Character discussion : This Week 'Starscream'

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Character discussion : This Week 'Starscream'

Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue May 10, 2005 12:37 am

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StarScream, Overated arogant Con out of his depth?
Worthy Decepticon leader
Evil?
Starscream must rank as one of the most famous Decepticons, in both comic and cartoon formats he was deadly and twisted.
Just why did megs keep him alive? must have been worth it?

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Post by Shanti418 » Tue May 10, 2005 5:05 am

Starscream is a one dimensional character.

In terms of contenders to the Decepticon throne, Starscream is the passion, and Shockwave is the logic.

Starscream is a sucker for getting caught in storylines where he gets a whole buttload of power.

Starscream owes a lot of his popularity to the fact that he's decieving and self serving, which is a fascinating observation.

Starscream also owers a lot of his popularity to the fact that his name is cool.

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Post by Metal Vendetta » Tue May 10, 2005 5:41 am

I think Furman got Starscream just right in AoW - he's a completely ruthless cold-blooded bastard, then snivelling again when Megs puts him in with the piranhas...Which is what happens every time with Starscream - he gets some power, tries to kill everyone, then has to plead for his life when it all goes a bit tits-up.

I'd actually like to see him in charge for a while...no, wait, that happened in the DW ongoing, didn't it? Scratch that.
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Post by BB Shockwave » Tue May 10, 2005 7:03 am

I think "Stargazing" pretty much sums up Screamer - behind all the power-hungry-betraying-everyone-psycho he's just a small-timer caught in the middle of a huge war.

I think Screamer would never be a good leader - he has good ideas but his ego is even bigger then Megatron's. He made a good duumvirate with Soundwave in Earthforce, though.

Cartoon SS was a laugh... unlike in the comics, there was no reason why Megs kept him alive.

In G2 Screamer was really in element. I wonder what would have happened afterwards - I mean giving the rheanium to Prime was really out of character for him, maybe the Matrix did cause some personality changes in him?
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Post by jboyler » Tue May 10, 2005 7:34 am

The only reason Megatron would keep Starscream alive is because Starscream amuses him. Megs, in his blind arrogance, believes he will always have the last laugh and he must get some twisted pleasure out of how pathetic Starscream is and laughs at his pitifully misplaced obsession.

What kind of conditions create a person that desperate for power? Why doesn't he have anything better to put his mind to? Did he not get enough hugs as a child?

You can say what you want about Starscream's evil, and his ambition, and his ceaseless treachery, but the truth is that he just has a miserable little shot-up ego.

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Post by spiderfrommars » Tue May 10, 2005 9:28 am

Starscream is one of my favourite characters and I don't care who knows it!

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Post by Brendocon » Tue May 10, 2005 9:38 am

Cartoon Starscream was an idiot.

Let's look at his actions in The Movie, shall we?

Desperate as ever to be taken seriously and seize power, he sees Megatron fall fighting Prime. Now, he is aware that this battle has been going on about a day (rough guess) and many Autobots are dead, whilst the Decepticons have sustained no actual fatalities.

Factor into this that he's just seen the glorious Autobot cavalry charge fall flat on its face, you'd think this would be the perfect opportunity for him to take the initiative. Build on what's already been done, finish off Prime and lead the Decepticon forces to a glorious victory, whilst Megatron dies a hero on the sidelines.

Megs is out of the picture, the Decepticons win, Starscream gets the glory and becomes leader on his own merits.

Everyone's a winner. Brilliant and simple plan, right?

So what does he do? He seizes command... and tells everybody to scarper.

Idiot!
Grrr. Argh.

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Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Tue May 10, 2005 10:49 am

you gotta love his single minded attitude?

Areospace commander?
He was pretty trick in his plain mode tho, cant have been all bad!
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Post by Bouncelot » Tue May 10, 2005 12:03 pm

He was just a missile with a mouth.

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Post by Best First » Tue May 10, 2005 1:13 pm

best quote ever.
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Post by anna » Tue May 10, 2005 1:48 pm

ill say one thing for "screamer" he has a waaay better transform the megatron(as well as a better voice) i almost didnt want megatron cause theres not much you can do with a gun but a cool f-15 that i like thogh one thing that sucks about starscream is his power skywarp can teleport,thundercraker creates sonic booms,soundwaves picks up eletrical impulses,ravage can blend in with his souroundings,rumble causes earthquakes,frenzy makes you dizzy,laserbeak shoots lasers out of his eyes and buzzsaw has a sharp beak he can cut things megartron can draw power from energy sourses(like a black hole) but starscream can fly into the stratoshere and dive down really fast??? im sorry thats kinda worthless when you think about it
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Post by Metal Vendetta » Tue May 10, 2005 6:51 pm

NULL RAY!!! He as a gun that...er...makes things not work.

