Pissin' Poonani wrote:My attempt. I was wondering whether you have to succeed to be damned, or whether just trying counts. Also, how far does this go? Is it blatant things like razors to the wrist, pills down the throat etc, or would ignoring doctors advice and bringing on the heart attack they warned you would happen count as suicide? After all, you've been told that you'll die if you don't, say, change your diet, so if you don't and then you die, is that suicide?
The only thing that can stop you from repenting for any wrong is death itself. Once death comes, there is no return. You are alive and therefore, if you seek forgiveness sincerely, God can forgive. Again, this is the Islamic belief.
Regarding the issue of not following doctors advice, I know that in Islam this is addressed, though I don't know the details of it. If memory serves me, if the end result of not following a doctors advice is certain
death, then yes, it is a major transgression not to take the treatment. However, if the treatment itself has its own inherent risks and dangers, or the treatment is not
a certain thing itself, then one can put faith in God and choose to not take the treatment. There are volumes of exposition on this sort of thing, and to comment further would likely lead me to say something incorrect, so I'll leave it at that. Also, every case must be viewed on an individual basis when applying such laws of Shariah (Islamic jurisprudence).
I was aware of what I was doing -painfully so- yet it was because I was suffering from depression enhanced by my OCD-both of which are mental disorders. So I knew, yet I wasn't in my right mind-how does that work?
In Islam, one has to be a) aware of what they are doing, and b) be of sound mind, i.e., not be provoked by madness, insanity, medications, etc. for suicide to actually happen. For example, if you had an untoward reaction to a medication you took, and were not in full control of your faculties, then you could not be held accountable for your actions or suicide attempt. Again, this is the Islamic viewpoint.
So you're saying He'll forgive suicide under certain circumstances? Say, someone not in their 'right' mind stands a chance, as opposed to these teenagers I've been reading about who form suicide pacts because they think it's all cool and 'children of the night' like?
In the case of the teenagers, certainly in that instance, they are likely to be hellbound by an Islamic standpoint, though God only knows the true state of their mind when they actually committed the act of killing themselves. In regards to whether someone who is not of sound mind standing a chance, it likely depends on the level of awareness one had of what they were doing. Only God knows the true state of ones mind when an attempt is made.
There is only one safe way to approach it. If someone is aware of their actions, specifically in this case the act of killing oneself, the best course of action then is to not do it. One should not bank on the idea that "God knows I'm depressed, so He'll forgive me", because if one has that level of understanding of what's going on, and can think about the situation on that level, then likely God will not forgive someone for ending the life He gave. Again, God only knows, and each case is different. But I would implore you to seek every option available to you, because as bad as depression is, punishment in the hereafter is far worse. Again, the Islamic teaching.
Unfortunately, despair tends to eat up patience and perseverence and spit them back out again.
No doubt, clinical depression is a major illness that can truly impact all facets of ones life. And sometimes, a patient is hit with a double whammy. They get cancer and then go into major depression.
So, what if I'd been in an accident and prior to that I'd signed a 'Do Not Ressucitate' order? If I was in such a state that I'd never wake up, or wouldn't be able to live without the aid of machinery, or that I'd be in terrible pain for the rest of my life, would it still be considered suicide? Is your God the kind who would see me in agony yet still insist that I endure it, just because He gave me a gift and He'd feel slighted if I no longer wanted it, because that gift was causing me pain? If He loves me, why would He do that? Why not end my pain for me-either with the release of death, or by healing me?
Yeah, you're getting into deep stuff now.
Anyway, if the best efforts have been made at resuscitation and they have failed, and the only thing that is keeping someone alive is a machine, then according to the Islamic teaching, scholars have agreed that pulling the plug is permitted. Again, that's provided
the best, reasonable efforts
have been made and a qualified
physician has in his expert opinion stated that chances are that one will never recover after this attempt at revival has been made, then pulling the plug is allowed at that point.
or that I'd be in terrible pain for the rest of my life, would it still be considered suicide? Is your God the kind who would see me in agony yet still insist that I endure it, just because He gave me a gift and He'd feel slighted if I no longer wanted it, because that gift was causing me pain? If He loves me, why would He do that? Why not end my pain for me-either with the release of death, or by healing me?
In order to understand the Islamic standpoint on this, one has to go back to what happens to those who commit sins and transgressions against God, themselves and others.
Justice is the most important feature of Islam. Justice between ourselves. Justice to animals and other creatures. Justice between ourselves and our Creator. When we die, everything we ever did to anyone or ourselves is known, and we face justice for this. There is no escape except seeking forgiveness, which most of us are apt to not do.
With this in mind, then we have reward and punishment. For our good acts, God can choose to reward us with good in this life, or a far better reward in the next life. With our bad deeds, He can punish us in this life, or punish us far, far worse in the next.
So if we have to face justice, we would prefer the good
of the next
life, and the bad
This leads us into pain and suffering in this life. Sometimes pain and suffering are a Mercy from God. How? Because we all must face justice for things we did without repentence (which includes all of us), the suffering we would face in the next life is unimaginable in comparison to what pain we experience here and now. In other words, pain and suffering can be a cleansing. One might ask, why punish at all? Because in Islam, though God is loving and forgiving to those who seek Him out, still, all of us must face justice in one form or another.
This is how I look at the pain and adversity I experience in this life now. I don't like pain, I hate it. But I have to remember that with every hardship I face now, a hardship is taken away from me in the time I will experience in the hereafter.
In this sense, pain and suffering can actually be good things for us. Certainly, if we take just a worldly view, pain and suffering can only be bad things. But as a believer in God and a follower in God, a Muslim thinks differently about these things.
The same can be said of good things, or rewards, as well. It may be that God has chosen that we receive all the reward for our good actions now, and none later.
This is why measuring one's worldy gains and losses does not give us a fair estimate of our standing with our Creator. A rich man can be hellbound, and poor man bound for Paradise. A healthy man or women can be hellbound, and the sick man so cleansed that he or she will have nothing but good, an eternal good, in the hereafter.
I will end by reiterating that this is the Islamic belief which I fully believe in. Others will have their own ideas and beliefs. But this is mine.
"But the Costa story featuring Starscream? Fantastic! This guy is "The One", I just know it, just from these few pages. "--Yaya, who is never wrong.