hang on, you were born in Rivet's Field... and that was two weeks before Ark 1 took off".

Was that to imply there's no way Tailgate would even have been a fourth class chicken soup dispenser on Ark 1 if he was the equivalent of a newborn at the time? Ratchet looked at Tailgate's insides back in the second issue and declared him a timepiece.

Cyclonus must be similarly comprised of blue tack, toilet rolls and pritt stick.

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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Hound » Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:42 pm

Wasn't it implied that Tailgate was only ancient inside as he never had an opportunity to 'upgrade', whereas other TFs swap bits and pieces throughout their lives?
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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Auntie Slag » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:08 am

Ah that's a good point. This happened in Eugenesis didn't it? Where Roberts made a point of Nightbeat being different in that he stayed all original, pock marks, damaged decals an' all. I didn't stop to think the same logic would apply to MTMTE.

Now Rung was mint when Ratchet examined him. Also, Ratchet was a bit gobsmacked that Rung was able to self-cauterize his snapped arm and generally being in such good shape after x million years. Added to that Rung survived getting his head blown off and I'm sure Ratchet must by now know a lot more about Rung than he's letting on. If he knew about Magnus' identity and didn't let on, he must similarly know about Rung.

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Re: MTMTE 21 - SPOILERS!

Post by Computron » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:48 pm

Auntie Slag wrote:What was the significance of the bit Cyclonus picked up on when he said to Tailgate; "Hang on, you were born in Rivet's Field... and that was two weeks before Ark 1 took off".
I took it as Cyclonus realizing that pretty much all of Tailgate's "conscious" life has been on board the Lost Light. Kind of a tragedy compouding a tragedy. Tailgate is unconscious for 99% of his life and then appears about ready to die as soon as he awakes. Meanwhile jerkwads like Star Sabre keep on truckin'.

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