And an indestructible spark, though that's more of a retcon...
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Post by Stormwolf » Tue May 10, 2005 7:33 pm

BB Shockwave wrote:I think "Stargazing" pretty much sums up Screamer - behind all the power-hungry-betraying-everyone-psycho he's just a small-timer caught in the middle of a huge war.

I think Screamer would never be a good leader - he has good ideas but his ego is even bigger then Megatron's. He made a good duumvirate with Soundwave in Earthforce, though.

Cartoon SS was a laugh... unlike in the comics, there was no reason why Megs kept him alive.

In G2 Screamer was really in element. I wonder what would have happened afterwards - I mean giving the rheanium to Prime was really out of character for him, maybe the Matrix did cause some personality changes in him?


I pretty much agree with all of this :idea:
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Post by Autobloke » Tue May 10, 2005 11:32 pm

Best whiney character ever!
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Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Wed May 11, 2005 12:15 am

does anyone think he actually had the brains to lead the Cons tho?
Or were all his endevours for his own self worth?

Out of interest how hard do ppl think he is?
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Post by Warcry » Wed May 11, 2005 4:23 am

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:does anyone think he actually had the brains to lead the Cons tho?

I think he did, but the Decepticons were never more than a distant second in terms of his priorities. Because...

Or were all his endevours for his own self worth?

...this is pretty much the crux of things. If Starscream was in command of the Decepticons, he'd be an evil version of King Grimlock. His ego and vanity would be what was directing Decepticon military strategy, not sound tactical thinking.

Out of interest how hard do ppl think he is?

As far as the comic goes, he's nowhere near the same level as the main leader characters. He's probably not up there in the same tier as Cyclonus, Bludgeon or Grimlock either. More likely, I'd classify him alongside Spinister or Prowl...not to be trifled with, but not able to defeat an enemy army singlehandedly either.

Cartoon Screamer was a bit higher up the food chain, a bit more powerful than Scourge but weaker than Cyclonus. At least, that's the impression I got.

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Post by KingMob » Wed May 11, 2005 7:23 am

The 'evil King Grimlock' sounds about right, but perhaps Starscream would be 'better' in the sense that he can be, as someone said, quite an ideas man; and has the (various iterations display these qualities) passion, psychopathic drive and/or arrogance to push things through.
With a good second,I feel he could do well for a time, but he would never be able to stay Decepticon leader for very long.
Leaving aside competence, I'm afraid that I reckon he's simply not scary enough, eventually alienates everyone and inspires no-one.

It's funny, he spends so much time and effort trying to be top dog, and you hardly ever get the impression he actually cares that much about 'The Decepticon Cause'.
Everything is a means to an end with him, and I may be totally out with this, but I get a funny feeling that deep down, Starscream couldn't actually name what he ultimately wanted. Even if by a stroke of macguffin magic, all the Autobots all died at once, as did all other potential 'Con commanders and he became uncontested Boss and could lord it over everyone, perform any villainy he wanted....I get the feeling he'd get bored after about 10 minutes.

As for hardness, well he does seem to be one of those characters that if you get a good solid hit in that hurts him, he'll go to pieces. Which isn't really that great, is it. I also to have to agree that he's probably one of those 'third-tier' types who are quite deadly to ordinary plebs and who could even be put up against 'second-tier' people on a good day (element of surprise etc) but can't really be expected to handle the 'bigger' characters and win.
Especially when he'd probably chicken out unless the odds were ridiculously weighted in his favour.


Is it fair (or even accurate) to say that he's a complete psychopath?

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Post by jboyler » Wed May 11, 2005 10:20 am

does anyone think he actually had the brains to lead the Cons tho?


Nope.


Or were all his endevours for his own self worth?


Yup.

Out of interest how hard do ppl think he is?


Starscream only stands a chance when he has some sort of advantage, such as when he stabs someone in the back by surprise. Other than that, you might as well slap wings on an empty beer can. Crunch!

KingMob wrote: Even if by a stroke of macguffin magic, all the Autobots all died at once, as did all other potential 'Con commanders and he became uncontested Boss and could lord it over everyone, perform any villainy he wanted....I get the feeling he'd get bored after about 10 minutes.


I agree with this very much. Go check out Marvel's graphic novel, "Loki." Those two have much in common.


Is it fair (or even accurate) to say that he's a complete psychopath?


Let's see. The DSM-IV (the nation's psychiatric handbook) defines Antisocial Personality Disorder as:

1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest

2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure

3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead

4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults

5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others

6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations

7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

So yeah, I think Starscream fits this definition perfectly.

-J

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Combaticons

Post by Terome » Wed May 11, 2005 3:00 pm

I agree with the 'beer can with wings' thing... he's fast and skillful, but he probably can't actually fight in the usual Transformer sense...

But then in G2 it's implied that he did take out all five Combaticons on his own in robot mode, with very little space for him to be a hot shot jet man...

And he is immortal. That would was another fun plot point that Dreamwave missed out on - Megatron could have attacked Starscream with every intent to kill him outright... but he just wouldn't die...

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Post by Best First » Wed May 11, 2005 3:39 pm

Stargazing seems to imply starscream is pretty handy in a fight, as does Fallen Star's flashback's.

What he is not however, is brave so its hard to tell how he would fare in any situation other than one where he is realtively asured of victory.
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Post by Autobloke » Wed May 11, 2005 6:46 pm

jboyler wrote:1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest

2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure

3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead

4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults

5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others

6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations

7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.

You just listed my best qualities.
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And didn't Brawn kick Starscream's ass in an early UK marvel story? I mean: BRAWN. That'd be embarrassing. Especially as it was the straight-leg, club-hand version of Brawn too. With one eye.
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Post by Guest » Wed May 11, 2005 7:17 pm

Autobloke wrote:And didn't Brawn kick Starscream's ass in an early UK marvel story? I mean: BRAWN. That'd be embarrassing. Especially as it was the straight-leg, club-hand version of Brawn too. With one eye.


No.

Starscream had BRAWN on the ropes, but Mirage made a dummy BRAWN that SS destroyed. Then Ravage got his revenge on SS and blamed it on Mirage.

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Post by Autobloke » Wed May 11, 2005 7:19 pm

Ah, okay - it WAS a long time ago. My old man memory fails me sometimes.

We should see more match-ups like that though.
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Post by Metal Vendetta » Wed May 11, 2005 9:50 pm

Everyone's going to slate me for this but I thought that the Sunstorm saga had Starscream's character nailed perfectly, particularly in #4 when he frees the captive Sunstorm to save his own hide, though the G2-esque saving Bumblebee's life for no particular reason in #6 rankles a little bit.
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Re: Combaticons

Post by Warcry » Thu May 12, 2005 5:18 am

Terome wrote:But then in G2 it's implied that he did take out all five Combaticons on his own in robot mode, with very little space for him to be a hot shot jet man...

I actually assumed that he had a massive army of generic G2ers with him. Screamer really isn't the type of guy to heroically charge in solo to take out the enemy, after all...

And if he did...well, there's a good chance that the Combaticons didn't know about his defection (Prime and Megs only figured it out seconds before Jhiaxus launched his attack, IIRC), so they'd have no reason to attack him. In that situation, Screamer could have shot them in the face with his null rays before they could react, and that would be the end of that.

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Post by spiderfrommars » Fri May 13, 2005 10:32 am

Rebis wrote:
Autobloke wrote:And didn't Brawn kick Starscream's ass in an early UK marvel story? I mean: BRAWN. That'd be embarrassing. Especially as it was the straight-leg, club-hand version of Brawn too. With one eye.


No.

Starscream had BRAWN on the ropes, but Mirage made a dummy BRAWN that SS destroyed. Then Ravage got his revenge on SS and blamed it on Mirage.


Hmmm, Screamer always had the upper hand tho.

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Post by KingMob » Fri May 13, 2005 11:23 am

Poor Brawn didn't even have any hands. :(

Just those....things.

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Dreamwave comic in good characterisation shock

Post by Terome » Fri May 13, 2005 12:01 pm

I've got to agree with Metal Vendetta here and say that Starscream was a far better character in Dreamwave G1 than he was in, say, The War Within...

Maybe I should go and hide now.

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Post by Metal Vendetta » Fri May 13, 2005 5:48 pm

I thought Starscream was weak in WWI and WWII, though his appearance in AoW#1 was sheer brilliance. Taking out the council, he was just ruthlessness personified.
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Post by Autobloke » Fri May 13, 2005 9:32 pm

What happened to Starscream's Pretender shell? Did it get destroyed? He was pretty powerful even without it in that story where he attacked Scorponok - even if he was a bit brainwashed. Perhaps it's mind over matter - if only Starscream had more confidence in his abilities when things go a bit wrong, he'd be a formidable foe. It was his cowardly nature that defeated him there.
Also, did anyone buy him when he was doubting himself just after that story? (no jokes about purchasing Starscream either)

And maybe Brawn should be the next character discussed. I mean, it's okay to contemplate more developed TFs, but what do we really know about those lesser-known characters? Except 'less', of course.
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